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#1 16-04-08 16:36:21

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Experienced Driver Assessment

Anyone carried out one of these?

Can the be done Independent of HQ?

http://www.roada.org.uk/drivers/safety/eda.htm


Price: £35

All fees quoted are exclusive of VAT which must be paid in addition to the quoted fee.

Course objectives:
To provide an objective report of a person's driving ability
To provide post assessment practical suggestions on how driving skills could be improved
To improve the confidence of people taking the assessment

Course content:
An hour's drive in the person's own car, at a time and place convenient to them
An assessment by a qualified driver of the highest level and registered with RoSPA Advanced Drivers and Riders
A confidential verbal and written assessment of the drive
A certificate of completion.


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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16-04-08 16:36:21

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Re: Experienced Driver Assessment



#2 16-04-08 18:02:14

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

In my opinion, RoSPA are sailing very close to the wind on this unless their "drivers of the highest level" are also ADIs. Where is the demarcation between an assessment and the "imparting of knowledge" (DSA definition of instruction).

Percy




Grade 6 ADI/Fleet Trainer, SAFED Registered Trainer, Qualified BTEC Assessor

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#3 16-04-08 23:28:34

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

agree Percy,

I was just browsing the Rospa site, ended up seeing this, I haven't heard of it before, and the link doesn't exactly give a lot of info - I might give them a call and see whats what


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#4 17-04-08 04:35:18

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

If RoSPA are using non-ADI's for these assessments, how are they sailing any closer to the wind than the DSA are?  The DSA offer a driving assessment service to full licence holders.  Just had a quick look for a link, but can't find it.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#5 17-04-08 07:31:40

Pilgrim
Verified Member
From: Boston Lincolnshire
Registered: 27-02-04
Posts: 586
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Hi All

I must not be thinking the same way as you. This assessment is for qualified drivers. As ADI'S we teach people up to test standard.

There are no regulations for anyone regarding the assessment, training or examination of students after passing the Driving Test other than belonging to a recognized organization.

Tony


Offering You the Freedom of Drivng in Boston
www.bostondrivingschool.co.uk
www.12drive.co.uk

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#6 17-04-08 08:14:51

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Pilgrim it is illegal to receive money for training/instructing/coaching anyone in the operation of a car unless you are an ADI.

Period.

There are no longer any exemptions in the recent RTA.

"To provide post assessment practical suggestions on how driving skills could be improved"

This is the bit which sails close to the wind. The difference between this and how examiners work is that examiners tell you what you did wrong, this suggests telling you what to do right - hence instruction. Very close to being illegal and I wouldn't like to be involved in any court case in these situations.

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#7 17-04-08 09:13:02

Dimmy
Guest

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

It is no secret that I do not support the use of the word ADVANCED  as used by the so called "Advanced Motoring Organisations" on the basis that on the whole, their test criteria merely tests a level of competance that I would expect any reasonable driver SHOULD be acheiving.
I often jump in with both guns blazing regarding their marketing and course activities.
However.......

Is an assesment really instruction?

Is being told, "you did this wrong, that wrong" etc the same as saying "you did this wrong BECAUSE......"

I would say assesment is being told you did something right or wrong.
Being given an explaination why it was wrong, or a blueprint  of how it should be done is instruction.

Course content:
An hour's drive in the person's own car, at a time and place convenient to them
An assessment by a qualified driver of the highest level and registered with RoSPA Advanced Drivers and Riders
A confidential verbal and written assessment of the drive
A certificate of completion.

The above suggests an assessment without remedial advice, so is any instruction being given?


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#8 17-04-08 12:31:13

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

It is no secret that I do not support the use of the word ADVANCED  as used by the so called "Advanced Motoring Organisations" on the basis that on the whole, their test criteria merely tests a level of competence that I would expect any reasonable driver SHOULD be achieving.

Dimmy, you have your website that you "offer" an -Advanced Driver Training Programme
how can you offer this if you don't have any advanced qualifications?

OR is it that you offer a different "Advanced" technique?

P.S - this is NOT a dig at you, just an enquiry mate


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#9 17-04-08 13:28:38

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

"To provide post assessment practical suggestions on how driving skills could be improved"

Dimmy - I agree about "assessment", but this is the bit which causes concern. In my mind this may well cross the line into "instruction".

