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#1 08-02-09 17:08:19

Makem Drive
Verified Member
Registered: 27-06-08
Posts: 197

Solid White Lines

What is the legal status of the single solid white line along the carridgeway (is it an offence to cross one)?

The ones I mean are either normal or double width lines and are sometimes used as lane dividers for example on a long 2 lane on-slip running parallel for 1/2 mile or so with the main DC/motorway, as a priority lane through a RBT (to the left or ahead if no left exit) or at a merge of 2 DCs/motorways.

I know that they are there as 'no cross' (stay in lane) markings and that you should (must?) not cross them but I can't find any reference to them in the HC or KYTS. The only references to this type of marker is to separate normal traffic from a bus/cycle lane & edge of carridgeway marker. I believe the offence is for driving in a bus lane rather than crossing the line to get in to it.

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08-02-09 17:08:19

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Re: Solid White Lines




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#2 08-02-09 17:49:34

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

No offence makem, but it is exactly questions like this that relate to the points about quality of training given to PDI's.


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#3 08-02-09 17:57:17

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,597

Re: Solid White Lines

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#4 08-02-09 18:00:32

bobbycat
Verified Member
From: chesterfield
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 216

Re: Solid White Lines

VandADI, your reponse is a little more helpful than the previous response!!!   :x

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#5 08-02-09 18:05:58

evanadi
Guest

Re: Solid White Lines

Hi bobbycat, Tony is not directing his annoyance at you, more at the training people are given when learning to drive. Is it any wonder there are so many accidents. Ev

#6 08-02-09 18:08:56

bobbycat
Verified Member
From: chesterfield
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 216

Re: Solid White Lines

Evan i appreciate what you are saying but the guy has asked a question and Tonys response in know way helps him answer it.

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#7 08-02-09 18:09:21

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Solid White Lines

Well thank goodness for places such as this forum then where those who are willing to bother bettering themselves can come for ermmm help  neutral

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#8 08-02-09 18:16:09

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113au.gif

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113av.gif

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bv.gif

Click on the image to zoom in so you can read it.

OK I'll do your trainers job for him. What the hell you paying him for though.

Odd that people prefer to have a go at me rather than answer the question. Take it you do all know the answer?


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#9 08-02-09 18:16:32

evanadi
Guest

Re: Solid White Lines

I will let Tony answer for himself, I know where he is coming from as does Luchell above. Ev

#10 08-02-09 18:18:06

bobbycat
Verified Member
From: chesterfield
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 216

Re: Solid White Lines

Tony much more helpful.  big_smile

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#11 08-02-09 18:23:07

DampDog
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire.
Registered: 04-02-06
Posts: 1,538

Re: Solid White Lines

Something that sometimes gets forgotten is that "Double whites" also have parking/waiting restrictions attached.

240You MUST NOT stop or park on

A road marked with double white lines, except to pick up or set down passengers


ADI (car)
1st CT (5)

I used to be a compleat idiot, until some bits fell off...

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#12 08-02-09 18:31:54

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

Sick to death of people wittering on about how wonderful their training is when their trainers can't even teach them what the edge of the !!!!!!!! carriageway look like.

Where do we draw the line between helping people and doing their trainers job for them. I really do find some of the questions asked on this forum, raise serious doubts about a lot of trainers.

As I said makem, no offence. Sometimes my frustration gets the better of me.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#13 08-02-09 18:51:21

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Solid White Lines

Some of us I'm sure get pupils on a forum from time to time and they might ask what some regards as a basic question/daft or whatever else. That may not mean we haven't taught it to them, on the other hand that may be exactly the problem. I'm just putting a thought forward is all.

I appreciate you may find it frustrating at times Tony, as must all of us at some point or another when dealing with a topic that might be particularly close to our own heart for whatever reason, but this forum is here to help not to make people potentially feel they are idiots or ridicule them (even if thats not the direct intent)  for asking about something that they may or may not have been told/taught. From time to time there will always be unusual/odd/obvious to some/ridiculous and perfectly sensible topics.

