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#26 21-01-05 18:25:50

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Guernsey Driver wrote:

They weren't that different that long ago. The DSA has a lot to answer for!

I can understand that you harbour a lot of grudges against the governing body that carry out tests in Guernsey, and I am sure you are doing everything in your power to bring your particular case to justice backed with all the evidence you need as proof. 
Having read all your posts you show a lot of negativity towards the DSA and Im sure you also have proof backed up by evidence to pursue your allegations.
The rules differ in the UK as opposed to Guernsey and when letters of appointment of test is issued it quite clearly states what should or shouldn't be required for the test and there are specific rules for cars fitted with dual controls.

I would like to take this opportunity to draw your attention to the forum rules and there you will find that it states you should contribute constructively to threads and not to post negative replies solely for the purpose of causing a pointless argument.
If you do have a valid case for complaint, make sure you know the difference between the rules in the UK as opposed to the rules in Guernsey.
VandADI

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21-01-05 18:25:50

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Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.



#27 21-01-05 22:38:40

Anonymous
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Come on VandADI, where is the harm in these posts on this particular thread?  I have found Guernseys remarks very entertaining.  He is quite eloquent without any hint of profanity, which is rare today.  Some of the other posters have contradicted his replies but I do not see any aminosity on this thread.

As for Swezeley, again elequent, informative, entertaining and doesn't overreact with posters that do not agree with him.

Don't stifle free speech.  When it goes over the top then yes, crack you whip but not yet, I've not enjoyed a thread as much in ages.

As for having someone in the back, it doesn't have to be an instructor.  Dad or friend can come along if you wish.

Wessex.

#28 21-01-05 22:52:50

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Actually wessex, you do have a point.  Guernseys posts are very entertaining, we can all do with having a laugh.  Free speech is encouraged on this site but when it begins to sound so depressingly negative it can be very boring.
VandADI

Offline

#29 23-01-05 17:28:15

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

I actually agree with VandADI. It was all very well having a laugh, but I wrote without understanding the purpose of this site.

This forum is to encourage learner drivers, to promote safe driving and all in all to improve the roads in the UK (and Guernsey too!) Whilst I don't think the DSA do this, this is not the site to say so. Therefore, myself and Sweezely are in the process of writing a site with this very separate aim; we will be looking to name and shame test centres, examiners and generally any activities of the DSA we think are daft. All done in a tongue and cheek fashion!

But that's enough promotion. This is an excellent site in its own right and I would recommend it to anyone. But it is not a battleground to take on the DSA; it is somewhere to help people pass their tests.

#30 23-01-05 19:07:21

Anonymous
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

I personally enjoyed your posts and they were thought provoking.  By expressing your views it shows that not everything in the garden is rosy.  It's just so refreshing to come to a Forum where views can be exchanged without bitter reprisals.

Best of luck with the campaign.

Wessex.

#31 23-01-05 20:03:08

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Well, hopefully myself and Sweezely will get a website up shortly and you'll visit.


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#32 23-01-05 21:03:23

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

I suppose I should give an update on my complaint.

I finally got in touch with the DSA manager of the test centre on Thursday.  My phone wasn't working properly, but he did keep trying to get me, which was nice of him.  Anyway, I told him my name, and my complaint.  Now one thing I didn't mention in my first post was a complete gem from my 3rd examiner.  He said he wouldn't fail me for not wearing a seatbelt.  He said he COULDN'T fail me for not wearing a seatbelt: "I'm not here to enforce the law" he said.  He actually implied that there was nothing in the highway code about seatbelts!

When I told the manager, his reaction was, and I quote:

HE SAID WHAT??!?!!!?!?!?!"


Apart from that he was quite pleasant and said he'd get back to me once he's read the report.  And so I wait again.

I've booked another test, at a different test centre, which has a significantly higher pass rate.  As some kind of omen perhaps, the test is on my birthday!  Not only that, but the test is on Thursday 17th February.  The same date, and same day that I was born.

Watch out DSA, it looks like I've got God on my side!

#33 25-01-05 15:17:10

sods_law
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Hey sweezely, just had a phone call from my girlfriend, just taken her test and failed for stalling after doing a parking maneouvre on a quiet road?. I didn't know you could fail from stalling, aslong as you used the correct safe procedure for restarting the car...

Anyone correct me on this?

Other than that she got 7 minors...

What test centre you use for your tests? Don't remember reading it in your posts (i could be blind).

Cheers


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#34 25-01-05 16:24:49

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

sods_law wrote:

Hey sweezely, just had a phone call from my girlfriend, just taken her test and failed for stalling after doing a parking maneouvre on a quiet road?. I didn't know you could fail from stalling, aslong as you used the correct safe procedure for restarting the car...

Anyone correct me on this?

Other than that she got 7 minors...

What test centre you use for your tests? Don't remember reading it in your posts (i could be blind).

