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#1 01-08-07 19:04:55

koolchick
Member
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 225

Leaving keys in car

On a lesson today went well near end of lesson my ADI gets me to pull up in petrol station so he can go shop and get change for my lesson (no problem as it was sort of extra time read my blog for details) As he got out of car he asked me to pass him the car key which I did and joked why didn't he trust me. He answered that ADIs are not allowed to leave keys in car when pupil is on there own. Is this true as both my previous ADIs have left keys in car when they haven't been in it (I didn't move the car without them in) Do other ADIs take keys with them when pupil is in car on there own. Of course I understand the reason some mite obviously pupils could drive off without ADI in car with the keys.

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01-08-07 19:04:55

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Re: Leaving keys in car



#2 01-08-07 19:20:01

madison
Member
From: Bucks
Registered: 20-04-06
Posts: 125

Re: Leaving keys in car

My ADI left his keys in the car when he wasn't in it, although it was only briefly

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#3 01-08-07 19:22:28

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,597

Re: Leaving keys in car

I would never, EVER leave my keys in the ignition, or anywhere else for that matter, unless I was there.  Your ADI was right to take keys with him.  Apart from anything, insurance would be invalid if you were to say, move the car a fraction because someone at the pump was giving you grief to move up or something, you crashed. Not worth it.  ADI take keys end of.

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#4 01-08-07 19:23:43

pj
Verified Member
From: surrey
Registered: 27-02-05
Posts: 1,794

Re: Leaving keys in car

I take the keys with me.


PJ Dip DI

if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

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#5 01-08-07 19:25:19

L33d5.dr
Verified Member
From: Wakefield
Registered: 23-03-06
Posts: 93

Re: Leaving keys in car

Hi Koolchick,
     I was told it would be against the law if a learner was sat in the drivers seat on their own with the keys in the ignition.You would be in possesion of a car without a full licence and unaccompanied by a qualified driver.Your instructor was just playing it safe.

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#6 01-08-07 19:33:41

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Leaving keys in car

NO WAY !! Thats my answer  neutral

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#7 01-08-07 19:48:35

sam19
Member
Registered: 02-09-06
Posts: 54

Re: Leaving keys in car

when i was learning i was left quite a lot with the keys in ignition once or twice with engine still running but he always took them when going in petrol station as he has to use the key to unlock the petrol thing ( cant think of what its called lol) my adi was friends with my family so i think he trusted me.

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#8 01-08-07 19:50:29

L33d5.dr
Verified Member
From: Wakefield
Registered: 23-03-06
Posts: 93

Re: Leaving keys in car

Sorry luchell,really annoying when that happens isn't it  big_smile

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#9 01-08-07 19:57:00

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Leaving keys in car

Your ADI was talking a load of !   Not against the law at all.  All he needed to say is that he always takes the keys with him when he leaves the car.

It makes sense for the ADI to keep hold of the keys - simply playing safe!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#10 01-08-07 20:00:41

koolchick
Member
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 225

Re: Leaving keys in car

I have no problem with him taking keys or not just made me wonder when both my other ADIs always left keys in.

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#11 01-08-07 20:30:11

Dimmy
Guest

Re: Leaving keys in car

I have to be honest here and say I do not know wether a learner driver sitting alone in the car with the keys is legal or not. Afterall, if a parent puts the kids in the car and leaves key in ignition then remembers has forgotten handbag and goes to get it, is the child then considered in charge of the vehicle? Likewise a non licensed relative such as grandma?

The law says a provisional license holder must be accompanied by a full license holder (and a few other requirements) whilst DRIVING, but from memory I do not recall the requirement for an accompanying driver for the purposes of being in charge of the vehicle.

Personally, if the pupil is leaving the driver's seat, or I'm getting out the vehicle for any reason, then the keys are handed to me. Last thing I want is a pupil zooming off with the car, or a passerby jumping in the vehicle while pupil and I swap seats.

