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#1 14-01-05 14:21:21

sweezely
Guest

Failed twice, for pure lies.

Maybe I've had bad luck with tests, or maybe the DSA are money-grabbing b*stards, but on Tuesday I failed my thrird test, and for the second time in a row it was something that just wasn't true.

The first test I took I was quite nervous and did not deserve to pass.  Even then, the test was not conducted particularly fairly.  The examiner took it upon himself to take physical action (put his foot on the brake).  When he released the brake, he gave me a major fault for NOT HAVING THE HANDBRAKE ON.  He marked down a serious, AND a dangerous fault for it.  As far as I know, once one has been put down, the examiner should stop marking that category.  And he repeatedly got my name wrong, after asking how I wanted to be called.  But, I did deserve to fail.

The second test, however, I was given several major faults, all for the same thing, not doing any shoulder checks.  Not doing ANY.  This was just not true.  I did all my shoulder checks.  It wasn't as if there was nothing else he could have failed me on.  The first thing I did after starting the engine was stalling the car.  He didn't even give me a minor fault for that!  No, instead, every couple of minutes he would ask me to pull up, and start off again, for no reason.  It didn't matter what the road was, or traffic conditions, but every few minutes he would say "just pull up here."  And then ask me to move off.  During this inordinate number of times I was asked to park, I did not a single shoulder check, apparantly.

But this third test tipped me over the edge.  In between my second and third tests I bought a car.  I drive this car to work every day, and drive back.  It's a 90 minute round trip involving many awkward junctions and all types of roads, in rush hour.  On weekends I practiced my manouvers.  The night before my test I went out with my instructor who said there was absolutely nothing he could fail me on.  The bottom line is, I CAN DRIVE.

My third test went fine.  Once, down to nerves, I clipped the kerb pulling up.  I didn't even receive a minor fault for this.  That was it.

I still failed.  Reason?  I didn't stop at a Stop sign.  Once again, a complete lie.  I argued with the examiner, but his reply was "well, that's your opinion."  I also received a major for observation during my reverse park - "your observation was fine to start with, but during the second part of the manouver you took no visible action to an oncoming vehicle."  Now this is contentious.  He failed me for not seeing the car.  I did see it.  The action I took was to pull my car closer to the kerb, thus getting out of the car's way.  That is what a reverse park is.  I couldn't have taken a more appropriate action.

I could quite easily fail the examiner on HIS performance - failiure to count the number of exits at a roundabout, even after I had corrected him, failiure to observe that at one point I was travelling at 32mph, and deliberate distraction of the driver (my observation isn't worthy to be on the road, but apparantly he felt comfortable enough to have a conversation with me the whole test).

When I drove back home, I was seething.  I rang DSA customer services (learner drivers aren't students, we're customers) and asked to make a complaint.  I got given the number of the manager of the Wednesbury test centre... who wasn't in.  After leaving 3 messages I eventually got a reply saying that the manager would be back in the office on Monday.  And so I wait.


I know it is futile to complain.  I know there's no hope in hell getting anything from the DSA.  I know there is no appeals procedure for verdicts, only for the conduction of the test.  But this is costing me far too much money.  The test fees, the time off work, my increased cost of insurance, my father's loss of earnings (when I drive to work, he has to be in the car with me, then drive it back home), and the extra petrol it costs for my dad to ferry the car back and forth to my place of work so I can drive back.  This amounts to hundreds of pounds, and I simply cannot afford it anymore.  If I fail because I do something wrong then fine.  I'm not a perfect driver.  But  to be failed for things that are not only wrong but also never happened, well, that really is just not on.

The DSA is a monopoly, and should be boycotted.  They charge too much, and do not deliver.  The standards of driving are appalling.  Pass rates are falling, yet accident rates are rising.  Everything the DSA does only happens to increase the profits.  And I'm going to do everything I can to not be walked all over by the b*stards.

14-01-05 14:21:21

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Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.




