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#1 12-11-07 21:37:26

pinball
Verified Member
From: lancashire
Registered: 18-11-06
Posts: 1,149
Website

ADI`s only/lesson

Who thinks the DSA should make it compulsory to have driving lessons with ADI`S only,
Your opions would be welcomed.

And do you think it will make the industry better in regards to work load for ADI`S

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12-11-07 21:37:26

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Re: ADI`s only/lesson



#2 13-11-07 09:17:55

koolchick
Member
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 225

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Well I've always said the eyesight test should not be done as it would save time that you could be tested on actual driving and I used to stuggle with it but ok now due to new glasses tho even with these I worried that I mite fail it but never did. So with no eyesight test all tests would have to be taken in dual controled cars like ADIs have so yes I agree.

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#3 27-11-07 17:32:15

iwanadrive
Member
Registered: 25-05-07
Posts: 110

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

I think that you should start with having lessons with the instructor but when you are at a good level i think its beneficial having lessons with someone else as well.  I wouldn't have made half as much progress if it wasn't for the fact that i go out with my partner three times a week to practice in my car.  It's meant i do more thinking for myself, get used to more driving situations, become more confident and practice the maneuvers more regularly.

I don't think learning just with a partner or parent is very wise but i think if they are an addition to a driving instructor then they can work well together.

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#4 28-11-07 08:25:23

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Lessons only with an ADI? Oh boy I wanna go to the UK it would be an ADI's paradise.

Seriously Pinball, are you differentiating between "lesson with ADI" and "practice with family member or friend", or lumping them both together?
Our philosophy down here is that the best way to go is: "learn techniques with a professional, then practice privately. And you can't get enough practice".

...I don't think learning just with a partner or parent is very wise but i think if they are an addition to a driving instructor then they can work well together...

Good philosophy!

Of course it means that the professional has to iron out bad habits picked up with the lay person and at times these can be quite extreme and hard to eradicate - as with one of my lessons with a young Chinese girl today: "but Dad says you must always push the clutch in every time you use the brake"  - however the benefits of 'private practice' will outweigh this problem.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#5 28-11-07 08:33:23

jonsmithuk
Verified Member
Registered: 27-10-07
Posts: 403

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

At risk of repeating myself, there are too many PDIs teaching. Saw an instructor on this site is still offering lessons at £16 per hour. Thats desperation, and harmful to everyone in the industry. While the DSA sanctions PDI farms and issues thousands of licenses when the industry is already overloaded with ADIs there will be insufficient work for newly qualified instructors.

Who thinks the DSA should make it compulsory to have driving lessons with ADI`S only,
Your opions would be welcomed.

And do you think it will make the industry better in regards to work load for ADI`S

Once pupils are safe to practice with their parents, and I mean at a level of skill that makes it enjoyable for all concerned, then private practice is going to make their confidence grow and there is no substitute for time on the road.

Jon

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#6 28-11-07 09:51:00

kjs
Verified Member
From: Rossendale Lancashire
Registered: 20-05-06
Posts: 976
Website

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Well I've always said the eyesight test should not be done as it would save time that you could be tested on actual driving and I used to stuggle with it but ok now due to new glasses tho even with these I worried that I mite fail it but never did. So with no eyesight test all tests would have to be taken in dual controled cars like ADIs have so yes I agree.

I apologise if i've read you wrong here koolchick, but doing away with the eyesight test is a disaster waiting to happen. Ask yourself this, if you were involved in an accident , injured or not,and the other person's eyesight was poor, what would you say ?

I have already this year refused 2 pupils lessons until they had their eyesight checked and the appropriate glasses acquired.

As an ADI, I wouldn't want the responsibility of squeezing some one through a test knowing that they run a risk of causing a major accident do to not being able to spot hazards. Yes I know that the risk is there with any new driver, but it it vastly increased when the driver can't see properly .

Like I said, I apologise if I read you wrong.

kjs

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#7 28-11-07 12:30:19

pinball
Verified Member
From: lancashire
Registered: 18-11-06
Posts: 1,149
Website

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Ok guys thanks for replies, Maybe there is another question do you think we should sign a form to say private practice with friends/family to say they are at a good safe standard to start private practice?