Likewise, as a locksmith I know how easy it is for modern vehicles to self secure themselves, and if that happens to my driving school car, I'd rather have the key in my hand rather than have to go home and get my entry tools, or go to hassle of getting the office to arrange the delivery of 1 of the spare keys.

#12 01-08-07 22:16:29

L33d5.dr
Verified Member
From: Wakefield
Registered: 23-03-06
Posts: 93

Re: Leaving keys in car

I was told by a police officer that being in the drivers seat with keys in the ignition is seen as being in charge of a vehicle.If it was different then an illegal driver,without a licence or over the limit,could just pull up at the side of the road and turn the engine off if they thought they were going to get pulled up.Being in charge of a vehicle does not mean you have to actually be driving it.He wasn't a traffic cop but it sounded right to me.This is going to be one of those really annoying useless pieces of information that I just have to find the correct answer to.Does anyone know any traffic cops so they can find out,if so give them a call now. They won't mind it's late because it's an emergency,I need to know or I won't be able to sleep. :? :?

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#13 01-08-07 23:04:08

Disky
Verified Member
From: Central Scotland
Registered: 10-03-05
Posts: 1,333
Website

Re: Leaving keys in car

hmmmmmmmmm strange one,,,,

Law states "drunk in charge" i.e. you can still be done if you are in possession of the keys even if you are sitting in the passenger seat.

Would this be the same sort of thing for insurance ?

I know at our local TC, if the ex abandons a test (i have witnessed this 3 times) they leave the pupil in the car wit the keys and they then walk back. Both John55 and myself have discussed this at legnth and we were told that the examiners at perfectly  entitled to abandon a test, if they do they are under no obligation to remove the keys or even secure the vehicle, the just leave it as is...

Can of worms me thinks

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#14 02-08-07 07:34:33

koolchick
Member
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 225

Re: Leaving keys in car

I was told by a police officer that being in the drivers seat with keys in the ignition is seen as being in charge of a vehicle.If it was different then an illegal driver,without a licence or over the limit,could just pull up at the side of the road and turn the engine off if they thought they were going to get pulled up.Being in charge of a vehicle does not mean you have to actually be driving it.He wasn't a traffic cop but it sounded right to me.This is going to be one of those really annoying useless pieces of information that I just have to find the correct answer to.Does anyone know any traffic cops so they can find out,if so give them a call now. They won't mind it's late because it's an emergency,I need to know or I won't be able to sleep. :? :?

Lol its not over important I just wondered as my 1st 2 ADIs always left me in car drivers side with keys in but my current one doesn't. I can't see what is wrong with a learner being in the car alone with key as long as they don't move the car they are not causing danger to anyone. Yes I am aware there is a chance they could move the car and of course that is wrong, but why shouldn't they be allowed in a car with keys alone if they can be trusted not to move it alone.

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#15 02-08-07 15:09:48

ams
Verified Member
From: West Pinchbeck, Spalding, Linc
Registered: 03-01-07
Posts: 199

Re: Leaving keys in car

Your ADI was talking a load of !   Not against the law at all.  All he needed to say is that he always takes the keys with him when he leaves the car.

Nigel

Personally I wouldn't leave a learner in the car on their own with the keys - wether its illegal or not. There have been cases of learners driving off with cars and as previous contributors ahve pointed at several other things that could happen.

I believe that if you are holding the keys, technically you are classed as in charge of the vehicle. Know a guy who was done for being drunk in charge - he had opened the passenger door to get some cigarettes out of the glovebox. So wasn't even in the drivers seat nor were the keys in the ignition.


Qualified Oct 2001 - 1st Attempt 5/4.
Cardington Grade A.
Institute of Advanced Motorists.
NVQ A1 Assessors Award.
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#16 12-08-07 20:38:56

Super Mario
Member
Registered: 05-02-07
Posts: 80

Re: Leaving keys in car

I know this is an old thread but what if you were driving a car and you had your friend with you who is not insured on the car and does not have a driving licence.  You pull into a car park and get out the car to go shopping or whatever.  Your friend doesn't want to come so you open the windows which are electric and you leave the keys with your friend.  While you are away your friend wants to shut the windows but the only way is to go round to the driver's side and and switch it the setting which allows you to shut windows and switch radio on etc.  Would your friend be committing a crime?

