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#1 16-03-08 17:57:53

daba
Member
Registered: 16-03-08
Posts: 5

Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

I am concerned that my son's instructor is not allowing him to progress properly with his driving.

He has just come back from his 8th lesson (this one a 2 hour lesson, previous ones were 1 hour), and his instructor has not yet let him drive away from, or return to the house.

Instead the instructor is taking him to a very quiet industrial estate (it is a Sunday, after all), and is just practising manouevres. Then the instructor brings him back to the house.

In my opinion, he shouldn't be doing the manouevres until he can drive the car around adequately.

Your opinions please.....

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16-03-08 17:57:53

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Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...



#2 16-03-08 18:14:09

ledzepploid
Member
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 16-03-08
Posts: 6

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

The driving instructors on this site will answer your question better, I can only talk about my own experience.  On around my 5th hour of driving I left the quite estate and drove home on a busy main road.  My lesson after that (most recent one) I drove from my house to a fairly busy area again via a main road (about 15 minutes drive away) which had traffic lights and busy junctions.

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#3 16-03-08 18:19:20

FRANKS
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From: WALES
Registered: 05-06-06
Posts: 530

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Honest answer,

all instructors work differently, I would expect most of my pupils to drive back to there drop off point on second lesson. This of course depends on where that is.

daba, I'm guessing your paying for yoursons lessons, why not have a quiet word with his instructor, we don't bite, infact most instructors are only to happy to speak with parents.


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#4 16-03-08 18:26:02

Jakey
Verified Member
From: Penarth
Registered: 16-06-05
Posts: 96

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Hi

Your right, his instructor should not be covering manoeuvres just yet unless your son has a control issue, ask your son exactly what he is doing. I sometimes teach Turn in Road very early if there are specific control issues.

Don't right off his instructor just yet though, people learn at vastly different rates, it might be that your son can't yet cope with the type of roads/traffic around where you live. Ask your son if you can go along on his next lesson to see for yourself if there's a problem, his instructor should not have a problem with that.

You could try:-

Taking him out yourself.
Have an assessment with another instructor.
Try to find other pupils of this instructor.






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#5 16-03-08 18:35:27

Pilgrim
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From: Boston Lincolnshire
Registered: 27-02-04
Posts: 586
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Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Hi

I agree with Frank I would expect some form of road work not just Manoeuvres. After all in real life you will be driving rather than doing manoeuvres.

Why not have a word with the instructor check he is displaying his instructor license I should be  green Octigan or a red triangle. If not ask him if you can see it.

Tony


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#6 16-03-08 18:49:35

daba
Member
Registered: 16-03-08
Posts: 5

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Well, many thanks for your replies. Especially thanks to Pilgrim for the correct spelling of manoeuvres

I've spoken to my son, he reckons he's confident enough to tackle the drive away and back on what is (on a Sunday, anyway) a relatively quiet road.

I've also found out has been to exactly the same location for his last 6 lessons, and he is getting absolutely no experience on other roads, other junctions, traffic lights, roundabouts, etc.. If it carries on like this, I just hope he gets that route on his test!!

I'm going to have a word with the instructor when I can get hold of him, see what he says. I'll post back.

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#7 16-03-08 19:16:36

Pilgrim
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From: Boston Lincolnshire
Registered: 27-02-04
Posts: 586
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Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Wow.

I got some spelling correct  :evil:  espically as I suffer from lexDysia.  tongue

Tony


Offering You the Freedom of Drivng in Boston
www.bostondrivingschool.co.uk
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#8 16-03-08 19:20:18

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,597

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

daba, you could always accompany your son's lesson to see exactly what is going on (with your Son's permission, of course) most ADIs would not mind a parent sitting in on a lesson,( providing they do not intefere with the lesson in any way)  wink  smile

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#9 16-03-08 20:45:07

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
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Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

All too diplomatic for me........In 5 years Ive not come across a single pupil I could not talk back after the first lesson, if not on the first lessons definately on the second.

Some are not best drivers in the world, but giving them that chance brings them along tenfold. I accept doing manoveres ( ? ) at some point will also help their driving overall, but not until they have mastered some basics.