Cheers

I stalled on my last test and didn't even get a minor fault!  In fact I stalled once on my second test and didn't get a minor fault either!  Was there any other specific reason your girlfriend was failed on, or was the examiner not forthcoming with specifics?

And my test centre was Wednesbury.  I didn't write it down before because I feared the DSA might sue, considering I'm basically calling them incompetent.  But after my last conversation with the manager, I'm convinced they couldn't even organise a bleep up in a brewery. 

In a further call from the manager of the test centre, I gleaned some new and baffling info:

1) The examiner's write up of my test gave a different reason for me failing than the one he told me!
2) The reasons for failiure are considered "minor details" that the examiner doesn't have to explain
3) The DSA never make any records of any passed tests.  If you pass your test, no information on it exists, anywhere
4) Examiners refrain from taking any action unless in "extreme danger"
5) His examiners "are trained professionals and never make mistakes"
6) His examiners "don't have as much observation to do as [learner drivers]"

I'm not making up what he said.


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#35 25-01-05 19:31:49

sods_law
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

sweezely wrote:

I stalled on my last test and didn't even get a minor fault!  In fact I stalled once on my second test and didn't get a minor fault either!  Was there any other specific reason your girlfriend was failed on, or was the examiner not forthcoming with specifics?

I don't know the exact details, but from what i've been cried to down the phone is that doing a parellel park, obviously you have to take it slowly, and it was just a simple stall, not enough revs when lifting the clutch. She didn't hit anything, there was nothing coming... She assures me she put the handbrake on and started the car safely, so i'm not totally sure what reason the examiner had for failing her.  It is pretty pathetic though to fail someone for stalling when there was nothing else wrong with their driving. Maybe the DSA were a bit short of their 'failing' quota and so have to 'make up' reasons to fail people...

You never know...

#36 25-01-05 20:12:44

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Hi Sods Law, I'm the complaints arm of Sweezely's new website that should be up and running shortly. If your girlfriend wants an official complaint filed, I will be happy to do so.

Also, which test centre was the test taken at? I might be able to look at the statistics and find one with a high pass rate in your area.

#37 25-01-05 20:22:19

sods_law
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Pease Pottage test centre was where the test was taken. Ill call her later and see what she wants to do..

Cheers for the offer

#38 25-01-05 21:45:07

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Pease Pottage.......

Ah, the Crawley test centre. Yep, 39% pass rate. Another strangely low one. It's not the only one in Sussex either. Brighton is even lower.

In Sussex, I would strongly recommend Hastings with a 50% pass rate. Otherwise, Eastbourne at 46% or Chichester at 47% are pretty good. Worthing and Hove are on 45%. All the other centres have far far lower pass marks in Sussex.

#39 25-01-05 21:54:16

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Wow, those are high compared to where I'm going next... Sutton Coldfield - 44%

#40 26-01-05 20:51:23

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

It's still average. I can't believe the pass rate is in the mid 40s percent though. Are the DSA money grabbing b*stards, or are instructors actually looking to get rid of their customers asap?

What do you think?  wink

#41 31-01-05 23:33:02

TOMO 666
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

live in the East London area so the pass rates of my local test center's vary from 30% to 35%.

Anyway I agree with most that has been said I failed my test on Monday thanks to a grumpy examiner.

A month ago I did a mock test, I failed it with 14 minors (leading to two serious).  On that day I performed badly and made many mistakes.  The examiner was fair and I couldn;t argue with his assesment.

On Monday I had my test.  I got the most old, experienced and grumpy guy while everyone else got the young happy ones.  I drove the best of my life and made relative to my mock test perhaps one or two errors compared to my mock test of loads.  I thought that after my performance which was the best of my life and even some instructors would have been pround off there was no way he could fail me.  I was proved wrong.

He failed me firstly for my right turns (I turned the wheel slightly too fast) and secondly for hesitation (where he said I should have gone when a car was coming even though I would have had to race the car and my instructor in a similar situation would have slammed the breaks). 

He failed me not for errors but driving style.  After a chat between the instructor and examiner my instructor is furious and thinks my examiner wanted me to be too aggressive.  I think only boy racers could pass with this man.

What angers me to the bone is not failing but failing after doing so well.  If I had perfomed badly and made REAL errors I would have excepted it but to fail me for not driving identical to him leaves me in rage.  This examiner has no right to be on the road.

I saw other people with normal driving instructors pass even though they made real and in some cases silly errors while I had the drive off my life and failed.

It remined me of the Hazard Perception test where I failed because I clicked/reacted to fast and had to slow down and be crapper in order to pass.

The driving system in this country is mad, ability counts for nothing you just need luck.


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#42 01-02-05 09:03:04

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Guernsey Driver wrote:

It's still average. I can't believe the pass rate is in the mid 40s percent though. Are the DSA money grabbing b*stards, or are instructors actually looking to get rid of their customers asap?

