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#1 19-05-07 07:59:22

KymThePeril
Member
From: Chigwell
Registered: 14-05-07
Posts: 9

Why are trainers more expensive?

Well why?  :?

I am practicing for my part 2 instructor test and think I want extra lessons but when i called around those instructors that will do training for instructors quoted me at least £10 an hour more than they charge for learner lessons and I have to take more than 2 or 3 hours at a time.
So how comes they want to charge two different hourerly rates one for learner and one for instructor part 2 practice. It is same car and same instructor and same hours? I feel they either dont want to do instructor training or just want to try to rip me off because I am a woman.
I dont mind paying for lessons but why is it so much more for me to practice than it is for a learner??? The cheapest price I found was £33.50 an hour. If Dimmy had charged me for my training than I would be 100 poorer on just one training lesson. He didnt charge me and I learnt more in that one day than I learnt in all my sessions at the colledge and that makes me think i need private training away from the colledge but there is no way my kevin will let me waste £100 a lesson on top of what we have already payed.


My kids are my world. My world needs a bigger house.

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19-05-07 07:59:22

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Re: Why are trainers more expensive?



#2 19-05-07 08:45:19

Kev D
Verified Member
From: Cheshire
Registered: 25-06-06
Posts: 306

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

ADI Trainers generally charge what all other ADI's should be able to charge for learners, but unfortunately due to many reasons, the current market will not allow ADI's to charge learners that much and survive.  There are a few ADI's who manage to charge 'What they are worth' and still have a waiting list - so what does that tell you about that ADI ? ? ?

When training, it is advisable to use someone who is vastly experienced, recommended by another, and has a good reputation for getting good results and good customer service.  Using training buddy's like dimmy who is also going through their part 3 will be beneficial to both of you, but you should always guard against taking the advice of a training buddy on its own without some other clarification from either your trainer or reference books etc.

I wish you luck with your training, and just remember, you get what you pay for usually  :evil:


Police Driver Trainer
Grade 6 ADI - May 2013

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#3 19-05-07 10:17:02

Green Arrow
Verified Member
Registered: 01-04-07
Posts: 206

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Sensible advice from Kev D above, i paid 120 pounds for a so called grade 6 trainer for 3 hours training and she sat eating chips on the phone to her pdis finding them work whilst i had paid her for that training. It was utter rubbish, i got far more from this site than i got from that! Sadly i never had a buddy well at one stage i did but he couldn't understand why i was telling him off for speeding in the Bsm astra   roll :x

So i did it alone with the help from here and 3 months on a pink. I understand why a trainer charges more and as long azs i feel i have got value for money thats fine but i didn't with her.


www.HNDdrivingschool.co.uk

Adi teaching in and around Salisbury wiltshire

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#4 19-05-07 18:09:58

david nave
Guest

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Don't take advice from another PDI, they may be talking out of their a r s e . Get a good trainer pay and learn. Just because something seems right doesn't mean it is. You need the advice of someone who is a A QUALIFIED TRAINER, not an ADI/PDI a proper Trainer, the two are poles apart believe me. YOU are being trained to teach people to drive a PDI/ADI does not have the relevant skills to pass onto you. Up to you but many a PDI falls foul of listening to people who are not skilled in the business of proper training.


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#5 19-05-07 20:09:48

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

I have sat the Diploma in Driving instruction and spent many hours unpaid in study, I went on to do the 7407 adult education cert again many hours of study plus ORDIT plus cardington +++++ many others and all these cost me too.

Why would I charge more? because I have taken many more qualifications to expand my knowledge so I can improve the quality to what I do and improve the people I train chances of passing and going on to be great teachers.

And a valid point made that even learner driving should be priced at £32.00 hr


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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#6 19-05-07 20:13:25

david nave
Guest

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

I have sat the Diploma in Driving instruction and spent many hours unpaid in study, I went on to do the 7407 adult education cert again many hours of study plus ORDIT plus cardington +++++ many others and all these cost me too.