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#17 12-08-07 21:23:02

koolchick
Member
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 225

Re: Leaving keys in car

I don't see why it matters who is in a car with keys in alone as long as they don't move the car. Though my ADI is sticking to taking keys when he's not in car had mock test Thursday with another ADI and at end they wre talking and my ADI made sure he had car keys and reminded me what he'd told me. Heres a good one how many have left keys in car and left a kid in car alone? I have learnt not to do this though luckily nothing happened. I was looking after my 7 year old cousin and needed to start my car up so he sat in pasenger side I decide I mite as well check lights work a 2 second job out of the car. So I put lights on and check obviously leaving keys in and my cousin. He jumps to drivers side and locks me out pasenger side already locked. Luckily he opens the door for me when I tell him and its then I relise he thought I had the keys on me but I tell him the keys was still in car.

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#18 13-08-07 17:26:58

MiniClassic
Verified Member
From: Croydon
Registered: 18-01-06
Posts: 447

Re: Leaving keys in car

When I was (much) younger my dad got in trouble with a policeman for leaving me & my brother (both well under legal driving age at the time) in the car with the keys in the ignition. He was told that it was an offence & he had to grovel a bit to get on his way.

If your friend is over 18 then they're an adult & so are I suppose legally responsible - as long as they don't start it or move it there's no offence.

The difference in this case is in leaving a minor 'in charge' of the vehicle.

But to answer the original post, I never leave my keys with a pupil while paying for petrol... the only time I get out of the car without them is when pointing out a turning point for Reversing Round Corner! Or can anyone else explain 'the start of the first bent kerb stone' any better!


Ambition Driving College

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#19 17-08-07 20:48:48

kev elliott
Guest

Re: Leaving keys in car

I don't see why it matters who is in a car with keys in alone as long as they don't move the car. Though my ADI is sticking to taking keys when he's not in car had mock test Thursday with another ADI and at end they wre talking and my ADI made sure he had car keys and reminded me what he'd told me. Heres a good one how many have left keys in car and left a kid in car alone?

I know you have learnt not to Koolchick - but for anyone else read this then think again!

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1302072007


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#20 17-08-07 22:36:53

keith-adi
Verified Member
From: wirral
Registered: 19-07-06
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Leaving keys in car

tragic kev truly tragic.


We can all drive! some of us don't know it yet!     Smart Start School of Motoring
lessons available Wirral wide.

http://www.smartstart-wirral.com

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#21 09-11-08 21:35:47

David1108
Member
Registered: 09-11-08
Posts: 27

Re: Leaving keys in car

Well I know that if I was an ADI I would take the keys with me as then if someone was to try to move the car other then the pupil then no one can move it.  Not only that if a pupil did move has or her car they are not insurace as the ADI is not there.  You are under there insurace and as well as that how is he going to do his job if you damage his or her car.  So the ADI sould take the keys until he returns. 

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#22 09-11-08 22:34:22

jazzer
Member
Registered: 07-11-08
Posts: 3

Re: Leaving keys in car

I was told by a police officer that being in the drivers seat with keys in the ignition is seen as being in charge of a vehicle.If it was different then an illegal driver,without a licence or over the limit,could just pull up at the side of the road and turn the engine off if they thought they were going to get pulled up.Being in charge of a vehicle does not mean you have to actually be driving it.He wasn't a traffic cop but it sounded right to me.This is going to be one of those really annoying useless pieces of information that I just have to find the correct answer to.Does anyone know any traffic cops so they can find out,if so give them a call now. They won't mind it's late because it's an emergency,I need to know or I won't be able to sleep. :? :?

It is only unlawful if your sat in the drivers seat with the engine ON.

When I was learning my instructor always left the keys in the car, mind you he did alot of things I bet he wasen't supposed to lol!

