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#1 08-05-07 10:41:52

posh
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-06
Posts: 855

mirrors on part two

just a question for trainers on part two, when doing the manouvres is it the norm to teach the trainee not to use the mirrors ,when reversing and lining up, but use refrence points, only quickly glancing in mirrors to judge your turning point or that you are parrallel to the kerb. just interested to see how other trainers  teach it. neutral

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08-05-07 10:41:52

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Re: mirrors on part two



#2 08-05-07 10:58:57

ams
Verified Member
From: West Pinchbeck, Spalding, Linc
Registered: 03-01-07
Posts: 199

Re: mirrors on part two

You should not reverse solely using or relying on the view obtained by looking in your mirrors but should make use of the information that you can gain from checking them every so often as part of your all-round general observations. Remember that main observations should be in direction of travel.

Personally I would use reference points to judge turning points etc., rather than relying on the 'distorted' image from your door mirror but would use to help gauge distance away from the kerb, ie is there a gap between your car and the kerb.


Qualified Oct 2001 - 1st Attempt 5/4.
Cardington Grade A.
Institute of Advanced Motorists.
NVQ A1 Assessors Award.
ORDIT registered parts 1, 2 & 3.
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#3 08-05-07 11:36:19

timmanwaringadi
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From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
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Re: mirrors on part two

You can use everything you have available to you to ensure that the manoeuvre is performed in controlled manner, accurately and with effective observations.

So yes - feel free to use the mirrors. Reference points are very useful, but get the customer to make up their own (on L and part 2) from what they can see (giving suggestions if they're unsure what they should use).

Ams is spot on with everything really.

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#4 08-05-07 11:58:59

posh
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Registered: 21-01-06
Posts: 855

Re: mirrors on part two

thanks guys, its just that my trainer was always adament that i did not look in my wing mirror when doing theese manouvres,although it was an natuaral instinct to me .would you get marked down on  part two test for it?

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#5 08-05-07 12:03:21

timmanwaringadi
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From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
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Re: mirrors on part two

It's a tool to be used posh, so don't worry, the only way you could be marked down for it is if by looking in your mirror you then neglect your other observations. A nice phrase I heard from another instructor was Glance don't Trance!

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#6 08-05-07 12:41:38

captainhook
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Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
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Re: mirrors on part two

Too much emphasis is put on DONT USE MIRRORS.

The simple fact is adequate observations should be taken. Looking out the rear almost all of the time with regular all round obs using mirrors and ahed and blindspot.


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#7 08-05-07 12:48:31

ams
Verified Member
From: West Pinchbeck, Spalding, Linc
Registered: 03-01-07
Posts: 199

Re: mirrors on part two

thanks guys, its just that my trainer was always adament that i did not look in my wing mirror when doing theese manouvres,although it was an natuaral instinct to me .would you get marked down on  part two test for it?

Perhaps a little pedantic but unless you drive an old car, very few have wing mirrors nowdays!!Terminology is particularly important when you get to Part 3, so getting in to the correct habits and phrases now will help later.


Qualified Oct 2001 - 1st Attempt 5/4.
Cardington Grade A.
Institute of Advanced Motorists.
NVQ A1 Assessors Award.
ORDIT registered parts 1, 2 & 3.
Grade 6 - April 07

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#8 08-05-07 15:08:15

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
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Re: mirrors on part two

So where can we find a definate answer to this?

DT1 tells us that the candidate must be looking "MAINLY" to the rear so this would allow for occasional checks to the mirrors and for all round obs.

I think as long as your Trainee is not staring or as I call it hypnotised by the mirrors then you will be OK


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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#9 08-05-07 15:09:33

timmanwaringadi
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From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
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Re: mirrors on part two

Door mirrors. Absolutely. I would never ever ever refer to them as wing mirrors.   roll

Good phraseology is very important though - I think I'll have to start changing what I call them!

Marconi - was it you who came up with the phrase Glance don't Trance then? If it was - thankyou.

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#10 08-05-07 18:12:38

comedrivewithme
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From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
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Re: mirrors on part two

So what if they are too overweight to be able to turn enough to look out through the rear window? Or too short, or just can't see anything?  Or they've passed their test and have a couple of tall adults sat in the back?  Or when they are straining to see over their shoulder, they get a crick in their neck or slip a disk in their back? 

In any other industry, the health and safety people would insist that you were not aloud to twist that far, in order to carry out a task.  If a pupil does struggle to look that far around, then gets injured as a result of this action.  Who will they claim against?

I think that the view through the rear window is given far too much credit.   The truth is that you don't see more than using mirrors and using good all round observations.

rattle, rattle, rattle.


