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#1 19-01-05 16:33:38

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Failed IAM test today

<STEAM VENT OPEN>
I have been working toward the IAM test and today took it and failed.

The examiner said I am failing to seperate inputs to the car: steering, gears & braking.

So far I am unimpressed by IAM.

My first observer was very unsure of herself & did not give directions in time (err.. left her I think, umm... no right..). My second was telling me not to signal at places I know I should. My third was the best one but he put 'good' under B&G seperation  :shock: .

The examiner was a really nice guy and we had a long chat. He said he had failed 6 out of the last 7 candidates and seperation was a constant theme.

I can accept what he said and he described what I should be doing very well but I am annoyed that my observers were more interested in getting me not to signal and telling me not to prepare to move until amber when sitting at lights than picking up on what seems to be fundamental problem.

<STEAM VENT CLOSED>

Now I am going to have a sulk and decide whether to have another go  :cry:


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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19-01-05 16:33:38

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Re: Failed IAM test today



#2 19-01-05 21:41:20

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Failed IAM test today

Mr Bass Man

What can I say :shock:  firstly I am disgusted at the Observers for not giving clear and precise directions ect ect.
Normally if an Associate fails with our group(which is not very often) it is for speed (moving traffic offence)

I am speechless for once :shock:

If I was you I would have a word with the Chairman/woman of your local group and tell them exactly what has gone on,see what he/she has to say.
No excuse at all because even if the Observer was a newly qualified one she should know that early instruction/direction is required.
Observers should be taken out by a Senior Observer and checked again at least every 12 months to make sure they are up to scratch and doing there job correctly, We are.

Please let me know how you get on.
I would take the test again,I know it's £35 but I think it's worth it.

Gizmotime

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#3 19-01-05 22:17:12

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

Gizmotime wrote:

Mr Bass Man
Normally if an Associate fails with our group(which is not very often) it is for speed (moving traffic offence)

Something is not right here because 6/7 failed locally mainly for seperation yet you have most passing. Is the examiner too harsh or the local group not training people correctly? The examiner did say he is new to the role.


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Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#4 19-01-05 22:44:09

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Failed IAM test today

Hiya Mr BassMan

I can't comment on weather your local group is training associates properly or not,it wouldn't be fare of me to do that as I don't know them at all. I do have my own views on this but as I say it wouldn't be fare for me to comment :oops:  This is not a cop out at all I hope you understand :oops:

If you wish to take a look at our groups newsletter I have included a link to that you will see there that the figures are listed.

Gizmotime

http://www.boltoniam.org.uk/5.html

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#5 20-01-05 06:45:35

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Failed IAM test today

Mr Bassman

Your group should be holding Observers meetings every so often and they should be picking up on any problems on test results.  Would be worth asking if this reason for failure has only been arising since this examiner came onto the scene.

Are we talking Brake /Gear overlap here?  There are times when it is acceptable and I didn't think IAM were failing candidates for overlapping.  I know it comes into the RoSPA test, but mainly to differentiate between the gradings rather than pass/fail.

Definately have another go.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#6 20-01-05 13:08:01

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Failed IAM test today

MrBassman-Sorry to hear that you have failed do not blame the examiner if he has gave you a full debrief,on what you have failed on and you are happy with what he say,s. If he has failed the last 6/7 for what you say is brake gear overlap,then i am sure he will be letting the group know that they need to be concentrating on this point.
As someone else has said there is provision for this in Roadcraft however some of the observers within groups do not have the relevant experience to know themselves when to introduce the difference in this procedure.
I know myself that when a new examiner is introducedto a group if they are currently a serving police officer then they will usually have a particularly high standard,and hope that the candidates have as well in all areas,some groups have very rarely seen test fails for a long time and this is sometimes due to the examiner being retired for quite a number of years so the standard has slipped (no disrespect to anyone). If what you say in respect to the observers being true then i suggest that you need to bring this up with the individual group training committee for this matter to be brought to there attention,you by now will have a good idea who the good observers are and the one's who just go out for a drive in a nice car on a sunday morning,a bit harsh but true,i have had first hand experience over the last 15yrs that i have been with various IAM groups so don't despair try and sort it out and have another go and all the best,why not try ROSPA and see the difference.
       Stephen

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#7 20-01-05 18:51:42

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

It thought it was accelerate/brake/steering overlap he was concerned about more than brake/gear. He went into car balance when cornering.