What do you think?  wink

Or:
Do pupils push to take their test too soon
Do examiners mark too many minor mistakes as 'serious'
Are there too many potential manouvres meaning less on-road training time
A combination of all your reasons plus mine plus a few others

I think the last one is most likely so there is no single quick-fix solution to the problem.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#43 01-02-05 09:14:51

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

As taken from the driving examiners' recruitment website (http://dsaapply.capitaras.co.uk):

It's not just about following a tick list and adding up a score. There is a set standard which candidates must achieve; there are no set targets on how many people pass or fail. You have to assess how safe a driver that person is. There are a series of manoeuvres to follow and sometimes it becomes clear that someone is unable to control a car. You will be expected to assess the situation under the circumstances at the time, and that's not always easy. But we will train you to do so.

Two words: !!!!!!!! b*llocks.

#44 01-02-05 19:40:21

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

The recruitment site also says the bottom line is their judgement. So, in theory, they can fail you for anything they like, even listening to the wrong radio station, if it is against their judgement!

#45 02-02-05 13:31:46

Dan.Noy
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

hi i was just wondering how you find out your centres pass rate? i havent been learning long but i feel at the end of the day like all other learners i dont want to fail and end up forking out £40 here and there because its money i just haven't got. i have heard stories of the dsa 'robbing' us learners and after speaking with my dad it seems if they passed every safe driver the roads would be packed. i agree they are money grabbing. lets just hope when i come to take my test they will like my smile  wink


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#46 02-02-05 14:15:07

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Dan.Noy wrote:

hi i was just wondering how you find out your centres pass rate?

Either http://www.2pass.co.uk/passrates.htm or http://www.johnfoote.co.uk/passrates.htm

#47 03-02-05 15:49:20

luchell
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

i agree with what others have said. if i were you and youre instructors taking most of his pupils through 3 or 4 tests... find i better instructor. the shoulder checks.. you may have moved your head but is your instrucot teaching you to look to far or are you mearly kissing the parrot on your shoulder as that is as far as your head should go, its dangerous to look right round. i agree that alot of drivers seem to lose the knowledge of the highway code and believe me theyll probably pay for this at some stage. we should all be striving to obtain higher standards on the road. i would styop over practising incase youre practising the faults that keep you from passing maybe you dont know. i know you think you do but you know what youve been tought like all of us it may not be correct. get an assessment from another instructor, if they find the faults, youll know its you. if they say theres nothing wrong and youre a great driver than youll have piece of mind. put yourself in my shoes im about to take my 2nd exam to my driving instruction course. we have to drive at a far far higher standard to the l test and allowed a maximum of 6 minor faults including ALL  manouvres over an hour. the pass rates not that high, if youre not to the test standard we wont pass. for purely that reason. chances are the same if you fail your driving part 2 exam youre driving is not at the right standard even tho we might think it is. a good instructor is what you need.i understand why you feel angry but i do wish you the best of luck.

#48 03-02-05 15:57:17

luchell
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

you will find that police advanced drivers are taught a very different method of driving to the dsa standards. my fellow trainee instructor was an ex police advanced driver he had to to have a lot of training to get him out of his old habits, theres nothing wrong with them but they wont pass a dsa driving test as they drive totaaly differently.

#49 03-02-05 16:01:55

luchell
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

oh dear who is teaching you. if you on a steep hill it is essential to put the handbrake on, theres a chance you could be hit behind and fly forward, the same appplies when waiting at pedestrian crossings. before joining as a driver instructor i didnt use the hand brake much as was as i was so used to holding it on the clutch as  i thought this showed good car control. theyre promoting safety to all road users by wanting to see this.


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#50 03-02-05 16:34:27

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

luchell wrote:

oh dear who is teaching you. if you on a steep hill it is essential to put the handbrake on, theres a chance you could be hit behind and fly forward, the same appplies when waiting at pedestrian crossings. before joining as a driver instructor i didnt use the hand brake much as was as i was so used to holding it on the clutch as  i thought this showed good car control. theyre promoting safety to all road users by wanting to see this.


No, that was my fault.  Test nerves got the better of me.  It was silly not putting the handbrake on/taking it off too quickly.  I'd been taught to always put the handbrake on whilst stationary.  I just cocked up on the day.

But I don't think it's my instructor's method of teaching.  On the last two tests I performed about the same, but failed for two completely different (and untrue) things.  Neither examiner offered any advice on how to correct my mistakes, even though I asked them.  Neither would offer any specifics.  The last one didn't say where the stop sign was that I apparantly didn't stop at.  He couldn't even remember my reason for failing in his report, he actually put down a DIFFERENT reason than the one he told me.  That convinces me he was lying, or incompetant.

Well, that and not thinking seatbelts were required by the highway code, not being able to count, leaving stuff in my car, not being able to adjust a seat, failing to notice a stall...

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