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#1 06-07-08 10:49:47

jo
Member
Registered: 10-11-07
Posts: 27

Yellow box junctions

I've read quite a bit about these junctions.  I understand that so long as your exit road is clear, I take that to mean if you're going straight ahead, that you may proceed across the junction.  However, when turning right, if you have to wait because of oncoming traffic, is only one car allowed to wait in the box junction at any time, or can there be more than one car queuing on the junction waiting to turn right?  We don't have any of these box junctions where I live so I've never driven across one.  Thanks.

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06-07-08 10:49:47

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Re: Yellow box junctions




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#2 06-07-08 12:00:58

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Yellow box junctions

Hi Jo,
You have infact hi lighted why many people are confused over the regulations surrounding box junctions.

you may enter if your exit is clear. this relates to all exits, and includes roads to the left and right.  It means that the box junction must be kept clear......

Exceptions do exist. And the one most pepole are aware of is the waiting to turn right and the ONLY thing preventing you from clearing the boxed area is oncoming traffic.


.... now heres the thing regarding that exception.....

If another car is already on the box and waiting to turn right, it is not oncoming traffic that would be preventing a 2nd car from clearing the box but the car already waiting to turn right.

So, the exception is only for the 1st car wanting to turn right, if a 2nd driver wishes to turn right he should wait before the box until the car on the box clears the junction.

I hope that is helpful.

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#3 07-07-08 08:08:14

Jakey
Verified Member
From: Penarth
Registered: 16-06-05
Posts: 96

Re: Yellow box junctions

Hi Jo

OracleADI is incorrect in stating you cannot stop on the box if another car is waiting to turn right.

This is rule 174 of the current highway code.

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see 'Road markings'). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.

As highlighted in bold, you may stop on the box if turning right even if there is another vehicle waiting on the box.

Hope this clears thing up for you.


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#4 07-07-08 08:27:37

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Yellow box junctions

Jakey,
I believe your interpretation of 174 is not inline with TSRGD.

It refers to (although not clearly worded in HWC) another vehicle waiting to turn right ACROSS your path, i.e. from the oncoming traffic flow.

Many a driver is prosecuted by use of CCTV in London for stopping on a crossing BEHIND a vehicle waiting to turn right.

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#5 07-07-08 10:09:06

Jakey
Verified Member
From: Penarth
Registered: 16-06-05
Posts: 96

Re: Yellow box junctions

Hi

Driving The Essential Skills, page 98 says, "if there's already a vehicle on the junction waiting to turn right, your free to enter behind it and wait to turn right - providing that you won't block any oncoming traffic waiting to turn right". Lets be clear on what we teach.

You are quite right to say motorists are prosecuted for stopping on a crossing behind another vehicle waiting to turn right, you should keep the crossing clear.

I cannot find anything relating to yellow box junctions within TSRGD, except box junctions at signalled roundabouts. Maybe you could let me know where I can find this.




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#6 07-07-08 12:44:11

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Yellow box junctions

Hi Jakey,

3.    Save as provided in article 4 below, no person shall cause or permit any vehicle to enter the boxed area if it would become necessary for the whole or any part of the vehicle to remain stationary within that area due to the presence of other stationary vehicles.
    4.    The provisions of article 3 above shall not apply—
(a) in respect of a vehicle being used for police, fire brigade or ambulance purposes;
(b) to anything done with the permission or at the direction of a constable in uniform or of a traffic warden;
(c) so as to render it unlawful to cause or permit the whole, or any part of a vehicle, to remain stationary within the boxed area while waiting to complete a right turn for so long as the vehicle is prevented from completing that turn by reason of the presence of other stationary vehicles, waiting in or near that area to complete a right turn; or
(d) so as to render it unlawful to cause or permit the whole, or any part of a vehicle, to remain stationary in the boxed area if, when the whole or any part of the vehicle entered that area, the person so causing or permitting had reason to believe that he would immediately be able to cause or permit the vehicle to be driven out of that area.

It is section 4 that can lead to misunderstanding (and misrepresentation) of the law.
I have used RED to hilight relevent wording.

What the HWC does not explain in detail, is that if a driver were to enter a box junction to turn right and a car is waiting already to turn the same right, then he entered the box without the immediate ability to turn right himself, as he would have to wait for the car ahead to turn once the oncoming traffic flow permiited.  The 1st driver may have entered with his exit route clear, save for oncoming traffic, but the 2nd driver did not.

You may however enter and stop if the only thing preventing you to turn right is oncoming traffic OR another vehicle wishing to turn right ACROSS (and it is THIS that isn't very clear) your path if that vehicle is positioned at or close to your turning point.

I beleive it is this regulation that TFL uses to prosecute drivers, and almost with 100% success in the appeal court.

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#7 07-07-08 21:49:05

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Yellow box junctions

Trouble with the above is you have to take in context with the rest of the regs including the ones governing the permitted markings of box junctions.

Would explain a flaw with the above, but don't want to be pedantic  lol

Here's a link to TSRGD
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#29

Start with diagram 1044 and section 4.29 then cross reference with the exceptions and permitted variations.

The quote above by the way comes from here;
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1988/Uksi_19880104_en_1.htm

So unless your on the A3 Trunk Road (Wandsworth Common North Side, Wandsworth) (Box Junction), or any other box junction specifically mentioned in legislation, the H/C and Essential Skills are correct.


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