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#1 29-02-08 23:37:27

walsh
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Registered: 29-02-08
Posts: 241

Over Instructing on CT

Hi, got an e on my CT because I over instructed.

Didn't want to come across as dumb so never said anything, but what is over instructing?

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29-02-08 23:37:27

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Re: Over Instructing on CT




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#2 01-03-08 02:00:35

gday
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From: Oxfordshire
Registered: 27-04-05
Posts: 531
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Re: Over Instructing on CT

If you give full talk through to someone who is of test standard that is an example of over Instructing ie they do not need that amount of instruction. All check tests are of Phase 2 standard, so Instruction should be primarily Q and A, with the obvious fault identification, analysis and correct remedial action.

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#3 01-03-08 08:52:56

FRANKS
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From: WALES
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Posts: 530

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Have to disagree, not all check tests are at phase 2 standard, it will depend on what your topic area is on check test.

for example, if you're introducing the turn in the road then this will be as phase 1 as the pupil has never done it before with lots of talk back to start with and less help with the more attempts done at the exercise.

If you've over instructing, then it's exacting what it says, you've given your pupil to much help and not letting them think for themselvies. It's very easy to over instruct on a check test. I know I did on my first one,


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#4 01-03-08 10:26:55

Luchell
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From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Over Instructing on CT

I'm a bit lost there to, it depends entirely on the chosen topic as to whether or not someone is new to the topic, part trained or trained.

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#5 01-03-08 21:41:30

hector
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Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Over Instructing on CT

Its the old part 3 mistake carried on into check test- Periods of quiet are fine, if a pupil is approaching test standard they should be left alot more to their own devices.
Useless questions and guided instruction is very common with pupils who need neither, and examiners hate it on check test. There has to be a reason for questions asked-not just random to be doing something

Why are all check tests phase 2 standard???? You could do a controls lesson if you so wished!

Good luck next time Walsh


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
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#6 03-03-08 14:53:58

yasmin
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Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Hi Walsh
If it's any consolation, the same happened to me on my first one so when I did my next one I tried hard not to fall into the same trap. However, I was graded 4 because, although I had improved, the SE still thought I should have 'let go' of my pupil earlier when we were doing rural road driving. I started out ok,then mentioned that I was going to leave him to it but on occasions prompted unnecessarily. Hence the 4.

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#7 03-03-08 16:02:16

gday
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From: Oxfordshire
Registered: 27-04-05
Posts: 531
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Re: Over Instructing on CT

Went to the Local ADI's meeting this last week with our new area Supervising Examiner who is responsible for all our check tests in sector 13.

It is he who said all check tests are Phase 2, quote "I want to see the car moving, the pupil driving and your ability to Instruct not sat parked at the side of the road for long periods"!

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#8 07-03-08 18:04:09

Doc
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Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: Over Instructing on CT

Went to the Local ADI's meeting this last week with our new area Supervising Examiner who is responsible for all our check tests in sector 13.

It is he who said all check tests are Phase 2, quote "I want to see the car moving, the pupil driving and your ability to Instruct not sat parked at the side of the road for long periods"!

That quote does not imply phase 2. As the others have said it depends on the topic your pupil is on that dictates at what level the instruction is pitched at. I think what the SE will be refering to is that he wants to see progress made and that can't happen if you are sat at the roadside for longer than is necessary. Full talk through to partial talk through (ie; Q&A or prompting) to no help at all are the natural steps in learning. You need to know when to change level (too soon, you under instruct and too late you over instruct) and make it known to your pupil that you are relaxing your instruction rather than just doing it and run the risk of confusing your pupil.

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#9 08-03-08 12:39:58

billrhoades
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From: Northampton
Registered: 28-11-07
Posts: 184

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Am I missing something here ? How do you get graded "E"?? What is an "E"? Have only ever been given numbers on my C/Ts.

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#10 08-03-08 15:55:27

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Am I missing something here ? How do you get graded "E"?? What is an "E"? Have only ever been given numbers on my C/Ts.

You can get graded "E" (for educational) if you are check tested within 12 months of qualifying and you fail to achieve a "passing" grade. I.e 4,5 or 6.

Percy


Grade 6 ADI/Fleet Trainer, SAFED Registered Trainer, Qualified BTEC Assessor

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#11 20-05-08 23:12:35

walsh
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Registered: 29-02-08
Posts: 241

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Failed again today. What happens now?

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#12 21-05-08 05:43:29

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Over Instructing on CT

You will now be invited again for a second attempt, and if you failed that you would have a final attempt with a ACDE.

Have you had training since your first one?


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#13 21-05-08 07:45:31

walsh
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Registered: 29-02-08
Posts: 241

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Yes. Maybe I'm just a crap instructor:(

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#14 02-06-08 18:27:44

johnp
Verified Member
From: Dorset
Registered: 04-03-06
Posts: 2,636

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Please do not think that walsh. It is not you who is a crap instructor.
Learn to play their game for 1 hour and then teach the way suitable for the pupil.
It is a crap system and needs a total revision because people do not learn like the DSA expects. The DSA expect robots not people. (another section in my book) Sorry! big_smile


Driving is books-
1. "safe and responsible INDEPENDENCE."
2. "DISABILITY into ABILITY" 
3. "PSYCHOLOGY than SYSTEMS.
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#15 02-06-08 21:12:41

learnwithrichard
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Registered: 23-03-07
Posts: 156

Re: Over Instructing on CT

Walsh,
If you managed to pass part 3 then I doubt very much you're a crap instructor. It's probably a combination of not knowing how to play the checktest game like johnp says and needing more time to develop your teaching style in the real world. A good thing to remember is - tell them what they don't know, ask them about what they do know. So, at the start of the lesson ask some pertinent questions about the pupils experience in order to know what to ask them about and what you need to tell them about.
Example, Have you done roundabouts before? No. What about zebra crossings? Yes.  On the drive: what type of crossing is that? Will you need a mirror check? Where are you going to stop if you have to? Should you beckon the person across? Ok, we're now approaching a roundabout. Remember this is a hazard so what checks will you need to do. We're going to be turning right so you'll need to use the right hand lane. Indicate right. You'll need to give way to the cars on the roundabout. Ok we're passing the turning prior to the exit, check your left mirror and indicate left. Now begin moving across.

See what I mean?

Be positive and confident. Let us know how you get on.

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#16 03-06-08 09:41:31

Doc
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Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: Over Instructing on CT

I agree with the guys here, if you can pass part 3 then you're not far off at least a 4. I don't know what training you have had or wether it has been the right quality but have you considered changing trainer? even if it's only for a different perspective. This might just be one of the better moves you can make and if you do go this way make sure the trainer you pick comes highly recommended. Don't let distance put you off either as a 300 mile round trip, £x course and whatever traveling and living expenses you incur can be offset against saving your career.

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