Deep breathe, bottle of whiskey/vodka/gin....... Or can of orange tango as in my case  lol lol

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#14 08-02-09 20:01:37

Makem Drive
Verified Member
Registered: 27-06-08
Posts: 197

Re: Solid White Lines

Tony ADI. Did you actually read the post?

Of course I know what the edge of carriageway lines look like & I also know about the double solid, 1 solid & 1 broken white lines mean.

I am talking about the SINGLE UNBROKEN white line that is often used between lanes (in the same direction) which can either be normal width or double width BUT STILL A SINGLE LINE. It is normally used to stop lane changing. These are not shown in the HC or KYTS. The bus lane & cycle lane markings are shown and these are not to be crossed (except under certain circumstances).

I asked what is the legal status (is it an offence to cross one)? I.E. can you get fined for crossing it.

Showing the makeup of a TOTALLY DIFFERENT type of line (edge of carrageway) is not doing my trainers job for him is it?

I believe the offence is for driving in a bus lane rather than crossing the line to get in to it.

I made this comment because it is legal to cross the white line to move into a bus lane under certain circumstances as it is to cross the cycle lane divider & edge of carriageway line.

To reply as you did in your first post then, when it was pointed out your reply was less the helpful, respond by giving information that was not asked then go on yet again to question the quality of training PDIs (and me in particular) receive seem to suggest you have a problem with me and/or the content of tmy posts.

I asked a question about the legality or something that is not in the HC or KNTS. but has been in common use on our roads for years now. I deal with them & teach pupils how to deal with them correctly. I see many driver who don't & that is why I asked CAN THEY BE FINED.

As for the information VandADI provided, I am fully aware of this information but as I said it doesn't cover the lines I am describing but at least it was offered in a more helpful way.

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#15 08-02-09 21:25:19

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Solid White Lines

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc … 1&t=k&z=19


For clarification I believe this is similar to what Makem is referring to, this is one of our main roundabouts on use on many of our routes. See Kevins post below for explaination as he's writing it as I put this  lol

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#16 08-02-09 21:29:56

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Solid White Lines

Seems pretty clear.. From HC

Areas of ***white diagonal stripes or chevrons *** painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
if the area is marked with chevrons and *** bordered by solid white lines *** you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

[Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9, 10 & 16, MT(S)R regs 4, 8, 9 & 14, RTA sect 36 & TSRGD 10(1)]

So you dont cross it and it is a *MUST NOT* if thats what the original question is about.

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#17 08-02-09 21:40:10

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Solid White Lines

Perhaps I'm getting confused but I thought it was the single solid white line that we were talking about not solid white lines surrounding chevrons  neutral

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#18 08-02-09 21:44:52

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

Hi Makem

Still confused as to what you are asking but solid white lines are simple.

Any can be crossed if safe and necessary unless the line forms the border of a Chevroned area (NOT HATCHED!). (Unless of course its the middle of the road white line system for opposing traffic, which must be preceeded by one or more white arrows to be legal.


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#19 08-02-09 21:50:16

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

I am talking about the SINGLE UNBROKEN white line that is often used between lanes (in the same direction) which can either be normal width or double width BUT STILL A SINGLE LINE.


A single white line is the edge of the carriageway. TWO SEPERATE CARRIAGEWAYS CAN RUN IN THE SAME DIRECTION. They often do for a short period of time.


Yes I did read your post, seems like some others didn't.




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#20 08-02-09 21:54:27

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Solid White Lines

"Perhaps I'm getting confused but I thought it was the single solid white line that we were talking about not solid white lines surrounding chevrons"

from that google map i assumed it wasn't that solid white line at the botom that is about 1 mtr wide.. when theyre that wide you know not to cross them whether its legal or not smile

"Yes I did read your post, seems like some others didn't"

Why draw others into this ?? why does everything have to be a fight to prove how little everyone else knows ??

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#21 08-02-09 22:01:25

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

<sigh>

I do not beleive the OP refered to a chevroned area.

What has been described is a solid white line seperating a filter lane from the main carriageway, presumably that terminates further along into  broken white lines.