I can see why they wouldn't, if they take the keys away then theres less room for accidents to happen! Plus, students can only drive an instructors car if they are supervised.. So taking the keys away could stop you from getting into trouble (if you did have the an urge to start the engine for whatever reason).


1st Driving Lesson: 13th June 08 (it was friday the 13th!)
Theory Test: Pass! (10th Oct 08)
1st Practical Test: Pass! (6th Nov 08) 6 minors.
Amount of Lessons (overall): 36 hours. (no private practice)

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#23 11-11-08 00:07:13

tobyphotos
Verified Member
From: North london/ Herts
Registered: 14-04-06
Posts: 163
Website

Re: Leaving keys in car

If i can have my 2 pennies worth. i always take the keys with me! illegal or not! ( it's my car)


Taking a Positive approach to learning to Drive
www.positivetuition.co.uk
+447828724510

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#24 11-11-08 02:40:21

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,697
Website

Re: Leaving keys in car

One of my students (many years ago) "taught" me to be careful what I do with the keys.

As a passenger she was in the habit of hopping out, pressing the lock button down and shutting the door (no central locking in many cars back then) at the end of a ride and also did it at the end of a driving lesson
I was in the habit of hopping out after a lesson with the engine still running* and going round to the driver's seat. (*to keep the car cool with the aircon).

Unfortunately after her first lesson Linda managed to lock all the doors on me (the training car had central locking) and there we were standing outside a locked car with the engine running!

The first time it happened I thought "oh well I'll phone the boss he'll come round with the spare keys", then the sound of a mobile ringing inside the locked car reminded me just where the mobile was.

One would think once is enough but happened 3 times in a row with Linda, believe it or not!!!!
I won't relay the boss's comments!   :oops:

Anyway a spare key was secreted away under a bumper bar but I never had to use it as I'd learned my lesson by then.

Now that I run my own cars I have spare keys in my left pocket, chained to my belt. My wallet sits in my right pocket also chained to my belt.

I haven't lost a key or wallet since I hit upon that idea 4 years ago, although twice I've tried to walk away from a Woolworths checkout with the wallet on the counter - in on case I'd managed to tow the counter an inch or to before I was suddenly brought to a stop.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#25 22-11-08 22:09:37

koolchick
Member
Registered: 14-03-07
Posts: 225

Re: Leaving keys in car

One of my students (many years ago) "taught" me to be careful what I do with the keys.

As a passenger she was in the habit of hopping out, pressing the lock button down and shutting the door (no central locking in many cars back then) at the end of a ride and also did it at the end of a driving lesson
I was in the habit of hopping out after a lesson with the engine still running* and going round to the driver's seat. (*to keep the car cool with the aircon).

Unfortunately after her first lesson Linda managed to lock all the doors on me (the training car had central locking) and there we were standing outside a locked car with the engine running!

The first time it happened I thought "oh well I'll phone the boss he'll come round with the spare keys", then the sound of a mobile ringing inside the locked car reminded me just where the mobile was.

One would think once is enough but happened 3 times in a row with Linda, believe it or not!!!!
I won't relay the boss's comments!   :oops:

Anyway a spare key was secreted away under a bumper bar but I never had to use it as I'd learned my lesson by then.

Now that I run my own cars I have spare keys in my left pocket, chained to my belt. My wallet sits in my right pocket also chained to my belt.

I haven't lost a key or wallet since I hit upon that idea 4 years ago, although twice I've tried to walk away from a Woolworths checkout with the wallet on the counter - in on case I'd managed to tow the counter an inch or to before I was suddenly brought to a stop.

Did the pupil lock the doors deliberate or was it just coincidence that it happened 3 times with same pupil?

Well I forgot about this post as I have now been driving solo over a year after passing my test last September. I can understand why some ADIs do take car keys when leaving pupil alone in car. Not sure what I'd do as I guess ADIs learn what each pupil is like so learn which ones are likely to be able to be trusted not to drive off and which mite. My 1st 2 ADIs left me in car with keys a few times it was nice that they trusted me but understood why 3rd ADI was on safe side especially with how keen I was to drive.

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