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#11 08-05-07 23:37:57

posh
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-06
Posts: 855

Re: mirrors on part two

posh wrote:

thanks guys, its just that my trainer was always adament that i did not look in my wing mirror when doing theese manouvres,although it was an natuaral instinct to me .would you get marked down on  part two test for it?

Perhaps a little pedantic but unless you drive an old car, very few have wing mirrors nowdays!!Terminology is particularly important when you get to Part 3, so getting in to the correct habits and phrases now will help later.

so when did they start putting the wing mirrors on the doors then :? lol lol only kidding .you are absolutley right. i normally use the interior and left mirror  or middle and right  terminology. i hope thats right.

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#12 09-05-07 06:58:05

timmanwaringadi
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From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
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Re: mirrors on part two

Come drive - I know what you mean, and depending on the circumstances (as you mentioned) you can still pass an L or part 2 test without looking out of the rear window.

However, if you can see out the back - look out the back - you are seeing things directly meaning your brain has less processing to do before a reaction, and you have much better peripheral vision and you will notice problems earlier.

Posh - I'm hoping ams was being a little tongue in cheek - as long as your customer understands what you are talking about you'll be fine, I use those same phrases.

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#13 09-05-07 14:16:27

ams
Verified Member
From: West Pinchbeck, Spalding, Linc
Registered: 03-01-07
Posts: 199

Re: mirrors on part two

Posh - I'm hoping ams was being a little tongue in cheek - as long as your customer understands what you are talking about you'll be fine, I use those same phrases.

I want to ensure that the customer understands what I am talking about, thats why I raised the point. Communication is vital for us to be able to stay safe, and whilst as a trainer I am regularly 'critisised' for being insistant on certain phrases or terminology, being in the correct lane rather than the right(hand) lane might make all the difference between me being alive to do the job tomorrow.


Qualified Oct 2001 - 1st Attempt 5/4.
Cardington Grade A.
Institute of Advanced Motorists.
NVQ A1 Assessors Award.
ORDIT registered parts 1, 2 & 3.
Grade 6 - April 07

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#14 09-05-07 17:59:51

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: mirrors on part two

You've a very valid point ams and I hope I didn't offend you.

I've had trainees try to tell me "ok, right, we'll turn left next at the end of the road", and then wondered why I've started weaving and indicating all over the place.

Terminology is very important to an instructor's safety, and a customer's understanding. I have recently had a learner come to me from another instructor who used to confuse her with his guidance, then shout at her for being confused. In my own training course I have a specific unit on this.

Apologies again, I certainly didn't mean to say that phrasing things correctly wasn't important.

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#15 09-05-07 21:43:45

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: mirrors on part two

Come drive - I know what you mean, and depending on the circumstances (as you mentioned) you can still pass an L or part 2 test without looking out of the rear window.

However, if you can see out the back - look out the back - you are seeing things directly meaning your brain has less processing to do before a reaction, and you have much better peripheral vision and you will notice problems earlier.

Posh - I'm hoping ams was being a little tongue in cheek - as long as your customer understands what you are talking about you'll be fine, I use those same phrases.

When looking out through the rear window, your view to your right is very poor and dificult without turning around.  Using mirrors and blind spots, you can see eveything.


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#16 10-05-07 07:22:51

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: mirrors on part two

You've certainly got a valid point comedrive, I can't argue with that.

Do you teach learners without mobility problems to do this on test? How does this go down if you do?

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#17 10-05-07 20:43:10

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: mirrors on part two

Not allowed to am I?  This is the big problem.  It's been a bone of contention for me, ever since I started training for part two.

When worked as a hgv driver, for 16 years I drove lorries which had windows at the back of the cab.  This made it easy to look down along the near side of the trailer whilst reversing on the bilnd side.  For the task in hand it was great, but it does take it's toll on your back and neck because you have to twist around so far.

Over the last couple of years I've used lorries without the back window.  It's a bit more difficult to do the reverse as view is restricted.  However I never finish the manouvre without an aching back and neck.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you sit in your own car, and look through the rear window.  Can you honestly say you have a better view than if you look in all three mirrors and into your blind spots?  Particularly if you are short.(which I am not) You have a higher vantage point and can see things lower and closer to the rear of your car.

A child for instance, may be too short for you to see through the rear window, but you'll see the top half of his head in your mirror. 


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#18 10-05-07 22:26:15

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: mirrors on part two

It does seem slightly odd that an ADI trainer should say that you aren't allowed to use the mirrors.

Might be worth questioning them further on this.

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