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#1 22-11-08 22:21:32

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Jailed. And also jailed.

Read this terrible story from today's paper:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … 13mph.html

It is a terrible state of affairs when things like this happen on our roads.

The important bit to me is that the guy was also jailed for 5 years. What a fantastic message to send out to people - it's not just the drink driver who can be jailed but also the passengers. I've never heard of this happening before but I support it whole-heartedly.






My heart goes out to the families of the 2 students.




DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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22-11-08 22:21:32

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Re: Jailed. And also jailed.




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#2 22-11-08 23:17:32

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

So much of the claimed evidence in that case just doesn't stack up with me.

I'm not taking away her guilt.

But it was claimed the car was doing 113mph, hit a stationary car  and then 3 people who were stood along the central reservation. (why the father didn't get the car over to the left and then  himself and the 2 youngsters to relative safety to the left of the road instead of loitering on the central reservation is beyond me),

Does that Jag look like it rear ended another car at 113mph to you?
Was the allegded speed even possible when all other traffic (in BOTH lanes) was reduced to 40mph in advance of the break down in lane 2.  Just how fast have you ever known traffic to be able merge on a busy dual carriageway to pass a stricken vehicle?
And yet the car was going 113mph at the point of first impact (striking the stricken car).

The woman is guilty, but has been found guilty on questionable evidence.

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#3 22-11-08 23:56:29

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

The woman is guilty, but has been found guilty on questionable evidence.


People really ought to get their facts right before coming out with such total garbage.

Am sure the relatives of the victims will be deeply touched that a supposed professional ADI would come out with such a statement without even bothering to check the facts of the case  :x :x :x :x

To start with the jag did not hit the other car, but why am I even bothering to tell you when you can't be bothered checking before coming out with such crap.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#4 23-11-08 06:59:36

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

Kev,

Are you talking about the same accident?  The third person was a brother, not a father and there is no mention of them being in the central reservation.  The damage to the Jag suggests (to me) that the main impact was front left which would indicate teh stationary vehicle was on the left.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#5 23-11-08 07:54:14

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

Hi Nigel,
Yes, I apologise, the third victim was the brother not the father.

From the original court case:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop … hears.html

She struck the Ford Fiesta of Mark Crompton, 20, and Jodie Brown, 19, which had broken down near the central reservation of the A1.

Other presented evidence was presented in such a way that could mislead a Jury.
Airbag recorders are not blackboxes in the sense that many understand them to be and they DO NOT record all VITAL evidence for crash investigation purposes. They were never designed for that, and the manufacturers warn of the limits of the data recorded yet the court were not told of this.

As I said earlier, I have no doubt of her guilt, my condolensces also to the victims families.

But I do have reservations in the way the prosecution presented it's case.


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#6 23-11-08 09:59:49

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

So much of the claimed evidence in that case just doesn't stack up with me.

I'm not taking away her guilt.

But it was claimed the car was doing 113mph, hit a stationary car  and then 3 people who were stood along the central reservation. (why the father didn't get the car over to the left and then  himself and the 2 youngsters to relative safety to the left of the road instead of loitering on the central reservation is beyond me),

Does that Jag look like it rear ended another car at 113mph to you?
Was the allegded speed even possible when all other traffic (in BOTH lanes) was reduced to 40mph in advance of the break down in lane 2.  Just how fast have you ever known traffic to be able merge on a busy dual carriageway to pass a stricken vehicle?
And yet the car was going 113mph at the point of first impact (striking the stricken car).

The woman is guilty, but has been found guilty on questionable evidence.

The jag driver lost control after hitting standing water at high speed, the jag was aquaplaning, hit the barrier of the central reservation, glanced off the fiesta, and then struck the people who were walking away and trying to cross the dual carriageway.