The only way that this wouldn't cross the line would be if the assessment pointed out areas where work needs doing and the driver was then referred to an ADI.

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#10 17-04-08 13:45:09

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

I have just called them to find out how to carryout the assessment and who is authorised to do so?

RoADAR EXAMINERS - police class 1 examiners are the only ones allowed, ADI + RoSPA Dip is NOT enough.

Anyway, told by girl on phone they don't get much call for it....


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
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#11 17-04-08 14:26:30

ADI349
Verified Member
From: East Yorkshire
Registered: 24-01-05
Posts: 193

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

RoADAR (RoSPA) examiners are holders of a police class 1 Advanced Driving Certificate, they are not necessarily Police Class 1 Examiners, (there is a difference)Police Instructors courses vary between 6 and 8 weeks and is on top of a 4 or 5 week Police Advanced Course which again is generally on top of a 3 or 4 weeks Police Standard Course.  Many RoSPA examiners are Police Advanced Instructors as well as being ADI's but not all.
As someone has pointed out the DSA offer a similar assessment and they are not ADI's

Steve W


If you only do what you've always done, you will only achieve what you've always achieved

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#12 17-04-08 14:33:45

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

RoADAR (RoSPA) examiners are holders of a police class 1 Advanced Driving Certificate, they are not necessarily Police Class 1 Examiners,

thats what I meant to say, better put than me 349............. :oops:


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
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#13 17-04-08 16:55:26

copone
Verified Member
From: Co. Durham
Registered: 03-07-05
Posts: 89

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Is payment taken by the examiners ? If so, surely they will have to be ADI's


ADI. Class 1 Police Advanced. HGV Class 1. Member of IAM AND DIA. Rospa Gold. National Diploma for Advanced Instruction. and Examiner. IAM fleet trainer. Safed trainer.

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#14 17-04-08 17:40:55

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Only if they actually offer instruction on how to drive.

If they offer instruction on how to find the advice they need to improve their driving then they're fine!!!

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#15 17-04-08 17:50:33

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Is payment taken by the examiners ? If so, surely they will have to be ADI's

as far as i was told, payment is given to them on an hourly rate, not sure of the intricate details though, but they ARE paid to carry this out.


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#16 17-04-08 19:30:38

billrhoades
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 28-11-07
Posts: 184

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

RoSPA,IAM use tutors to bring people up to test standard. These tutors are NOT necessarily ADIs and are not paid.They give advice on" Roadcraft, The Police drivers handbook" and the Highway Code and Know your roadsigns , all books that increase the average drivers knowledge of road procedure to make them a more relaxed and safer driver or Advanced driver.
Once an associate member has reached test standard in the eyes of his tutor he applies for the advanced test.
He is then examined by an examiner who is either a serving class one police driver or an ex classone police driver. The examiner receives a fee for this, they are NOT paid to give instruction.
I agree there is a very fine line between advising and teaching but when no monies or goods in kind change hand does it matter if any teaching takes place?
RoSPA tutors must be of at least a SILVER Standard and have gone through a strict training programme before being allowed to "go on his own".
The Northants group have a ten pounds joining fee, this allows you an "observered" drive with a tutor until you are test ready and to have your driving skills checked as often as you require.
Look on doing an advanced course as part of your CPD!!!!

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#17 17-04-08 19:34:48

billrhoades
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 28-11-07
Posts: 184

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

What is stopping you carrying out driver assesments?? You are a quailified ADI and have the nessacary quailifications to do so.
You are not doing Fleet training you are assesing and advising.
If you know someone with a "fleet" badge consider working with them, you asses the driver and pass them on to the "fleet" ADI.

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#18 17-04-08 21:50:59

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

You don't necessarily need to be fleet qualified to give fleet training.

The fleet badge simply means that the DSA (or a body approved by them) feel that you are up to a certain standard.

The restriction is on non-adi's giving instruction for money (or money's worth).

As long as volunteers are used I have no issue with training taking place. Does anyone know whether the money from the charity sections of these organisation in some way pays for the advertising that they use to gain paid work for their fleet arms?

