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#1 18-02-05 21:01:00

Alibran
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Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

I went out for an assessment drive with an ADI today, and he said my main problem was leaving my gear selection too late on the approach to junctions.  I had so much to take in at the time that I didn't realise that I didn't totally understand what he said.  Since he said the result of my late gear selection was that I was often over the line by the time I'd finished the gear change, I think it was mainly a problem on emerging.

What I've been trying to do is wait until I can see whether I can go or not before I decide which gear to use, which is obviously wrong because my gear changes are too late.  I talked to my partner (who only passed her test a year ago and is still driving mostly as she was taught), and she said she doesn't know anything about it but, "I always change into second gear on the approach to junctions unless I know I'll have to stop," which actually seemed pretty useful to me and would resolve my late gear change problem.  My only worry is that it could be classed as changing down through the gears if I subsequently find, when I reach the junction, that I have to stop.

So, is this what I should be doing?  Or am I going completely off track here?

18-02-05 21:01:00

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Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions



#2 18-02-05 22:38:09

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

In an ideal world you shouldn't be selecting a new gear until you have done all the slowing down you need to and KNOW what gear you are going to need.  Yes fine, for a learner we can suggest they select 2nd initially, but that would be too inflexible as they gain experience.  Slow down and then select the gear for the speed.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#3 18-02-05 23:03:08

adi chris
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Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Hi Alibran I used to go down the box 5,3,2,1 ect, But I was told on my part two and three training you should, if approaching say a closed junction where you can't see the road your entering put it in to first about 3-4 car lenghts form the junction then proceed at walking pace to mouth of the junction, On open junctions and roundabouts look for a gap you can safely pull in to and adjust your speed as necessary If that means crawling upto the junctions in first or second, or thrid on roundabouts it is easier and more environment friendly than stopping and then pulling off again, and the pupils will find it easier too.
Others will have diffrent ways i am sure but i find this easy for the pupils(x3 now) to under stand and not stall panicking trying to pull out onto roundabouts.
I think you answered you own question a bit by saying you changed to late coming up to junctions, why not slow down a lot more an approach and give your self more time, Ignore the prats behind that are trying to get into your boot, you have to start ignoreing them for when you start taking pupils out .


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#4 18-02-05 23:05:19

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

pdi chris wrote:

....Ignore the prats behind that are trying to get into your boot, you have to start ignoreing them for when you start taking pupils out .

Ignore them at your peril!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#5 18-02-05 23:12:14

adi chris
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Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

I was a paratrooper for 13 years just got out, into bodybuilding in a big way and 17 stone so some boy racers do get quite a shock seeing me glaring in the instructors seat.

#6 18-02-05 23:20:58

Alibran
Guest

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Thanks for your response, Nigel.  And maybe I'm being incredibly thick here, but what you've described is what I've already been told, and I've tried to do it and I'm not managing to do it successfully.  I'll try to be more precise about the problem I'm having.

I can recognise that there are some junctions where you know in advance that you'll have to stop and then select 1st gear - such as where there are "stop" signs or other traffic is already waiting.  I also know of at least one junction round here where you have a very clear line of visibility and can emerge in 3rd if the road is clear (I'm not sure if this is something you should do or not, but since it's not on any test route, that isn't an issue for me).  Those I have no problem with.

However, the road I live in, for example, isn't so clear to me.  Since it's a residential area with narrow roads, lots of parked cars and children, I never get out of 2nd gear.  As I approach the end of our road, in 2nd gear, the junction slowly opens up until I can see whether it's safe to emerge.  At this point, I can either continue in 2nd, or I have time to stop and select 1st if something is coming.  All fine.

If it was safe to use a higher speed in this road, however, and I was in 3rd gear as I came towards the junction, I would find it more difficult.  What I have been doing with junctions like this is to slow right down on the approach but stay in 3rd (or 4th if I'm already in 4th) until I can see whether it's safe to emerge, then select 2nd (or slow down and stop if necessary).  But since I'm so close to the junction by this time, I don't have time to complete the change to 2nd gear before I reach the lines, with the result that I'm beginning the turn before I complete the gear change.  Which is obviously wrong.

So what should I do?

Sorry to be such a pain, but I'm just not getting this, and it's really frustrating.

#7 18-02-05 23:24:11

Alibran
Guest

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Thanks, Chris.  You obviously posted while I was trying to write that long winded explanation.

So, are you saying that, in the situation I described above, it would be OK to change to 2nd on the approach?

#8 18-02-05 23:35:29

adi chris
Guest

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

I would change to second on approach to the junction, if you did see traffic and then had to change to first to go slowly or stop, then you are acting according to the road conditions. Chris.

#9 19-02-05 00:16:41

donegalbiddy
Guest

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Hi

Only my opinion and understanding but i thought thought you  should have been going slow enough coming up to the junction to decide which gear to choose, therefore, why choose second on approach, if you might need first?  roll

#10 19-02-05 06:46:44

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

How would 2nd make any difference?  You can go just as slow while you assess the junction in 3, 4 or 5 except that in the higher gears the clutch just mnay need to go down a little sooner.  It sounds as if you aren't slowing down quite enough to give you that extra few milliseconds of time.  Slowing down just a tiny bit more could make all the difference.

