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#26 28-05-08 20:35:03

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: Pink ?????????????????

Thank you Hector for distinguishing between the trainers, that makes all the difference. We all know that the industry needs a good shake up, there's no getting away from that and that it is the fault of the industry as a whole. We can't blame anyone else. My points in my earlier posts is not to drag others down with harsh comments (wether intentional or unintentional) as they do have an effect on others business. We as experienced instructors/trainers have a responsibility to carry ourselves in a dignified way and we shouldn't be at each others throats.

HCT

I can accept i am being very protective of a company that i feel is helping the industry more than most companies and perhaps i come across in a strong manner that may have heaped fuel on this debate. If you can accept that your remark -inadvertantly- encompassed a company (or companies) that did not deserve to be thought of in this light, then i think we can resolve our differences and remain respected members of this forum.

Only then will you be back on my chrimbo card list.

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28-05-08 20:35:03

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Re: Pink ?????????????????



#27 28-05-08 21:31:33

HereComesTrouble
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Re: Pink ?????????????????

Of course I will back down. We are both strong characters with strong opinions. If I have offended you or made you feel i was atacking your company, then I am only to pleased.


To apologise. big_smile

I will rephrase my original post, thus: Some big companies are only after your money, but many smaller indipendents follow suit. Thr trick is simply to make enquiries. Are they actually that or even any good? How long have they been doing this? Previous successes AND failures? etc.

No offense taken or meant. One hand stretched out to shake...... smile

#28 28-05-08 22:28:29

Doc
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Posts: 559
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Re: Pink ?????????????????

Thank you HCT for the amendment and of course your handshake is graciously accepted  :afro:

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#29 31-05-08 05:29:51

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Pink ?????????????????

....
You are making comments that can have an adverse affect on my business for no good reason other than waiting 13 weeks for information. That is an unprofessional thing to do and in my opinion is an act of insecurity or malice. If you are as good a trainer as you claim then i again will assume that you are secure within yourself so that only leaves malice.....

So, from this comment, you have a franchise with LDC?  So we are now not allowed to criticise LDC?  OK, I have a franchise with the AA, should everyone now stop criticising the AA?  No they shouldn't, neither should anyone refrain from criticising LDC!  From what HCT was saying, he wasn't criticising you personally Doc, just LDC as a whole together with BSM, AA, TIC etc.

For what it's worth, Hector, the AA have heavily revamped their Instructor training course.  As a trainer, I much prefer it to the old one, much more structured with a fair bit of overlap between the 3 parts. 

As with any large company there will be good people and bad ones.  If you choose to train with one of the large companies, ask to speak to one of the trainers (even the trainer you are likely to be allocated to).  Some companies will agree to this, some wont.  The AA is one of the those that will.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#30 01-06-08 11:09:28

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: Pink ?????????????????

So, from this comment, you have a franchise with LDC?  So we are now not allowed to criticise LDC?  OK, I have a franchise with the AA, should everyone now stop criticising the AA?  No they shouldn't, neither should anyone refrain from criticising LDC!  From what HCT was saying, he wasn't criticising you personally Doc, just LDC as a whole together with BSM, AA, TIC etc.

No Nigel, i'm not suggesting that LDC be protected from criticism or anyone else for that matter but that any criticism be justified.

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#31 01-06-08 16:25:58

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Pink ?????????????????

No Nigel, i'm not suggesting that LDC be protected from criticism or anyone else for that matter but that any criticism be justified.

But HCT's criticism was justified.  13 weeks to respond to a query isn't good as far as I am concerned.  If they treat potential clients like that, how are they going to treat clients once they join up?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#32 01-06-08 19:05:25

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: Pink ?????????????????

Nigel, this wasn't your concern and i'm baffled as to why you want to make it so. The time it took to reply may be bad business practice but it had nothing to do with being after money. My objections were based on that as it may have an affect on my direct business as a trainer. HCT and I are both very opinionated and passionate about our positions and we have accepted each others views without prejudice, so if there is a point to make then please do it but keep it to the facts as where discussed in previous posts.

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#33 01-06-08 20:21:05

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Pink ?????????????????

Nigel, this wasn't your concern and i'm baffled as to why you want to make it so.

I may be wrong, but I had the impression that you became involved because you are franchised to LDC and you didn't like them being criticised - thinking that the criticism may affect your business.

I am franchised to the AA and criticism of the AA may affect my business.   So how is this your concern, but not mine?  Perhaps one of the differences between us is that I believe if a company or individual does something wrong then the criticism is deserved and should be made!  If you don't want to be affected by criticism of LDC, why not go independent?

The time it took to reply may be bad business practice but it had nothing to do with being after money. My objections were based on that as it may have an affect on my direct business as a trainer.

How many lessons do you give away at cost or even, free?  Or are you working to make money like most of us?

HCT and I are both very opinionated and passionate about our positions and we have accepted each others views without prejudice, so if there is a point to make then please do it but keep it to the facts as where discussed in previous posts.

I have already made my point.  If a company cocks up, then they should be criticised!  Whether you like it or not!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#34 01-06-08 21:53:47

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: Pink ?????????????????

If you want to defend against any criticism made against the AA then on you go, but do not aim that at me as i haven't said anything against any other company or trainer. You are being a bit of an arse here Nigel with your point, it is both irrelevant to my discussion with HCT and not any of your business. You seem to want an arguement and are using this topic as a means but i won't entertain you, you are not worthy. You want the right to criticise but deny the right to defend. Where's the balance?