Conterary to belief....If you live on a busy dual carriageway its probably easier to talk them back than a quite side street on a Sunday evening.

Have a word......Use your gut feeling!.


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#10 16-03-08 20:59:43

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

2nd lesson has always been a "drive back" for my pupils, YES I "may" spend early hours on mans, but this is to help with clutch control for out in the "big world" of roads etc.

Dab - check the validity of the instructors qualifications, and as someone else stated, go out on next lesson, I whole heartedly ask for parents to accompany me with lessons, but the pity is, not many take me up on it


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
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#11 16-03-08 21:16:25

daba
Member
Registered: 16-03-08
Posts: 5

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Many thanks for your responses : it seems my concerns have some validity.

1. The instructors appointment card bears the Octagon symbol - and is dispalyed in the car also.
2. I will speak to the instructor some time this week (no answer to calls tonight).
3. I may decide to ask to go along on the next lesson. 

Depending on the outcome, a change of instructor may be called for, but my son has a number of pre-booked outstanding hours, booked in advance to get discount.  Where might I stand for a refund ?

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#12 16-03-08 21:33:48

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

but my son has a number of pre-booked outstanding hours, booked in advance to get discount.  Where might I stand for a refund ?

thats a "nippy" question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I think in this scenario, you should try to go out during the lessons for the remaining time left of the "pre-booked" lessons, this will allow you to make better assumptions of the instructor and his/her techniques.


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#13 16-03-08 21:44:13

daba
Member
Registered: 16-03-08
Posts: 5

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

That's a possibility, but what if I felt that the instructor wasn't delivering VFM before the remaining paid-for hours were used....

I suspect then it may become a battle, is there recourse via the DSA ?

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#14 16-03-08 21:52:28

Karenadi
Verified Member
Registered: 08-03-07
Posts: 841

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

No: the DSA won't get involved at all.  Instructors are all self empoyed, and so you need to make your request to the instructor in question.

Although most instructors would readily give a refund: I certainly would if asked: unfortunately it may not be easily forthcoming: but you could cross that bridge when you come to it.

The best way to find a good instructor is a) for your son to ask around his friends: who did they learn with OR b) put a request on here with your area.

Have you searched on here for an instructor in your area?  Many do have adverts (see top of page).

Hope you can find some satisfaction.  I know it must be very frustrating parting with a large sum of money and not seeing a reasonable return for it.  The problem is WE do ALL work differently and I don't believe that anyone can suggest that the instructor your son has is wrong without knowing more about how he works.

I don't cover any manouvres until my pupils can drive forward competantly: I don't get complaints because I tell them that at the beginning.  Maybe your son's instructor feels that the close control of the car is important first.  Who knows? At least give him the benefit and ask him.


Wisest are they that know they know nothing

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#15 16-03-08 23:06:34

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
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Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

usually should do moving off and stopping then junctions then manhoovers LOL. But if he has no clutch control at all is a very good way to attain this. But if you are concerned speak to the adi. Sons and daughters often tell us what they want us to hear and not the whole story-I know mine do it all the time.


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#16 17-03-08 07:58:01

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
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Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Definitely sit in and see. A second opinion may also be worth while.

I've had complete novices drive back on lesson one, but others who've taken 10 or more lessons before they drive back.

It depends on the customer, the location & the day.

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#17 18-03-08 02:06:23

Serpico
Verified Member
From: Hull, East Yorkshire
Registered: 18-05-04
Posts: 194

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

I've had complete novices drive back on lesson one, but others who've taken 10 or more lessons before they drive back.

It depends on the customer, the location & the day.

Absolutely. This talk of pupils ALWAYS driving themselves home on the second lesson scares the hell out of me.

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#18 19-03-08 11:16:57

guess who
Verified Member
Registered: 06-11-05
Posts: 802

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

timmanwaringadi wrote:

I've had complete novices drive back on lesson one, but others who've taken 10 or more lessons before they drive back.

It depends on the customer, the location & the day.

Absolutely. This talk of pupils ALWAYS driving themselves home on the second lesson scares the hell out of me.