Why would I charge more? because I have taken many more qualifications to expand my knowledge so I can improve the quality to what I do and improve the people I train chances of passing and going on to be great teachers.

And a valid point made that even learner driving should be priced at £32.00 hr

Proving once again that quality has to be paid for.


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#7 20-05-07 11:26:03

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

As suggested it comes down to the market!  Would learners REALLY pay £32/hr? 

Where as PDI's would pay £32+ an hour if they can get quality.  Do learners know what quality instruction is?

Not so sure? 

This is why there is a difference, however as you say quality and experience should be paid for, so a price for quality learner instruction, and a price for quality PDI instruction. 

To be honest with you as far as Part 2 goes ANY instructor SHOULD be able to teach it to a quality standard (HAHA, as if) but in terms of what you SHOULD know about Part 2 for the Part 3 test, it SHOULD be taught by a QUALIFIED instructor trainer, cos it is MUCH better learning Part 2 with Part 3 angle included!


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#8 20-05-07 17:20:21

kev elliott
Guest

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Training buddies are invaluable but as has been said they are no subsitute for qualified trainers. Using PDI's to prepare for Part 2 is a good way for both of you to gain experience, however remeber that the methods you recieve from a trainer may be conflicting. It is up to you to determine what the reason for this is -either one my be correct but make sure that you understand the difference.

Part 3-Part 3 buddies are again invaluable particularly if you are both at more or less the same level as then neither will dominate the other and you should both benifit.

The key to all of this for me was to understand why some methods worked and what the strengths and weaknesses of each method was. This is the work you can do between your training sessions so you get the most from them.

For example for road postioning what are the strengths and weaknesses of these methods? - they are not in any order of preference there will be other methods add as many as you like. Try it for yourselves and see what you come up with. There is no right answer for all situations but if you get the feel for what the strengths and weaknesses of each are then you can select the one that is most approriate for the situation 

Reference point on the car to line the kerb up with
Aiming for what you want to hit  ie the gap!
Marks on the road that you can see to keep distance  correct
Looking in the door mirror to check where the kerb is
For passing parked cars looking out of the side windows so that you can see the top edge of the wheel arch.


 


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#9 20-05-07 19:16:55

Michael (in Croydon)
Verified Member
From: Croydon south London
Registered: 20-05-06
Posts: 224

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Most trainers are charging £30+
most are the best instructors in the industry
with years of experience and or additional qualifications ORDIT Dip DI etc
and are normally grade 5/6
these people have worked hard to get to be the best
you do want the best dont you?
by trying to save a few quid, you may be wasting everthing that you have spent, if you dont pass - you need to get this stuff right or loose all!
the pass rate is abysmal with as few as 7 out of 100 making it! (check your ADI14)

If you needed a plumber or a sparks you would expect pay £70Hr
so a grade 6 ORDIT trainer is not expensive

As suggested it comes down to the market!  Would learners REALLY pay £32/hr?

Iain if Instructor were all bold enough to charge £30 tomorrow we would all get it, as ADIs are the only people how can charge by law - we are just not bold enough to all work together to achieve this, they do in parts of Europe were £30 is the norm for L drivers.
We can only blame ourselves


You can tell a horse to drink a thousand times, but all you really need to do is help him realise he’s thirsty. (Coaching)"

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#10 21-05-07 15:15:59

Lily-Anne
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 21-05-07
Posts: 606
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

The use of buddies in role play can be invaluable, not for advice but to learn from their mistakes, particularly if you have different trainers.  I would not have done it like that because, starts off a good thought process.

As far as training fees go, in some cases you get what you pay for.  I charge £30 ph have a good track record, but I'm totally honest about their ability and how the training is progressing, if one of my trainees the same as my learners, books a test before I think they are ready we have a long discussion before the booking becomes written in blood.