I do avoid braking/accelerating on a bend but I don't think he beleived I did it well enough because he talked about braking earlier.

It seemed so clear after the test but I am a little confused about it now, especially after trying to put it into practice today. I always get the braking finished and gear change done before the bend but I do seem to overlap the gear change with the last second of braking - but this is not what he said - he said acceleration/steering  :? Maybe I misunderstood  :oops:

Maybe it's just me  :cry:


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#8 20-01-05 21:42:14

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Failed IAM test today

Mr BassMan

I can understand how you feel,and unfortunatly the examiner doesn't normally speak to the group about each individual test that he/she conducts.
I would have a word with the Senior Observer or better still the Chairperson of your group's committe, explain it to him/her and see if they will have a word with the examiner they may be able to find out exactly what the examiner meant.
You see the test results are passed to IAM headquarters so the group once they have put you in for test don't have any Idea until you tell them that you are in for test.
Same as when an associate passes unless they let the group know then the group are not told by the examiner.

God I hope you understand that :oops:

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#9 21-01-05 00:09:07

jgarbutt
Verified Member
From: Driving Instructor in Horsham,
Registered: 26-04-04
Posts: 380
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

Hi Mr Bassman,

I've got my 2nd assesment drive with IAM on Mon. I asked the question about brake/gear overlap on my first drive, but observer didnt seem sure what I was on about.

Otherwise it went quite well, was told to signal less, I was a little cautious on the country routes and was picked up for insufficient progress. I also missed one warning sign  :oops: (actually, I think I sorted of filtered out of my mind as I knew that particular road well). Finally, was picked up on steering as my observer didnt like my hands straying even 1 second pass 12 o'clock! But overall it went well, and I should be doing my test soon I hope, so will be able to give some more feedback then.


Jason Garbutt
DSA Approved Driving Instructor
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[color=blue]      Driving lessons throughout Sussex
Tel. 01403 251662 - www.GreatDriver.co.uk

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#10 21-01-05 00:37:37

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Failed IAM test today

jgarbutt wrote:

Finally, was picked up on steering as my observer didnt like my hands straying even 1 second pass 12 o'clock! But overall it went well, and I should be doing my test soon I hope, so will be able to give some more feedback then.

I take it you mean with the Pull Push steering :?:  best of luck with your fourthcoming test wink

need any help i'm here.

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#11 21-01-05 00:40:36

jgarbutt
Verified Member
From: Driving Instructor in Horsham,
Registered: 26-04-04
Posts: 380
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

Yes, with pull-push - watching myself like a hawk now!

I have my next assesment drive on Mon, so hopefully will be ok by then. Thanks for the help offer Giz, I'll shout if I need to!


Jason Garbutt
DSA Approved Driving Instructor
GDlogom.gif
[color=blue]      Driving lessons throughout Sussex
Tel. 01403 251662 - www.GreatDriver.co.uk

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#12 21-01-05 08:03:39

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Failed IAM test today

jgarbutt wrote:

Yes, with pull-push - watching myself like a hawk now!

No no no your supposed to watch the Road lol (sorry) wink
Good luck with the assessment,like I said the main and most common reason for anyone failing the assessment ( or test) is speed, you shouldn't have any problems.
And your welcome that's what I'm here for to help wink

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#13 21-01-05 14:15:04

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Failed IAM test today

Can i ask all the ones who are in training to take the IAM test ,what book you are being asked to study from is it PYADT or Roadcraft this could be a clue as to why so many observers dont know what you are asking,i am interested to know. Thanks
                     Stephen

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#14 21-01-05 16:22:44

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

PYADT - The red cover version


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#15 21-01-05 17:37:56

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Failed IAM test today

Stephen to answer your question,associates should only be reading How to become an advanced driver (PYADT) and the highway code, they should NOT be reading roadcraft,unless they have passed the Advanced driving test.