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#2 14-01-05 22:13:33

arib
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 258
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Harsh words Sweezely.
Like most pupils who fail you are annoyed and upset. But most, on reflection of events, come to accept it and knuckle down and try to work harder for the next attempt. You appear to have gone the other way by your aggresion. You don't say if it was the same examiner.
Lets look at your second test. You can't get several majors in one subject. You will probably have accrued minors on Moving away Safely. When these total up to five this then becomes serious. IE a fail. It probably all started with your stall. In your haste to put things right and get away you might have forgotten to check the blind spot. So he thinks, is that just a lapse or a weakness. It is now he will try and find out. Hence the number of times he pulled you in.
Now the third test. Stop means just that. No roll of the wheels. You must come to a complete stop and take more effective observation as there will be some danger involved at the junction. As for the reverse park. He can only mark you on control or observation. So you saw the car, but did you react. Obviously not. You say you just kept reversing. What if the car had pulled around the back of you to park on a drive or beside the kerb. Thats what your skill should have showed him. As you didn't show him you intended to do anything about the car then thats why you probably got a fail. Your observed, but didn't re-act safely, so you could have taken more appropriate action. Perhaps next time you should take your instructor with you if you think the test might be unfair. The examiner is the last person between you being a learner and a driver and it's because of your so called "appauling standards" that he's got to get it right. Hence the low pass rates.
As for the cost. It's the same for everybody. You don't have a right to a license I'm afraid. You've got to earn it.

arib

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#3 14-01-05 22:18:31

ashley
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

i absolutely agree with everything you said.i had my 3rd test yesterday and failed.i got 12 minors but she gave me a serious for signalling too early and one for undue hesitation at junctions.at the end of the test she asked if i wanted my instructor to listen in i said  yes then she decided she didnt have time. i dont care what anyone says they have to fail so many and i think its just to pay their wages!


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#4 14-01-05 23:42:44

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

arib wrote:

Harsh words Sweezely.

Damn right.

Like most pupils who fail you are annoyed and upset. But most, on reflection of events, come to accept it and knuckle down and try to work harder for the next attempt.

I have done.  Every time I have gotten more practice and become a better driver.  I now drive anywhere as a matter of course.  I can't work much harder.

You appear to have gone the other way by your aggresion. You don't say if it was the same examiner.

It wasn't.

Lets look at your second test. You can't get several majors in one subject. You will probably have accrued minors on Moving away Safely. When these total up to five this then becomes serious. IE a fail.

You can get several majors for observation, as I got.  The examiner explained that I had never done any shoulder checks, when moving away, or when doing manouvers.  This was just not true.

It probably all started with your stall. In your haste to put things right and get away you might have forgotten to check the blind spot. So he thinks, is that just a lapse or a weakness. It is now he will try and find out. Hence the number of times he pulled you in.

In the time I was waiting in the test centre, someone had come and parked right in front of the car.  When trying to reverse, I stalled.  There was no haste to get away.

Now the third test. Stop means just that. No roll of the wheels. You must come to a complete stop and take more effective observation as there will be some danger involved at the junction.

I know what "Stop" means.  I stopped.  That meant the car wasn't moving.  The examiner was just lying.

As for the reverse park. He can only mark you on control or observation. So you saw the car, but did you react. Obviously not. You say you just kept reversing. What if the car had pulled around the back of you to park on a drive or beside the kerb.

Considering the car didn't actually come anywhere near us, I'd say that was unlikely.  Also, considering that there was nowhere for him to pull into behind us, I'd say that was unlikely.

Thats what your skill should have showed him. As you didn't show him you intended to do anything about the car then thats why you probably got a fail. Your observed, but didn't re-act safely, so you could have taken more appropriate action.

It's a reverse park.  There are only two actions: 1)stopping the manouver or 2) continuing with the manouver.  Had I stopped, I daresay I'd have been failed for causing an obstruction to other road users.  I continued parking, thus moving out of the way of the other road user.  Had the examiner had even the slightesty inkling that my actions were dangerous, he would have given me a verbal warning.  The fact that he did nothing says that there was nothing at all dangerous with my actions.

Perhaps next time you should take your instructor with you if you think the test might be unfair. The examiner is the last person between you being a learner and a driver and it's because of your so called "appauling standards" that he's got to get it right. Hence the low pass rates.

So because everyone else is bad, I'm penalised? Because everyone else is bad, they are kept on the road and it is us learners who are forced to line their pockets?  Yeah, that's fair.

As for the cost. It's the same for everybody.

