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#1 20-08-07 22:08:15

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Exhaust Brakes

I have been driving LGV's for more years than I care to mention neutral and have used various types of exhaust brakes in various makes of Lorry's over the years, today I came across an exhaust brake that when applied really had a significant reduction in speed, it had 2 settings and when used on the 2nd setting it was "almost" like touching the footbrake, it really slowed the vehicle so much so that i was thinking of the car behind me not noticing I was slowing, so I "feathered" the foot brake to alert him with the lights.

OK OK Question time smile

Q - anyone think that the "Exhaust brake" should be linked up to the brake lights or maybe an extra light to inform following vehicles of the reduction in speed?


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20-08-07 22:08:15

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Re: Exhaust Brakes



#2 21-08-07 06:55:00

Dimmy
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Re: Exhaust Brakes

Exhaust brakes shouldn't be able to slow a diesel vehicle any more rapidly then a normally aspirated petrol engine slows under de-throttling.

In theory, some modern air brakes can actually stall the engine by creating so much negative airflow that the pressure is enough to prevent the pistons from rising, resulting in wheels locking up (and likely engine damage).

Designers of modern airbrakes take this into account and design air brake systems to work within the engine manufacturers guidelines (40-60psi for most european built engines), spring released pressure valves are fitted to prevent excess pressure build up.

I know Fords have recently been installing Banks air brakes, which I believe are the first mass produced computer controlled airbraking systems.

If ther truck you drove recently really did have so much air braking ability that it slowed the vehicle more than the average petrol driven car under de-throttling perhaps the airbrake computer settings have been incorrectly set and the unit needs servicing? It's possible that the owners have incorrectly considered that increasing the airbrakes backflow setting would improve fuel consumption. (it doesn't).

#3 21-08-07 07:30:09

FRANKS
Verified Member
From: WALES
Registered: 05-06-06
Posts: 530

Re: Exhaust Brakes

I thought exhaust brakes were linked to the brake lights as are TELMAS


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#4 21-08-07 07:35:51

reddragonbus
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From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,653

Re: Exhaust Brakes

I wouldnt use an exhaust brake or retarder as my primary means of reducing speed except in an emergency, I would use the foot brake first then use the retarder to assist or to maintain lower speed.


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#5 21-08-07 07:53:38

Dimmy
Guest

Re: Exhaust Brakes

I agree with RDB.
Consider what exhaust brakes are there for. Primarily to control speed on gradients. The new computerized systems operate automatically when a pre-determined over-run level is detected.
Driver operated systems should be used for those same occasions only.

The way that exhaust braking technology is changing perhaps is one good example of CPC will benfit the haulage industry. Keeping drivers upto date on not just safety and eco driving but also on techological changes to the vehicles they drive.

#6 21-08-07 16:55:11

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Exhaust Brakes

I had a few positive replies to this on an Advanced driving forum, it seems there are a few vehicles out there that light the brake lights up when the exhaust brake is applied on the "2nd" stage.

I tend to use the EB on steep gradients as this is its main function, but it can also be used on motorways if getting to close to vehicle in front prior to a lane change, or on rural roads approaching corners/bends, its "non wear and tear" and should be used WHERE POSSIBLE prior to footbrake, obviously I agree and continue to use the footbrake as my primary method for slowing/stopping, but as a method to reduce a couple of mph, this is ideal.

It seems from the other forum that some companies train out the use of the EB and the consequences of following vehicles, maybe "learners" could be made aware of this also?


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#7 24-08-07 20:14:50

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Exhaust Brakes

Some comments from another forum, and it seems that some Exhaust brakes on LGV's ARE able to slow a diesel vehicle more rapidly than a normally aspirated petrol engine slows under de-throttling :evil: :evil: :evil:




Com 1 - We run some Dennis Darts and the retarder on these is brilliant it is so progressive and the different stages overlap so well it is like normal progressive braking,

Com 2 - As for the MAN,s that we run the retarder on that kicks in like someone has just thrown a switch  ,its absolutely diabolical.

Com 3 - Both of these systems though operate the brake lights as soon as they come into play.

Com 3 - Many of the "simple" exhaust brakes have little effect unless the engine revs are high enough, only sufficing to keep the speed steady, not significantly slowing the vehicle.


Com 4 - The simple one on the volvo unit we use is very fierce - to slow down for an approaching hazard the trainees do not have to touch the main brakes

Com 5 - Usually the high efficiency engine brakes like the "Jake" brake, or transmission retarders which have "stages" of retardation, do activate the brake lights on application of the higher levels.


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#8 08-12-07 15:01:49

Iggy
Verified Member
From: West London
Registered: 13-05-06
Posts: 73
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Re: Exhaust Brakes

Just to chuck in my 2p's worth...  big_smile

My Scania 420 has a seven stage retarder/attenuator. When I move the lever to the seventh position it is very effective at slowing the vehicle down. Got to admit though, I've never noticed if it operates the brake lights. I'll have a look next time I use it.  big_smile

I don't see why anyone would want to "train out" the use of auxiliary braking systems? There's a time and a place for them to be used, surely that should be "trained in"?


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#9 09-12-07 12:10:17

storminnorman
Verified Member
From: Norfolk
Registered: 16-09-06
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Exhaust Brakes

I agree with Iggy that we should be training in the use of auxiliary braking systems.  Our Volvo and Dennis coaches have simple exhaust brakes that really do not need the brake lights to come on as it's just like coming off the gas on the level. 
We also have Optare and Irisbus (Renault chassis) buses which have the retarder automatically coupled into the footbrake.  Both of these you would not want to use the normal air footbrake to stop you, its far too sharp, but by using the retarder sensibly, very smooth braking can be achieved.  Obviously with both of these you get brake lights straight away.

Our latest coach is a Marcopolo which is built on an Iveco chassis.  It has a four (? I think) stage retarder which is excellent.  I have only driven it once and am really not sure about the brake lights.  You have got me thinking now, so I really must check.  Fortunately it's been allocated to one dedicated driver, so the trainees once passed are unlikly to get their hands on it.

Good point about Driver CPC though.  It will certainly be an opportunity for them to get to know more about new systems etc, both for the newcomers and the existing drivers.  When you think that lots of drivers have had no formal traing since passing their test, which may for some have been many years ago.


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#10 09-12-07 19:04:51

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Exhaust Brakes

"train out" - "trained in"?

terminology Igyy, thats all.......................

I now bring this into learner lessons, just a short brief(2mins) included in my D/way lesson plan, mentioning that, LGV's and buses may seem to lose speed without the brake lights coming on, this may be due to the use of an exhaust brake.
I have also been given the task of ensuring all our drivers use the exhaust brake more effectively, hopefully making our drivers more fuel efficient and reduce wear & tear on the braking system.


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#11 07-02-08 21:20:15

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Exhaust Brakes

Just got 6 Volvo's delivered to us and, the exhaust brakes DO put the brake lights on.
this only happens in severe situations when the exhaust brake is on the stage 2, the revs are in the "blue" section(usually a drop of gear req) and the brake blending switch has been applied(normally run with it on all the time)


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