I have to agree i was thinking the same.

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#19 19-03-08 13:12:08

yasmin
Verified Member
Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

As said by most people, it all depends on the pupil, area and time of day in some cases. I like to be flexible and just because pujpil (a) drove home on lesson 1, 2, 8 it doesn't mean pupil (b) can. Most manage it anywhere between lesson 3 and 10 but I prefer to make sure they can do most of it with minimal help. I've had so many who have been scared out of their wits on the first 2 or 3 lessons that they have never gone back to the instructor. In 2 cases, the instructor had used the duals at every junction and led the pupil to believe he/she was in control. But as with all things, each to his/her own.

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#20 19-03-08 16:18:32

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Sons and daughters often tell us what they want us to hear and not the whole story-I know mine do it all the time.

But is that the case here. I often find that its the parents assumption of what should be happening rather than what the son/daughter has actually told them. We all know that Mum & Dad passed in 20 hours, but the reality is it was probably still 40 just like today. What we do for tuition now is far better than it was 20 years ago.

Ive had many a conversation with Parents who are not happy their children are still learning after 30 hours, and want to know why they have not taken the test. I usually bring this up with the pupil who then tends to know nothing about it, and is very imbarred by the whole thing.

In my opinion, he shouldn't be doing the manouevres until he can drive the car around adequately.

This is the quote from the OP. We should have reason to be concerned thou, as we know there are alot of illegals out there. A common sign is you may not be given paperwork, or drivers record cards, business cards. The illegals dont want paperwork or payment records wink They would'nt want anything to suggest a lesson took place.


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#21 20-03-08 07:51:35

daba
Member
Registered: 16-03-08
Posts: 5

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

On the subject of Paperwork - How would I know if the documentation and/or window stickers on display is genuine ?  Is there a registration number that can be checked with the DSA ?

I've looked at the ORDIT lists on the web, and surely that can't be all the instructors in the UK, there are'nt enough listed.  Haven't the DSA made membership and listing in ORDIT mandatory ?

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#22 20-03-08 08:21:07

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,597

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Get the instructors' ADI number, you can then get this checked out with the DSA to find out if they are legit.  The ORDIT register is for Instructor Trainers.
Also, due to the Freedom of Information Act ADIs have the right to withhold their info to make their details public.  There was an A-Z of Driving Instructors on the DSA website a while ago but this was removed when the Act came into force.  The DSA want to change this to make the ADIs details available plus what grade they are.

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#23 20-03-08 08:24:07

driverpete
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 06-02-06
Posts: 457

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

If you look on the back of the Green Badge you'll see the instructor's ADI number. I think I'm right in saying that you should be able to check this out with the DSA (although I stand to be corrected on that point).

ORDIT is the Official Register of Driving Instructor Trainers and is only concerned with the training (or retraining) of driving instructors so unless your son's instructor also trains driving instructors you won't find him on there.


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#24 20-03-08 08:25:34

driverpete
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 06-02-06
Posts: 457

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

Oops. Didn't see you nipping in there Vanda.


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#25 20-03-08 09:26:46

Dimmy
Guest

Re: Is my son being taken for a ride (literally !)...

My typical novice driver usually starts to drive to and from home by about hours 7-10.

I have one pupil that is currently on hour 20 and I still do not envisage her being able to cope with the traffic situations and high hazard levels on the road leading to her house for at least another 10 hours.

I've never had a novice drive home after 2 hours and really cannot for the life of me beleive that any novice would gain from being talked home in my area so soon into their training. Irrespective of their instructors ability.
I'd go so far as to say such practice in my area would be wholly irresponsible for any instructor.
If not due to the high risk of irrational behaviour of a pupil, even if the talk through is the best in the country, what will the pupil actually gain from such experience so early into the training?

This is posted with area relevance in mind, and even I'd possibly consider talking someone home if the training area was a suitable distance and the road/traffic conditions were favourable to the lesson subject and pupils ability. (I actually have done so with 1 pupil in Wilts on lesson 3, but I wouldn't entertain doing so in East London).

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