Example teaching lad at the moment who has had 5 lessons and just brought in main roads for the 1st time, Anyway arrived for lessons today to be told been out with dad in his corsa. Good I said how did it go and were did you go etc?

Not to bad we nearly crashed a couple of times and i sh!t myself.
so i do think some people don`t have the common sense or ability to teach learners on early stages of their lessons.
And it was only recently a read an article saying most accidents caused by learners are whilst learning in their own vehicles.

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#8 28-11-07 14:47:37

Dimmy
Guest

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Well I've always said the eyesight test should not be done as it would save time that you could be tested on actual driving and I used to stuggle with it but ok now due to new glasses tho even with these I worried that I mite fail it but never did. So with no eyesight test all tests would have to be taken in dual controled cars like ADIs have so yes I agree.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should allow a driver behind the wheel of my car without me assessing their eyesight? You admit to struggling with the eyesight check but are OK with it now, for Gods sake woman, listen to your own sentences and consider the sanity of attempting to drive a car if you cannot even read a number plate EASILY at the prescribed distance.


At risk of repeating myself, there are too many PDIs teaching. Saw an instructor on this site is still offering lessons at £16 per hour. Thats desperation, and harmful to everyone in the industry. While the DSA sanctions PDI farms and issues thousands of licenses when the industry is already overloaded with AIDS there will be insufficient work for newly qualified instructors

Jon, Woolworths seem to do OK even though many of them have a Poundstretcher next door.
Bleating on and on and Ariston about too many PDI's taking all the work is neither productive nor really particularly accurate.
If you want job protection and jobs for the boys I believe there are still 1 or 2 where the unions are still active, feel free to change careers.

PDI's have reached the MINIMUM standard to be permitted to teach and charge.

Class room assistants are not fully qualified yet allowed to practice their craft as part of their training process to be come fully qualified teachers, they have reached the minimum standards for the job they do..
Community support officers are often trainee police officers in waiting. They have reached the minimum standard for the job they do.

Bleat bleat bleat bleat bleat. So tedious.

#9 28-11-07 17:18:42

jonsmithuk
Verified Member
Registered: 27-10-07
Posts: 403

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Three out of four PDIs do NOT ever qualify. I don't dispute they are legally able to teach and charge, but they haven't reached any standard of tuition. Classroom assistants are assisting, CSOs are unable to use powers of a policeman. You seem to think that PDIs will all earn £30,000 + PA. and are as good as a long term qualified ADI. They are given the same rights as an ADI and "teach" on their own unsupervised. I think there are too many of them, which is demonstrated by all the questions about earnings and how long it takes to build a business as an instructor.

When one in five is taught by unqualified teachers standards can only fall. There is a place for a PDI badge. I firmly believe there should be a further stage between pt2 and pt 3 of the ADI exams. I also believe that the training "colleges " should be curtailed as 8,000 PDIs is too many.

Bleat Bleat Bleat...So true !

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#10 28-11-07 17:31:08

Dimmy
Guest

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Three out of four PDIs do NOT ever qualify. I don't dispute they are legally able to teach and charge, but they haven't reached any standard of tuition. Classroom assistants are assisting, CSOs are unable to use powers of a policeman. You seem to think that PDIs will all earn £30,000 + PA. and are as good as a long term qualified ADI. They are given the same rights as an ADI and "teach" on their own unsupervised. I think there are too many of them, which is demonstrated by all the questions about earnings and how long it takes to build a business as an instructor.

When one in five is taught by unqualified teachers standards can only fall. There is a place for a PDI badge. I firmly believe there should be a further stage between pt2 and pt 3 of the ADI exams. I also believe that the training "colleges " should be curtailed as 8,000 PDIs is too many.

Bleat Bleat Bleat...So true !

Jon, not ALL PDI's go on a trainee license, (approx 50%).
you seem to be using the approx pass rate for part 3 as the pass rate for pdi's. It is not. it is the pass rate for the test. Some PDI's take all 3 attempts  (I was one).
I have never said PDI's will earnt £30k+ nor stated ?I thought they would.