For part 2 it wouldn't really matter if you did change down to 2nd and then had to change down again, we are getting into a bit of a purist situation here.  Don't forget the possibility that the ADI could be wrong, but if you say there are times when you are still gear changing when you need to steer then it doesn't sound like it.

To get more cost effective tuition, consider joining your local IAM or RoSPA group, much more cost effective than a local ADI.

Where are you based Alibran?

Good luck

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#11 19-02-05 10:29:50

Midge
Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 414
Website

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Just one little bit  I didn't understand, you said  "or should I stop and put it into first gear".  Why do you have to stop if you want first gear. Most modern cars will allow you to change into first gear if you are doing less than ten mph.   If you are going less than ten,  there isn't a choice, it's got to be first gear, you can hold it on the clutch for a few seconds if neccessary, while you double check,  then hand brake if it isn't clear.    I always put it into the gear that is correct at the time I can see it's clear, or into first if I'm really close, and going slow enough (should be slow enough if you are close to the junction  and can't see)  One gear change for one junction usually, but not always of course.


Midge  -   Dip D.I.

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#12 19-02-05 15:07:25

rachdrive
Member
From: wirral
Registered: 08-03-04
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Hi Alibran,

It is very simple really. Has your instructor talked about open and closed junctions?

Approach for a closed junction with give way lines: 1st gear rolling stop
ie. slow down to a crawl and get into first before the junction, then look to see if you can continue.

Approach to open junction: pretty much the same as approaching to turn..choose a gear relating to the speed you are doing and the amount of steering involved if the road is clear, if not do the above.

On approach to anything else(roundabouts etc)......think BRAKE to SLOW   GEAR to GO!!

All gear changes should have been well planned and not taking place as you are having to steer..ie..Before any end of road lines.

Hope that helps

Rach 8)


Driving is for life.........Not just for xmas!!!!!

www.boydsdrivertraining.co.uk

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#13 19-02-05 16:02:38

luchell
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Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

if youre training to pass your part two, DO NOT confuse yourself getting free help from iam or rospa. i have both and am on my part two training they teach you to a different system called roadcraft. im just changing my driving to the dsa way of doing things. if you want practise do your diamond advanced test as this is assessed the same as the part two.theres nothing wrong as such with either system theyre just different and you dont want to confuse yourself


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#14 21-02-05 07:38:18

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

luchell wrote:

if youre training to pass your part two, DO NOT confuse yourself getting free help from iam or rospa. i have both and am on my part two training they teach you to a different system called roadcraft. im just changing my driving to the dsa way of doing things. if you want practise do your diamond advanced test as this is assessed the same as the part two.theres nothing wrong as such with either system theyre just different and you dont want to confuse yourself

What confusion?  The main difference that comes to mind is DSA, you don't move towards centre of road approaching a LH bend whereas IAM & Rospa you do.  The idea of brakes to slow and gears to go and the approaching of a T junction is the same.  So I don't really see why confusion should come in to it.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#15 21-02-05 11:10:08

luchell
Guest

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

i just cant understand why you would want to confusee someone like that. the iam observer may not be aware of whats required for part two. if youre saying go out for an hour and tell them you just want to look at gears ok. just seems a bit odd to me is all. each to their own nigel. i personally wouldnt dream of it as theres a chance of confusion. i think stick with a good adi for this one.

#16 21-02-05 11:11:47

luchell
Guest

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

oh btw i understand what youre saying and yes they are the main differences but what happens if your observer starts questioning the things youre doing? im just giving my personal opinion

#17 21-02-05 11:30:05

Alibran
Guest

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Thanks for all the responses.  I'm going out to get some driving practice today, so I'll bear all your comments in mind and try to see where I'm going wrong.

Midge, that was a very relevent point you made regarding 1st gear (although I think you misquoted me slightly).  I did spend 10 years, out of a total 14 driving, regularly driving an old jeep without synchromesh on 1st gear, so that's probably had an effect on my driving.  I don't think I use 1st gear for anything other than moving off.  I'll have to try to drive "normally" for a bit today, and see.

Rach, from what you were saying about open and closed junctions, it seems as if a "2nd gear" junction is one where you have the same amount of visibility as you have on a turn.  Is that correct?  If it is, then I'm obviously not using 1st gear anywhere near often enough.

Nigel, I'm totally confident that the ADI in question is correct in his assessment of my driving, and I'm quite happy to pay for his knowledge and experience.  Since there seems to be some disagreement over whether joining IAM or RoSPA would be sensible while I'm doing part 2, I think I'll leave it until after I've passed this test.  It's still something I'd like to do, though, and I'm hoping to get my partner to join as well.

Thanks again for all your advice.  Hopefully, I can now go out and get this problem sorted.

#18 21-02-05 21:05:11

rachdrive
Member
From: wirral
Registered: 08-03-04
Posts: 149
Website

Re: Part 2 - gears on approach to junctions

Hi Alibran,

Yes, more or less. Basically if you cannot see the traffic at a junction from about 2 car lengths before the line, then it is closed and would require 1st. (this is a rough estimate)!!!

Keep practicing and all will be well I am sure!!

Rach  8)


Driving is for life.........Not just for xmas!!!!!

www.boydsdrivertraining.co.uk

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