Or is the voluntary work strictly ring fenced from the fleet work?

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#19 17-04-08 22:33:26

ADI349
Verified Member
From: East Yorkshire
Registered: 24-01-05
Posts: 193

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Is payment taken by the examiners ? If so, surely they will have to be ADI's

As far as I am aware the examiners are paid expenses and they are not giving driving tuition


If you only do what you've always done, you will only achieve what you've always achieved

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#20 17-04-08 22:41:38

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Is payment taken by the examiners ? If so, surely they will have to be ADI's

As far as I am aware the examiners are paid expenses and they are not giving driving tuition

I was told they are paid by the hour, not sure how much of the £35 they get tho, but payements from the FLH goes to RoSPA, they then pay the Examiner


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#21 18-04-08 04:54:53

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

....Does anyone know whether the money from the charity sections of these organisation in some way pays for the advertising that they use to gain paid work for their fleet arms?

Or is the voluntary work strictly ring fenced from the fleet work?

I would suspect that any movement of funds between the charity side and the commercial side would be from the commercial into the charity and not the other way around.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#22 18-04-08 09:37:22

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

I'd hope so too Nigel and I suspect that both organisations are very careful about this for exactly these reasons.

IAM and RoSPA both know about the legal issues and seem to have taken them into account. Other organisations unfortunately aren't so careful regarding the law on paid car instruction and ADIs.

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#23 23-04-08 08:57:13

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Hold a minute.

So is someone telling me that by using the words ASSESSMENT rather than say DRIVING INSTUCTOR ( INSTRUCTION ) they are allowed to charge money.

Ok, the monies previoulsy have been camouflaged by part-timers working Sundays mornings and the money going into a charity box but whats to stop some guy on the street doing his own ASSESSMENTS and charging for it?

It is no secret that I do not support the use of the word ADVANCED  as used by the so called "Advanced Motoring Organisations" on the basis that on the whole, their test criteria merely tests a level of competance that I would expect any reasonable driver SHOULD be acheiving.

Dimmy, im inclined to agree there some sort of cult following that so called Advanced Motoring has some kind of elite following. Yes I use the words Advanced Driving on my website but if I did'nt are people going to type in Driving Improvement Courses into the search engines.

Personally Id like to see a change in the approach and wording, its my opinion that this fundamental floor is affecting the reasons why so many people do not do more driver training post L-Test.


Approved Driving Instructor ADI(car)
Cardington Grade (A) Diamond Special DIA MSA IAM ROSPA (Silver)
QEF Mobility Qualified
Taxi Driver Training DATT
BTEC Qualified Assessor
www.targettuition.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/TargetTuition

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#24 30-05-08 22:22:06

robinsamuels
Verified Member
From: Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire,
Registered: 09-03-08
Posts: 425
Website

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Many of the advanced courses use demonstration drives where the "assessor" is showing and telling what to do.

Now, either that is instruction or every time I do a demonstration of something for a pupil, I'm no longer doing my job. After all, the DSA accept a commentary demonstration of a maneuver as being instruction during a part 3 or check test.


When it gets to the stage of sadobestionecrophilia, give up: Otherwise known as flogging a dead horse!

http://www.robinsdriving.co.uk

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#25 30-05-08 22:43:25

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Experienced Driver Assessment

Many of the advanced courses use demonstration drives where the "assessor" is showing and telling what to do.

Now, either that is instruction or every time I do a demonstration of something for a pupil, I'm no longer doing my job. After all, the DSA accept a commentary demonstration of a maneuver as being instruction during a part 3 or check test.

Yes but the Assessors don't get paid. I am, to be honest surprised Rospa Dip holders (and ADI) aren't 'qualified' to carry out this assessment RoSPA have on their website though but as said the demand is minimal.  I do wonder why so many ADIs get niggled over RoSPA/IAM assessors helping people out who otherwise wouldn't do anything much to improve their driving.  If people paid do you really think there would be any work anyway?? I do agree the words 'advanced driving' isn't appealing I think it does tend to put people's backs up.....

Just my thoughts and now I'll get slaughtered I expect

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