I have never stated that PDI's are better than long time served ADI's  but as you have brought this one up, I am convinced I was a far superior instructor whilst on a trainee license than some of the long serving ADI's in my area. I cannot and will not ever say ALL PDI's  or even MANY PDI's are better than long time served ADI's. But that is not to say there are some 1st class instructors out there that are teaching but not yet fully qualified. There are also some really APPALING instructors out there that are fully qualified.

I did not magically become a better instructor the day I passed the part3. I had the same pupils, teaching the same methods and with the same abilities as the day before I qualified as an ADI.

Your last post contained factual errors, mis-represented statitistics and attributed imagined comments as supportive evidence to your opinions regarding trainees.

IMHO,  (and using the bleating anology more), your post was little more than baaaaa locks.


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#11 28-11-07 17:41:55

Dimmy
Guest

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

meanwhile, back to the topic...................

Who thinks the DSA should make it compulsory to have driving lessons with ADI`S only,
Your opions would be welcomed.

And do you think it will make the industry better in regards to work load for ADI`S

Private practice has a place, and a very useful place, for learner drivers. Although it is rare for solely private tuition to produce very competant novice drivers, complimetary private practice in support of professional tuition has been proved to produce high standard candidates at test.

Sadly, all too often there are ADI's that use the argument of ADI only tuition solely in an attempt to increase pupil hours for ADI's. Although that may well be a product of any such legislation it is not a valid argument for introducing such legislation IMHO.


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#12 28-11-07 23:02:31

kjs
Verified Member
From: Rossendale Lancashire
Registered: 20-05-06
Posts: 976
Website

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

meanwhile, back to the topic...................

pinball wrote:

Who thinks the DSA should make it compulsory to have driving lessons with ADI`S only,
Your opions would be welcomed.

And do you think it will make the industry better in regards to work load for ADI`S

Private practice has a place, and a very useful place, for learner drivers. Although it is rare for solely private tuition to produce very competant novice drivers, complimetary private practice in support of professional tuition has been proved to produce high standard candidates at test.

Sadly, all too often there are ADI's that use the argument of ADI only tuition solely in an attempt to increase pupil hours for ADI's. Although that may well be a product of any such legislation it is not a valid argument for introducing such legislation IMHO.

Totally agree Dimmy

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#13 28-11-07 23:50:55

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

...do you think we should sign a form to say private practice with friends/family to say they are at a good safe standard to start private practice?...

I see your point.

I often note what type of vehicle a student does their private practice in, it often explains why some have certain types of problems in the training car (e.g. lessons in small car, practice in heavy 4WD etc), and it also helps me to construct my advice on their private practice during the end-of-lesson debrief.

For example, after the very first lesson I might advise them to wait a few more lessons before going out privately, or to have their father drive them to a nursery area and do very simple exercises.
As their skills progress, the advice might detail certain manoeuvres, or a comment like "don't practice this manoeuvre with the family just yet, wait till you've done it with me 1 or more times".

Most of my teenage students have already been out with a parent before their first lesson with me. In the case of bush kids, many have driving illegally all over the place as soon as their feet could reach the pedals, and probably started on tractors at a very early age. I had a sixteen year old girl who once said ("I didn't get much practice this week, I haven't finished repairing the gearbox in my own car yet". It turned out that yes, she WAS doing major repairs on her own car.

Our subsidised driver training program for teenagers has rules preventing them from doing more than 2 subsidised lessons a week, and the practical test cannot be done unless they have been on their learner's Licence for 6 months - all in an attempt to encourage private practice.

Some Australian states also issue logbooks and test candidates must have a certain number of hours of behind the wheel experience before getting their first solo licence (50 hours in S.A., 120 hours in Victoria). There's no stipulation whether it's private or professional experience, as long as a they have looged the hours, and a certain amount must be at night.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#14 29-11-07 22:25:53

iwanadrive
Member
Registered: 25-05-07
Posts: 110

Re: ADI`s only/lesson

Whenever i have a lesson with my instructor he will ask me what i have been up to in my own car and i will go through any problem areas or any queries i had when having gone out for private practice.  My own instructor feels it has really benefited me going out for private practice and is always encouraging me to do so. 

I find it really beneficial though that at the start of the lesson i can talk to him about how my private practice has gone and things that i could change or can bring from my private practice, to going out in his car.

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