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#1 11-11-08 22:11:01

adi
Verified Member
From: shropshire
Registered: 28-02-04
Posts: 1,231
Website

Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

I have heard from various sources that a persons life expectancy is reduced to 30 mins on the hard shoulder on a UK motorway, and googling even revealing quotes as little as 4 mins!!

Can anybody out there point me in the direction as to the definitive source of this research and how they came up with the figures.

I am aware that such figures don't mean that if you pull over on the hard shoulder you will be dead within such a time, but i would like to understand more as to how the figure is worked out. I have a presentation to do this weekend and i could do with some solid facts!!

Many thanks.

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11-11-08 22:11:01

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Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder




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#2 12-11-08 10:51:45

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

I don't have the stats or facts to hand but i seem to recall that these "stats" were arrived at from the investigations into deaths on the hard shoulder.

The average incident that resulted in death that occurred on the hard shoulder occured within 30 mins of the person arriving on the hard shoulder.

This figure was then used by many of the motoring organisations and was misquoted considerably to " the average life expectancy on the hard shoulder is 30 mins".

That has never been correct, as 1,000's of people have spent time on the hard shoulder without incident, but their time on the hard shoulder was ommitted in averaging the original stats.
The original stats related only to death occurances and how long that person had been on the hard shoulder.
I believe the AA commissioned the original research following several incidents involving their own patrolmen.

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#3 12-11-08 14:01:59

adi
Verified Member
From: shropshire
Registered: 28-02-04
Posts: 1,231
Website

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

Cheers Kevin,
that's good enough for me!
I usually mention this on pass plus too, i will word the quote differently now and will make more sense!

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#4 12-11-08 21:11:48

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

Hi
You probably already mention these precautions to take but just in case.

To increase survival chances, or enhance safety.
1 Try to actually reach an emergency phone if possible.
2 Stop the car downstream (After the phone).
3 When using the emergency phone stand watching the oncoming traffic (Looking upstream) 
4 If there is an armco barrier stand on the otherside of it if possible while using the phone.
5 Wait outside the vehicle, away from the traffic, beyond the armco if there is any.
6 If you can't get to an emergency phone and HAVE to use a mobile, make sure you have an exact location to give the emergency services(Number on the nearest white/blue/red marker post, and do call the emergency services if it is a breakdown rather than just calling your rescue service AA/RAC etc, the police will do that for you.

I'm sure there are more tips but it is harder to think of all of them, on here, than it is when something happens.

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#5 12-11-08 22:06:26

adi
Verified Member
From: shropshire
Registered: 28-02-04
Posts: 1,231
Website

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

Cheers pegasus, i usually have enough material to keep me talking the full length of the M54 and 10 miles of M6 on a pass plus!!! And if that doesn't send em to sleep a short stretch of M42 later in the day usually does it!

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#6 13-11-08 21:37:19

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

Try buying a life insurance policy and tell them thay your job involves mortorway recovery.  I bet the cost won't be much different to a trawlerman.


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#7 03-12-08 14:17:38

Makem Drive
Verified Member
Registered: 27-06-08
Posts: 197

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

There is a 'condition' called 'stationary object fixation' (i think) whereby some people will see an object (car or whatever) and even though it is not in their path they become so obsessed looking at it they alter their course (or don't alter course as the case may be) & hit it. Often they know they are going to hit the object but do nothing to avoid the impact until it is too late.

I one of my sports I have talked to several people who have hit a tree or fence post that was in front of them. When asked if they saw it they say 'yes, I knew I was going to hit it'. Asked why they didn't steer slightly to avoid it they reply 'should I have? I didn't think I could' (or similar).

The point being is that they know what is going to happen but for some unknown reason don't take action to avoid it. Why some actually steer to hit I don't know but it has been suggested that this is because, unless you concentrate, you travel in the direction you are looking.

Those who teach learners to drive will have had experience of this & have to teach them to look (right, left, mirrors etc.) but keep their hands still to steer straight.

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#8 03-12-08 18:31:01

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

That has been cited as a contributing cause of many m/cycle fatalities.

Scenario:

biker leans into a left bend at a speed a little too fast, and is aware that he is going to drift across to the opposite side of the road.

He will quickly scan for anything that will hurt him so he can avoid it.
He spots a lamp post.
He stares at the lamp post.
"Hes now thinking, "That's gonna hurt"
"That's REALLY gonna hurt"
"Oh Mother of Mary, this so WILL hurt"

"Hello, 999? I need assistance, coz that REALLY hurt's".

I was that soldier.

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#9 03-12-08 21:57:26

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

Hi
I have heard of one skid pan where they demonstrate that phenomenon by throwing a wellington boot onto the pan in front of the trainee, usually they hit it and then have to told/taught to look at the escape route, not the obstruction.
Often a car will Tbone a car emerging from the left, albeit at a low speed, because the driver keeps looking at it instead of looking at the junction it has emerged from and trying to turn in towards it and possibly missing it altogether or at worst giving it a glancing blow.

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#10 11-12-08 20:44:46

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

Hi
You probably already mention these precautions to take but just in case.

To increase survival chances, or enhance safety.
1 Try to actually reach an emergency phone if possible.
2 Stop the car downstream (After the phone).
3 When using the emergency phone stand watching the oncoming traffic (Looking upstream) 
4 If there is an armco barrier stand on the otherside of it if possible while using the phone.
5 Wait outside the vehicle, away from the traffic, beyond the armco if there is any.
6 If you can't get to an emergency phone and HAVE to use a mobile, make sure you have an exact location to give the emergency services(Number on the nearest white/blue/red marker post, and do call the emergency services if it is a breakdown rather than just calling your rescue service AA/RAC etc, the police will do that for you.

I'm sure there are more tips but it is harder to think of all of them, on here, than it is when something happens.

And if using your mobile to phone the emergency services dial 112 rather than 999 since this will give them your location via GPS/satellite/triangulation.


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#11 23-12-08 00:47:33

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Life expectancy on the hard shoulder

There is a 'condition' called 'stationary object fixation' (i think) whereby some people will see an object (car or whatever) and even though it is not in their path they become so obsessed looking at it they alter their course (or don't alter course as the case may be) & hit it. Often they know they are going to hit the object but do nothing to avoid the impact until it is too late.

I describe this as being like a magnet. Wether it's an object you are approaching at speed or a stationary car which you are trying to manouvre around.  If you look at ityou are drawn towards it. 


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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