This kind of road marking does not fall under the White Line System and it's regulations and meanings.

Every link I've seen, and every post I've read so far has not actually answered the OP.

Tony has thoughtfully provided diagrams from RTSRGD, but sadly they are not pertinent to the OP as they are Edge Of Carriageway markings.

The OP has described a SINGLE solid white line, seperating lanes within a single stream of traffic, so the Double White Line regualtions do not apply.

Here's my understanding, and as always, I'm happy to be corrected if someone can provide a regulation number in TSRGD or any other law that relates to SINGLE solid white line Lane Divider.

I beleive what DOES apply is whatever regulations have been included in the Act that was laid down giving permission for such a marking as a single solid white line to be placed at that location. (In other words, a Local Road Act).

Typically, the GENERAL meaning applied will include:

No driver shall allow his vehicle to cross or straddle the solid white line if that line is on his right, except in an emergency, or
to pass a horse, cyclist, stationary vehicle or a road repair vehicle, or
instructed to do so by a police officer in uniform.
No driver shall stop within the area that has such a white line on his right, nor set down or pick up passengers, unless his vehicle is a public service vehicle stopping at an authorised bus stop situated within that zone. (These are extremely rare, although some authorities ARE increasingly permitting such bus stops).

No driver shall cross or straddle the solid white line if that line is on his right, except in an emergency or,
instructed to do so by a police officer in uniform.

I stress, these are the general rules as each location will be governed by whatever meanings are included in the law pertaining to that section of road that authorises such a marking to be used.

Single solid white lines used to seperate lanes in single flows of traffic do not fall under the double white line system nor edge of carriageway markings as contained in TSRGD.
Hence a requirement to have a law governing each usage of the marking.(Local Road Act).

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#22 08-02-09 22:05:43

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Solid White Lines

  roll It was just a brief example, next time i shall measure the lines before putting such a post. The op's question states he knows not to cross it but what was the regulation surrounding it.

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#23 08-02-09 22:07:03

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Solid White Lines

kevin in some areas it is quite common for the chevroned area near a r/b to have the bordering solid line extend beyond the chevrons for some distance.. in other cases the line quickly becomes broken.. in this case it is a solid white line and not a chevron area.. a single solid white line is a single solid white line when it divides lanes like this isnt it ?? how else would anyone determine what sort of single solid white line it is ??

i think were agreed that its best not to cross it arent we  ??

"It was just a brief example, next time i shall measure the lines before putting such a post. The op's question states he knows not to cross it but what was the regulation surrounding it. "

this is geting out of hand.. it doesnt need to.

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#24 08-02-09 22:10:19

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,303

Re: Solid White Lines

hi Kevin
On the M60 at certain junctions all 3 running lanes have solid white line lane dividers extending from, before the onslip or dedicated slip to LH lane starts, to about 400/600 yds past the entry slip etc.

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#25 08-02-09 22:25:52

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Solid White Lines

Gordon bennett!!!!!

They are not lane dividers they are carriageway dividers. If the white line is on your right it is also on the left of the traffic in the other carriageway. It denotes the edge of that carriageway. Note the bits I've coloured from the original post, all these mean seperate carriageways.


The ones I mean are either normal or double width lines and are sometimes used as lane dividers for example on a long 2 lane on-slip running parallel for 1/2 mile or so with the main DC/motorway, a[color=purple]s a priority lane through a RBT (to the left or ahead if no left exit) [/color] or at a merge of 2 DCs/motorways.
I know that they are there as 'no cross' (stay in lane) markings and that you should (must?) not cross them but I can't find any reference to them in the HC or KYTS. The only references to this type of marker is to separate normal traffic from a bus/cycle lane & edge of carridgeway marker. I believe the offence is for driving in a bus lane rather than crossing the line to get in to it.


Where the carriageways split, as in pegasus'e example, there is legislation as to how far the lines must continue, and how soon before they must start.


As to the legality of crossing the edge of the carriageway, it is not in itself illegal to do so.


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