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#26 10-11-08 19:13:57

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

I love this forum.

If you ACTUALLY READ THE POSTS you learn something new every day.

Have to admit though - I'm kind of put off by that.

Thanks again though Giz, helpful as always.

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10-11-08 19:13:57

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Re: IAM Observer training



#27 10-11-08 20:07:55

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: IAM Observer training

There was talk of civilian trainer's for RoSPA examiners as there is a growing shortage of EX police available to fill this role, not sure if it has been implemented though. yikes

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#28 10-11-08 20:16:09

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

So are all of RoSPA's examiners all cops or ex-cops too?

Is DIAmond the last refuge for anarchist defensive drivers?

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#29 10-11-08 20:30:12

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: IAM Observer training

All the one's i know are Tim. but as i said there was rumours circulating about bringing in civilian trainers.

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#30 10-11-08 20:53:05

Van Man
Verified Member
From: Burton upon Trent
Registered: 12-01-06
Posts: 78

Re: IAM Observer training

yes Giz, this is my understanding also.


DON'T GET ME STARTED.
I'm not doing it wrong,Its just another way of doing it right!
IAM observer

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#31 10-11-08 21:03:35

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: IAM Observer training

yes Giz, this is my understanding also.

Thanks for that, at least somone else knows, but will a certain person listen though wink

Giz

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#32 10-11-08 23:54:15

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

Just a little food for thought before people get too carried way with roadcraft and the standards of police driver training and ex police driver trainers.

How many police cars crash every year? Not talking about those on 999 calls by the way.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#33 11-11-08 02:27:46

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: IAM Observer training

David,
it sounds like you are going to be a good ambassador for the IAM,and make lots of friends,like you are doing on this site.Could you please answer these simple questions for me.
1.When you were preparing for your IAM test which book did you read Roadcraft or PYADT
2.Which part of the country are you from.
3.Which group of the IAM are you with as perhaps your examiner needs to be spoken to.
Gizmotime= a large majority of current IAM examiners are serving traffic officers,with some who are retired.   I would say to anyone who wants to knock the stats for police vehicle collisions whilst under blue light conditions,is if you have never driven under these conditions then you cant possible comment unless you have done it,it is totally different sitting next to someone or sat in a car nearby.  The way I look at it 99% of collisions are through members of public either driving into or walking/running into the path of said vehicle,which says a lot for the standard of teaching at DSA standard these days.  I wont start criticising your proffession enough said,and I am sure David falls into that category as well,this is my opinion which I am entitled to just like everyone else.
Stephen   

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#34 11-11-08 06:40:56

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: IAM Observer training

Hi Stephen,
I stand corrected on that then, thankyou smile

You see even us "oldies" can be mistaken, but also we are big enough to apologise when we are wink

Giz

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#35 11-11-08 07:47:42

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

Will people PLEASE start reading posts properly.

Stephen - Tony WAS NOT querying police crashes under blue lights - he SPECIFICALLY excepted those as they happen under extreme circumstances which as civillians we are not able to comment on.

Not talking about those on 999 calls by the way.

Misreading a post then using it as an excuse to slag off ADIs for the general standard of driving on the roads today is a pretty poor show.

I've been as civil as I can be, but I'm getting annoyed as the standard of communication on this thread is pretty appalling. Discussion kind of relies on people actually reading what is written before responding.

Stephen - you say a "large majority" of IAM examiners are serving or ex police - does this mean that there ARE civillian examiners in the organisation?

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#36 11-11-08 09:34:51

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

Tim, there is a simple test to see if a discussion or thread is worth pursuing. Ask a question which in itself is innoccuous, but has room to be interpreted differently. The content of the reply is immaterial, but how the respondant chooses to interpret it tells you whether or not they are genuinley interested in furthering the discussion, and whether or not they are open to alternative ways of thinking. It can also help determine the level of knowledge held by those you are dealing with, more by what they don't say than what they do say. Rather than taking the time to establish whether or not what they are saying is accurate or not, they will resort to vague unsubstansiated assertions, and attempt to take the discussion in another direction to deflect attention from their lack of knowledge.

In answer to your question (unless things have changed recently) to be an IAMs examiner it is necessary to hold the police advanced certificate. The only exception I know of is The Royal Artillery, who are allowed to train their own examiners in partnership with IAMs.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

12.gif

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#37 11-11-08 10:03:47

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: IAM Observer training

In answer to your question (unless things have changed recently) to be an IAMs examiner it is necessary to hold the police advanced certificate. The only exception I know of is The Royal Artillery, who are allowed to train their own examiners in partnership with IAMs.

tony, That is still correct,

Giz

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#38 11-11-08 11:40:03

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: IAM Observer training

My intention is not to upset anyone or slag off a particular profession ,but the impression i get is that's what everybody is doing to my profession,and my reply was to show people that it is not nice to have someone attack us,it would appear that my replying like i did has touched a nerve in one or two of you.