Maybe.  Then again, maybe everybody can't afford to take time off work to play their games.  Maybe they can't afford ridiculous insurance premiums.  Maybe they can't afford to buy twice as much petrol as they need.  Even if the cost is the same for everybody, having to contribute to the Director of the DSA's mysterious lump sum he received last year is not we take driving tests.

You don't have a right to a license I'm afraid. You've got to earn it.

I know.  I can drive.  I've had hundreds of pounds worth of lessons.  Hundreds of hours of driving practice.  I've taken three driving tests.  I drove well enough to earn a license in two of them.  I drove to the highway code.  I drove to their outdated, and quite frankly dangerous method of driving.  If I play by their rules, it's only fair that they do too.


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#5 14-01-05 23:52:11

jgarbutt
Verified Member
From: Driving Instructor in Horsham,
Registered: 26-04-04
Posts: 380
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Hi Sweezely

You sure sound aggrieved, but the problem is going to be your word against the examiners, but you might get a free retest if you complain.

What I would recommend you do for your next test is to get your instructor to sit in on the test with you then he can comment on the fairness of the examiners decision, and give you some constructive feedback.


Jason Garbutt
DSA Approved Driving Instructor
GDlogom.gif
[color=blue]      Driving lessons throughout Sussex
Tel. 01403 251662 - www.GreatDriver.co.uk

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#6 15-01-05 10:33:04

Midge
Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 414
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Sweezely
I drove to their outdated, and quite frankly dangerous method of driving.

  What exactly do you consider dangerous.I don't agree with a lot of what the DSA does, but their system of driving is neither outdated nor dangerous.  If you drive dangerously or aggressively, you will continue to fail.   On the reverse park I always teach my pupils that if anyone comes up behind them they must wait until the other car has stopped or passed them.  If the other car stops too close for them to continue safely then drive on and find somewhere else to park.   No point in getting het up about it.   I'm always amazed at the things other drivers will do to get past a learner, so wait.
I must agree with the others, get your instructor to sit in with you on the next test


Midge  -   Dip D.I.

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#7 15-01-05 12:11:23

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Driving to the Highway Code is all well and good in theory but in practice it's only us learners that do.  Few other people ever bother indicating, or using the correct lane, or driving at an appropriate speed.  To think that they will is both naive and dangerous.

As for having my instructor sit in, I suppose that is the only way to truly confirm that these people are money grabbing sons on satan.  Even he knows what they're doing is totally unfair.  He's now taking people for tests 4 or 5 times before they even have a hope of passing.  People who he's said can actually drive better than him.  And he was a police driver!

It takes a lot to get me wound up, but I've been subjected to their ***** for 18 months now.  The hazard perception was a joke.  One person at the test centre gave me the wrong instructions ("this test is designed to show your ability to spot developing hazards") and the other just said "sit down and get on with it" to me, and then promptly went and gave polite, helpful instruction to an "ethnic minority" person.  I went to a different test centre after that.

Now not once, but twice I've been failed for things that just aren't true.  It's not like there was nothing else I could have been failed on. The fact that the mistakes I know I made have not been recorded, yet mistakes I definately did not make have been used against me, well, I'm assuming there's a mark next to my name saying how many tests I have to take before they'll let me pass.  And I'm not the only one either.

If I can do something, anything, just to vent my anger on them and not you unfortunate people here then maybe I can let this go.  I know, they won't give me anything.  I won't get a refund, I won't get compensation, and I certainly WON'T get the decision overturned.  But I'm still going to try.  I know enough about their various rules, and enough about the legal system to give this a serious go.

Also, I know how to make nuclear weapons.


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#8 15-01-05 14:08:24

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Without the malice, I'm afraid I must agree with Sweezely. Although I don't have the pleasure of trying to pass my test with the DSA, I still have the unpleasant task of trying to pass a test with a centre that, financially, needs me to fail at least once. That's right, they need to. Take a look at their financial statements and you'll see what I mean.

My test centre is a ridiculous government bureaucracy. This is my experience of them:

1) Go to buy the provisional license. Stuck in a queue that goes out of the door, because although there are four people on the desks, only one is ever responsible for what everyone has gone in there for. Three people do what typical junior civil servants do. Sit around doing nothing.