I know of someone charging £40ph and his learners can't even pass.


http://www.centraladitraining.co.uk
BA, Dip Di, Cardington 'A', NLP Practitioner using coaching as a life skill.
http://www.aicoachingsolutions.com

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#11 22-05-07 04:32:50

butt2
Verified Member
Registered: 31-01-06
Posts: 246

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

After spending a long time making minimal progress for Part 3 I eventually went to a highly recommended trainer.

This meant a four hour round trip to get to him and then i was charged top rate.

Was he worth it.  Absolutely.  He made the difference and I achieved the Green Badge I was after.

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#12 22-05-07 05:07:08

kev elliott
Guest

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

The use of buddies in role play can be invaluable, not for advice but to learn from their mistakes, particularly if you have different trainers.  I would not have done it like that because, starts off a good thought process.

That is an very good point Lily-Anne, gets people thinking about what they doing and the differences rather than swinging from one method to another.   


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#13 22-05-07 13:31:21

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Well why?  :?

I am practicing for my part 2 instructor test and think I want extra lessons but when i called around those instructors that will do training for instructors quoted me at least £10 an hour more than they charge for learner lessons and I have to take more than 2 or 3 hours at a time.
So how comes they want to charge two different hourerly rates one for learner and one for instructor part 2 practice. It is same car and same instructor and same hours? I feel they either dont want to do instructor training or just want to try to rip me off because I am a woman.

What on earth has gender to do with it?  Unless of course he is charging less for men?
....

Just because someone can't, or doesn't want to fill his diary with the higher paid trainer work, why shouldn't he fill some of that time with lower paid learner work?

I will occasionally do some chauffering work which only pays me about £6 per hour.  Does this mean I am ripping off my learners when I charge them £23 per hour?  Personally I don't think so.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#14 22-05-07 14:59:13

Lily-Anne
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 21-05-07
Posts: 606
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

I agree with that.  I do one full day ADI training, the rest of my week is L tuition.  Training for pt2 and 3 is very intensive, often it runs over, you get thrown in free coffee and breaks and we don't run to a dead on the hour, right we stop schedule.


http://www.centraladitraining.co.uk
BA, Dip Di, Cardington 'A', NLP Practitioner using coaching as a life skill.
http://www.aicoachingsolutions.com

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#15 22-05-07 17:50:50

richardhead
Verified Member
Registered: 14-05-07
Posts: 15

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

I'm not sure the use of buddies is that useful (especially Dimmy!! - joke!). Saying that, I'm not even sure fully qualified ADI's have a clue when it comes to part 3 training. It's a totally different discipline to teaching learners, and requires a far higher degree of skill to carry out properly. I would suggest most ADI's can pass on part 2 training, granted, but part 3 - well, that's different. There's way too much left to chance with this industry - and the worst sector I've ever known for people getting ripped off. Maybe when the pink licence is scrapped, and the CPD is more rigorous, will we have higher training standards for both learners and PDI's. It's long, long overdue.

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#16 23-05-07 06:34:16

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Again maybe is not good enough!

When will the DSA get some BALLS and give it a shake up.  I think they have gone for the easy option and upped the quality on tests so there is no option but to have a good trainer for learners AND ADIs alike.

What other industry lets this happen?


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#17 03-06-07 23:58:29

scdit
Verified Member
Registered: 29-05-07
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Most trainers are charging £30+
most are the best instructors in the industry
with years of experience and or additional qualifications ORDIT Dip DI etc
and are normally grade 5/6
these people have worked hard to get to be the best
you do want the best dont you?
by trying to save a few quid, you may be wasting everthing that you have spent, if you dont pass - you need to get this stuff right or loose all!
the pass rate is abysmal with as few as 7 out of 100 making it! (check your ADI14)

If you needed a plumber or a sparks you would expect pay £70Hr
so a grade 6 ORDIT trainer is not expensive

As suggested it comes down to the market!  Would learners REALLY pay £32/hr?