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#35 02-06-08 05:01:27

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Pink ?????????????????

If you want to defend against any criticism made against the AA then on you go, but do not aim that at me as i haven't said anything against any other company or trainer.

I am well aware you haven't attacked any other company or trainer and I have not made any such suggestion!

You are being a bit of an arse here Nigel with your point,

You now feel the need to descend into the depths of petty name calling?  I would have thought you above that Doc.

it is both irrelevant to my discussion with HCT and not any of your business.

If you wish to have a private conversation with HCT use the phone or the pm facility.  I have as much right to contribute to an open thread as you have Doc so don't try telling me it is none of my business.

You seem to want an arguement and are using this topic as a means but i won't entertain you, you are not worthy.

Oh, back to the personal insult?

You want the right to criticise but deny the right to defend. Where's the balance?

Sorry Doc, but I haven't tried to deny anyone the right to defend.  But I had the impression you were trying to stop HCT criticising LDC, even though, in my opinion, the criticism was a valid one.

One of the problems with working for a franchise is that we may have to cope with some of the flack when someone else in the franchise slips up.  It is a pain, but is one of the things we just have to put up with if we plan to remain with a franchise.

I believe telling someone not to criticise a franchise you belong to simply because it may affect your business is wrong!

If you wish to have a private conversation with HCT use the phone or the pm facility.  I have as much right to contribute to an open thread as you have Doc so don't try telling me it is none of my business.  I don't see you telling Hector it is none of his business, but then his comment supported LDC, perhaps that is the reason there?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#36 02-06-08 08:56:05

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
Website

Re: Pink ?????????????????

Your motives for joining this thread, at this late stage and after the topics have ended are not to contribute to an open discussion. If that were the case then why did you not contribute when the discussions were in full flow? My belief is that you are purely on this matter to instigate an argument, hence my using the words “bit of an arse“. If you can convince me otherwise I would gladly apologise for the insult.  Further more, I’ve been around this forum a very long time now to know that you yourself can be quite insultive with remarks so let’s not play the saint card on this one.  I haven’t (and never have) told anyone not to criticise anyone but I have reacted (strongly at times) when a broad statement was made that encompassed more than it should have, like in this case.  Hector had distinguished between trainers in his response but if his experience had been that ldc lacked quality then I would not have argued against him because that is his experiences. So I don’t (or won’t) stand against anyone who has something negative to say about ldc just to protect my business but I will if what they are saying is incorrect. The fact that HCT waited for information was not apparent at my first response and was irrelevant to the comment made but even at that I have conceded that it is bad business practice. All the reasons you state for joining this topic are not there Nigel.

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#37 02-06-08 11:07:23

binty1968
Verified Member
From: Hants/Surrey border
Registered: 22-02-06
Posts: 1,691
Website

Re: Pink ?????????????????

To me....a trainee licence worked with a good sponsor & good further training, along with lots of studying, reading, planning & advice

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#38 02-06-08 11:17:34

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Pink ?????????????????

Back to the original point of this thread (Probably best left there Nigel and Doc?) The whole point really is its all down to the trainer not the organistaion, as with the AA trainer in this case who im sure all would agree had put in a candidate totally unprepared.


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#39 02-06-08 11:22:29

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
Website

Re: Pink ?????????????????

I went on pink and it helped me get part 3 first time-real pupils is far better than role play training imho


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#40 02-06-08 11:27:43

Doc
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Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
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Re: Pink ?????????????????

Yes hector, if what Stevo said is accurate then i'd agree totally.

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#41 02-06-08 22:06:07

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Pink ?????????????????

Sorry Hector, but I am not leaving it at that just yet.  Doc has made an accusation that I cannot ignore!

Your motives for joining this thread, at this late stage and after the topics have ended are not to contribute to an open discussion.

Are they not?  Is there some sort of timescale for joining discussions these days?  As it happens though, I joined in the discussion before you did, so I haven't simply joined in to have an argument.  I do think it a shame that you feel this need to think so negatively of people.  You also suggested that HCT was being malicious.  As Vanda has said you are a respected member of this forum, but this descent into throwing personal insults really doesn't become you!

If that were the case then why did you not contribute when the discussions were in full flow?

I did!

My belief is that you are purely on this matter to instigate an argument, hence my using the words “bit of an arse“. If you can convince me otherwise I would gladly apologise for the insult.

I really don't care enough to feel a huge need to convince you otherwise.  I know I didn't simply join to create an argument.

Further more, I’ve been around this forum a very long time now to know that you yourself can be quite insultive with remarks so let’s not play the saint card on this one.

Doc, in my very early days maybe I did throw personal insults (and I'm not so sure that I ever did) but it is something I haven't done for a very long time.

I haven’t (and never have) told anyone not to criticise anyone but I have reacted (strongly at times) when a broad statement was made that encompassed more than it should have, like in this case.  Hector had distinguished between trainers in his response but if his experience had been that ldc lacked quality then I would not have argued against him because that is his experiences.
So I don’t (or won’t) stand against anyone who has something negative to say about ldc just to protect my business but I will if what they are saying is incorrect. The fact that HCT waited for information was not apparent at my first response and was irrelevant to the comment made but even at that I have conceded that it is bad business practice. All the reasons you state for joining this topic are not there Nigel.

Are they not?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#42 02-06-08 22:15:45

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
Website

Re: Pink ?????????????????

Sorry Nigel, it's over.

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#43 03-06-08 04:51:03

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Pink ?????????????????

Apology accepted, thanks Doc

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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