I do not sit here and try and be someone that I am not,my interest's are in driving and road safety,I apologise that I miss read a post,which in my estimation makes it easier to defend,as the police collision rate outside blue light driving in my force is practically nil,so,i do not know if tony knows any different from figures for a particular part of the country or not.

You are right in saying a little knowledge is dangerous and that is why,we should all stick to the areas of expertise that we are trained in as with a little experience in this field it is dangerous to venture into it with so little.

As for going off topic i have never seen an answer on a forum that has ever stuck 100% to what the question was,this one included.
Stephen   

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#39 11-11-08 12:53:18

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

The way I look at it 99% of collisions are through members of public either driving into or walking/running into the path of said vehicle,which says a lot for the standard of teaching at DSA standard these days.

Hi Stephen,
We all know what the recommended actions of all road users is regarding dealing with blue light vehicles.

Your post seems to suggest that the blame for blue light incidents should rest with the public.

My personal opinion is that it SHOULD, almost without exception, be the responsibility of the blue light driver.

From personal observations, far too many drive beyond their capabilities and that of their vehicles in urban environments. (Look at the repair shop bookings, if the driver was driving according to the conditions then vehicular contact would not be made in the vast majority of cases).

I was at a body shop at the weekend, and the customers' manager pointed out a police car with damaged to the nearside rear wing. He commented on how unusual it was to get a police car in that didnt have front end damage.

I drew my own conclusions regarding the cause of front end damage to the majority of police vehicles entering his workshops.

We also discussed the number of paramedic cars that came in.  He recalled only one in the last few years.

Again, I drew my own conclusions as to why that might be.


Side topic:
Why is this organisation not permitting able individuals to progress to examiner, and reserving such positions for serving/ex police officers?

What is it that members of the public/driving proffession are not equipped with that these police officers are?

It is not as if the candidates are expected to do anything outside of normally permitted lawful practices, so I struggle to appreciate why examiners need to be class 1 police drivers.


Interesting that members of the RA are permitted to become examiners, but not other corps or regiments. Why not MP's or members of MT or any of the driver based corps such as specialist drivers within SAS or Armoured Corps.
I know of several regiments both army and RAF, that are doing snatch training, surely these are more likely candidates for driving based examiner positions then members of the Artillary?

<shrugs> Not much I read regarding these organisations helps me to understand them better , nor to respect them any more than I did 25 years ago. Sadly, that is not a lot.

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#40 11-11-08 13:23:08

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: IAM Observer training

I agree with what you say in relation to the amount of police vehicles that are in repair shops,i put this down to the fact that the individual officers are all trained and trained to a high standard.  And they must have it to pass at the end of the course,the problem that exists that when they drive through the gates of the driving school they seem to forget everything that they have been taught.

Most people when they join the police want to join to specialise in some department,ie CID, Firearms,dogs etc,and part of the job is driving which a lot see as just something they have to do,hence the high collision rate,now officers who want to join traffic have a passion for driving so,take more pride in there day to day driving activities.  I don't know how we will ever overcome this problem,but it exists and i think will always exist due to these reasons.

As for IAM examiners well thats a different story I know for a fact that the only examiners past and present are members of a well known organisation,and the IAM hierarchy only employ those ones,hence the sudden change from being a class 1 driver to being a police advanced holder due to change in police driving schools grading.  This could account why there are army personnel who are also in the same organisation,I speak from personal experience of this ,and i am not a member of the particular organisation,but do hold a class 1 certificate,the IAM always change the rules to suit certain circumstances and criteria,so read from that what you will.

I will say though that there are a lot of crap drivers out there,along with police ones and Paramedics,and Fire Service,who incidentally are only on the road when responding to incidents they do not do routine patrol and trip across incidents that invoke emergency or pursuit style driving which increases the risk factor to both themselves and other road users,let alone the ratio of vehicles that police have out.
Stephen

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#41 11-11-08 15:02:10

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

Thats a good post Stephen.
Thank you for that, in particular, I thought your 2nd paragraph was well considered, and written. smile

I'm not surprised at the content of the 3rd paragraph at all.

I also take on board your comments of the 4th paragraph regarding the differences in duties of response drivers of the different services.

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#42 11-11-08 17:46:31

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: IAM Observer training

NOW we're getting somewhere!

Thanks for the considered responses guys.

I've started a new topic for the off-thread discussion on Kev's point:

Why is this organisation not permitting able individuals to progress to examiner, and reserving such positions for serving/ex police officers?

What is it that members of the public/driving proffession are not equipped with that these police officers are?

It is not as if the candidates are expected to do anything outside of normally permitted lawful practices, so I struggle to appreciate why examiners need to be class 1 police drivers.

at http://www.drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/fo … w.html#new - so it may be worth moving the discussion over there.

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