Iain if Instructor were all bold enough to charge £30 tomorrow we would all get it, as ADIs are the only people how can charge by law - we are just not bold enough to all work together to achieve this, they do in parts of Europe were £30 is the norm for L drivers.
We can only blame ourselves

Ditto......apart from.....
No such thing as a grade 6 ORDIT Trainer. ORDIT trainers are not graded under the realms of ORDIT. The grade relates to ther DSA ADI Check Test Grade. When you are assessed for ORDIT you either pass or fail, thats it, no grading. ORDIT Trainers must comply with ASA guidelines too!

Just to clarify, if you want monkey's, pay peanuts.


High Quality ORDIT Assured ADI Training

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#18 04-06-07 06:14:56

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

7 out of 100 actually making it. Wouldnt that be a 7% pass rate for part 3. When its more like 27%


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#19 04-06-07 06:22:50

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Quite right, ORDIT trainers are not GRADED!

THEY SHOULD BE, but they are graded as ADI's, and probably on Fleet Check Tests, and a good Trainer it should also show in the results?



Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#20 04-06-07 07:06:27

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Captain - the 27% pass rate for part 3 is that 27% of all part 3 tests are passes.

The 7% rate comes about when you add in all the people who start the process. Only around 7% of people who take an attempt at part 1 actually pass part 3.

(I think this is right, I'm sure someone will correct me!).

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#21 04-06-07 08:27:15

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
Website

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Your figure of 7% sounds about right Tim and it is calculated as you say. Many people who join the register fall away whether it be for personal reasons or failing an exam and are not included on the part 2 + 3 pass rates as they didn't sit them.

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#22 04-06-07 21:16:13

Michael (in Croydon)
Verified Member
From: Croydon south London
Registered: 20-05-06
Posts: 224

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Although it is true that to be accepted on the ordit register you will either pass of fail, you will find that you are graded by the SE conducting the test!
I have a grade 6 from my ordit test! At the time I asked the SE can I tell people that I got a grade 6 in my ORDIT test? and he said yes of course you can.
If you want to know your grade just ask the SE who conducted your last ORDIT test.

The 7% rate comes about when you add in all the people who start the process. Only around 7% of people who take an attempt at part 1 actually pass part 3.

Thats right.
Regards Michael


You can tell a horse to drink a thousand times, but all you really need to do is help him realise he’s thirsty. (Coaching)"

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#23 02-10-07 19:51:09

EMMAJANE
Verified Member
From: kent
Registered: 18-03-07
Posts: 269

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

when i done a few adi lesson with instructor i was paying £30.00 for 1 hour , as i was going to do it  on my own now im going with a school  im paying the full amount for training

em xx


x emma x
part 1 ..  passed ..dec 07
part 2 ... passed 31st march ....2 faults 
part 3 ...  on the pink [june]

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#24 03-10-07 08:08:56

Target
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From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
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Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

I wonder where we would be if the pass rate was any better.

Sure I know the trainings a shambles, hell Im an Adi so I know how much of a struggle it was to get where I am now, but at 27% or 7% if lets say the pass rate was nearer 50% how many more Adi/Pdi would we have in the system cutting back on all our work.

Interesting this split in the figures. Do they do that with the L-Test. Afterall you get alot of pupils who start but never finish. Some take a test and never come back to driving for whatever reason. Money.Instructor.Other Drivers. Examiners.

I come across this dilema with my own figures sometimes. Do I include the pupils who take a test and fail, then move areas. Do i include the ones who take tests fail then stop lessons.


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#25 27-10-07 22:37:58

Born Saintly
Verified Member
From: South
Registered: 11-04-05
Posts: 48

Re: Why are trainers more expensive?

Target why is it a dilemma with figures? If you have 100 tests and 50 pass, your pass rate is 50%.
If someone asks me for pass rates I count up the last calendar year and work out the percentage against those that pass and those that fail.
You can’t just conveniently ignore a fail if someone moves on.

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