There was no report that the jag "rear ended the other car at 113mph".
Witnesses reported the jag driving at high speed, both lanes were not reduced to 40mph. The fiesta had been pulled over out of lane 2 towards the central reservation. It had already aquaplaned and had come to a stop on the central reservation, not in lane 2.
The jag driver and her passenger were not convicted on the basis of the "evidence" of the "black box", that was only a very small part of the evidence presented. The investigating officer had already calculated the speed of the jag to be in excess of 100mph from other evidence, he used the "evidence" from the "black box" as further corroboration.


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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
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#7 23-11-08 12:10:06

DampDog
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire.
Registered: 04-02-06
Posts: 1,538

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

That's pretty much exactly how I read it.

If I'd have been prosecuting I'd have used the "evidence " available to me in the same way. Data recorded when the car hit the couple showed it was still travelling at 113mph and had a throttle setting of 70%. Absolute physical evidence is like 'rocking horse droppings' when compared to witness statements which are always subjective.


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1st CT (5)

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#8 23-11-08 13:26:47

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

Hi

The important bit to me is that the guy was also jailed for 5 years. What a fantastic message to send out to people - it's not just the drink driver who can be jailed but also the passengers. I've never heard of this happening before but I support it whole-heartedly.

I think that this is the important reason why he was also jailed.

John Nichols, 58, who owned the XJ8 saloon and was in the passenger seat,

He knew she was incapable and permitted her to drive or possibly even encouraged her to do so.

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#9 23-11-08 14:29:48

DampDog
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire.
Registered: 04-02-06
Posts: 1,538

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

Of the many reported incidents, many of which the punishment seldom seem to match the gravity of the impact on those injured and their families, this is one of the few that the judicial system appears to have matched the punishment to the crime.


ADI (car)
1st CT (5)

I used to be a compleat idiot, until some bits fell off...

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#10 23-11-08 14:36:52

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

So, I'm going to give all my learners a copy of the article.Then I'm going to tell them obviously not to drink drive. But also, not to get into a car with a drink driver  - as I might end up in jail (not just dead).

Am I bending the truth?
If so, does it matter?


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
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#11 23-11-08 17:34:10

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

So, I'm going to give all my learners a copy of the article.Then I'm going to tell them obviously not to drink drive. But also, not to get into a car with a drink driver  - as I might end up in jail (not just dead).

I'm not so sure that being simply a passenger would make you liable to prosecution.  What made the chap liable to prosecution in this case was the fact that he was the driver's boss and he allowed her to drive his car.

Am I bending the truth?

Yes.

If so, does it matter?

Again, yes.  I think it does matter if you bend or twist the truth.  Where would your credibility be if your pupils realised that you hadn't been totally honest?  Would they then start to doubt everything else you had told them?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#12 25-11-08 17:18:26

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

This is not the first time anyone has been convicted of Aid and Abeit,there is another similar case from Scotland although no death is involved in that one,I think that it should be used a lot more where you can show that the passenger(s) within the car where aware that the driver would be over the drink drive limit and they got in without doing anything to stop him.
I feel then that there would be a lot less people who might think about doing it,but you have to have more than just a passenger,and like these two occassions the cars being driven by the ones who didnt own them had the drivers present in the passenger seat,so,hence the offence of Aid and Abeit being complete.  This would then hopefully make our roads a lot more safer for our motorists to drive on safely,on the other hand extend it to all motoring offences,that would be good wouldnt it.
I bet that suggestion gets shot down quickly as like most people wouldnt want that to happen,and dont let the government hear this as what a revenue generator that would be eh.
Stephen

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#13 25-11-08 17:43:14

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: Jailed. And also jailed.

Hi

author=Stephen7738 link=topic=34724.msg246355#msg246355 date=1227633506]
on the other hand extend it to all motoring offences,that would be good wouldnt it.
I bet that suggestion gets shot down quickly as like most people wouldnt want that to happen,and dont let the government hear this as what a revenue generator that would be eh.
Stephen

This is not a shooting down but I suspect that for "other offences" it would be next to impossible for the passenger to actually prevent the offence, of course if they encouraged it that would be a different matter.
But, how do you prove the encouragement?

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