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#16 21-01-05 19:45:16

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Failed IAM test today

Gizmotime- not all groups have the IAM PYADT some are still on |Roadcraft not many,i am of the opinion that there is only one back and guess what that is,if you read Roadcraft when training as an associate then if you trin for an observer then the Roadcraft book wont be as hard to understand as it is proving for a lot of new observers,hence the lack of knowledge into the varying chapters.
                             Stephen

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#17 21-01-05 21:10:42

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Failed IAM test today

Stephen7738 wrote:

Gizmotime- not all groups have the IAM PYADT some are still on |Roadcraft not many,i am of the opinion that there is only one back and guess what that is,if you read Roadcraft when training as an associate then if you trin for an observer then the Roadcraft book wont be as hard to understand as it is proving for a lot of new observers,hence the lack of knowledge into the varying chapters.
                             Stephen

Stephen all groups SHOULD have the PYADT as is set out on the IAM website,the associates are NOT given the roadcraft book when they start,I will stand my ground on this one Stephen, When an asociate signs up to do the course they are provided with the How to become an advanced driver book and the highway code,NO other book is issued to them,please take a look at www.IAM.org.uk.

I'm not saying Don't get a copy and read it for yourself,I'm just stating facts NO argument just facts wink

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#18 22-01-05 19:01:15

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Failed IAM test today

I know they get issued with it as per IAM hq guidelines ,but what they do there training off is another issue,like i said some get a copy of Roadcraft and do there basic training on that ,you cant half tell a difference between the two observers,when they are in training for senior.what book did you learn off as an associate,then learn off to become a qualified observer.
                 Stephen

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#19 22-01-05 19:10:17

crr003
Guest

Re: Failed IAM test today

Gizmotime wrote:

........associates should only be reading How to become an advanced driver (PYADT) and the highway code, they should NOT be reading roadcraft,unless they have passed the Advanced driving test.

Out of interest, why do you say this?

I lend out my copy of "RC-the video" to associates, as I think the pictures help a new associate understand a bit easier.  I don't think it goes against PYADT.

Roger


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#20 23-01-05 00:44:30

Approved Instructor
Verified Member
From: Blackburn, Preston, Lancashire
Registered: 16-03-04
Posts: 884
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

Best all round idea is to get a trained professional for training, like learner drivers do.


?

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#21 23-01-05 07:38:35

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Failed IAM test today

and the difference between a trained professional and an trained amateur is?  The profesional is paid and the amateur is not.  So why do you suggest the professional is better?  In many cases amateurs can be much more passionate because they truly believe in what they are passing on and don't rely on giving training for a living.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#22 23-01-05 09:35:06

Midge
Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 414
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

I know of someone who was paying for advanced tuition with BSM, and then discovered that the instructor hadn't passed an advanced test,  so in that case an amateur would probably be better than a "professional"


Midge  -   Dip D.I.

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#23 23-01-05 10:55:03

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

adiNigel wrote:

and the difference between a trained professional and an trained amateur is?

In one word - experience.

A professional generally receives more training, has higher standard qualifying exams and is doing the job on a daily basis.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#24 23-01-05 11:06:44

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed IAM test today

Midge wrote:

I know of someone who was paying for advanced tuition with BSM, and then discovered that the instructor hadn't passed an advanced test,  so in that case an amateur would probably be better than a "professional"

With my recent personal experiences with IAM observers - I have to strongly argue against that. My observers gave contradictory advice, and in some cases simply incorrect advice. I failed the test but I am still confused as to the reasons why  :oops: - I am not saying I learned nothing from the experience, but what I did learn was mostly from the books wink

If you want to drive around as fast as it is safely possible to do - join the IAM, they are good at that and seem to be proud of it; this is from both observers comments and the examiners comments (a serving class 1 police pursuit driver)

If you want to be a good all round driver in all traffic situations, then go to an ADI.

This is just based on my experiences with my local IAM group, other groups may be better, I cannot say.

Final comment - The BSM instructor HAS passed an advanced driving test. What do you think Part 2 is? - Check ADI14 if you do not beleive me.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#25 24-01-05 07:03:39

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Failed IAM test today

MrBassMan wrote:
adiNigel wrote:

and the difference between a trained professional and an trained amateur is?

In one word - experience.

A professional generally receives more training, has higher standard qualifying exams and is doing the job on a daily basis.

Possibly, but not necessarily.  I have been an ADI for about 18 months, there are some observers who have been observing for years!

Some groups are more active on the training front than others.  The IAM have now brought in qualifications for their observers, so this may produce more consistancy and, some groups will have more observer meetings than others.  Keep at it Mr Bassman, pass the test and then become an observer.   Change the standard from within.  The Reading branch of RoADA train their observers up to RoADA Diploma standard.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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