2) I signed up with a driving instructor. Although you might not think there is a link here between him and the test centre, think again. He's mates with all the examiners, so when you pay him £22 (which I never have) to go and sit in the office while you take your test, you're more likely to pass (this is how his pass rate is so good). As an instructor, it turns out he was atrocious. I realised this when I was practicing with my parents for free. They taught me more. And yet his pass rate remains high........ And what was the recommendation of the examiner after I wrongly failed my test? Why not have more lessons with him? Oh yes, I know your game. I did take more lessons. With someone else. And as for my first instructor? I've blacklisted him in every sixth form on the island. He's finished.

3) The theory test. £10 more expensive than the UK for no apparent reason, conducted only once a week. Why does it cost more? And what use is knowing about bus timetables and the envionment to drive a car safely anyway? Fortunately we don't have the equally contemptible hazard perception test here. Yet.

4) Book the practical test, not bothering to tell my instructor, who is stringing out the lessons. He hasn't made a useful comment for the past 7. He's barely even said a thing, just tuning the radio and changing the channel from radio 5 live to a cr*p local one with hiphop music. I'm sat in the little booking office, perplexed at how my traffic committee has squandered vast amounts of money on glossy leaflets telling me the correct size of my L plate, in German, and 'How to get the best out of your taxi service' (normally I've found waiting at a taxi rank for one to arrive works quite well). Considering the number of leaflets they would have had to order from a local printing press (I recently viewed the financial statements of a local printer, and it costs alot and there are minimum quantities you can order) they must have thousands of leaflets that are so glossy they can't even get rid of them as hamster cage lining. I make the assumption that it was a budget stunt, to use all their cash up in the days when they had more money than they could spend, and turn around. After being repulsed by the appearance of the latest civil servant, a massive greasy looking 17 year old, I book my test (having sat in the empty office for ten minutes waiting, after having followed the procedure to phone upstairs for assistance). He seems somewhat shocked and confused when I pay with a debit card, and has to call another civil servant to swipe it, upstairs. That's another five minutes. Finally it's over, and I can get the hell out of there.

5) Take the test. I do not go with an instructor, big mistake. No favouratism to put another potential killer on the road this time. I deserve to fail, clipping a hedge on one of Guernsey's narrow lanes, and I don't really notice until much later that the examiner didn't take note of that mistake and instead failed me for doing the 'reverse round a corner' manouvre whilst a car was approaching. That car wasn't approaching. It was parked. And I only found out after the test. I don't really care anyway, I deserved to fail and I assume the examiner made an honest mistake. I have to go through the charade of booking again, this time with cash in hand, and I wait for the second test.

6) I fail the second test. This time I'm a bit miffed. I fail for my parellel park. What was wrong with it? 'I just didn't like it, nothing specific.' Er, I'm paying you £26 and that's all you can say. I need to make note for next time you stupid old duffer, so as not to fail. Then it gets me thinking. P*ss poor reasons for failing. What's going on? I suddenly realise I didn't fail the test at all. But on this occasion I don't believe I have a voice or that it is worth fighting, so I book the test again.

7) Third test. This time Guernsey has taken someone on on a contract from Wales. A DSA examiner, and a complete idiot (doing a sociology A-Level no less). And someone who is so thick that I don't want to hold a conversation, so I turn the radio on (which is allowed) just quiet enough to hear his instructions. I choose radio 4, guaranteed to confuse any driving examiner. This time I only get three minors. My examiner looks at his form, and looks again. He scratches his head. And then he bungs another couple of ticks, majors, on my form. Made up on the spot. One is for 'speed' - I drove within the limits, but on one occasion he felt I drove too fast for the conditions. 'Where?' 'Er..... at the very start of the test, down the main road.' 'You mean the 35mph road that I drove down at 30mph while there wasn't any other traffic in sight?' 'Er. just generally. You drove too fast just generally.' 'Give me strength.' And he looks at his form again and sees his other tick was for road signs. He tells me I didn't stop at a junction stop (we have yellow line junctions in Guernsey that you have to stop at). I did, just like Sweezely. He can't even tell me which junction, because he is lying. And being failed for road signs is a bit rich from an idiot who asked me to stop on a yellow line (ie a kerb marking this time) which in Guernsey is only permitted with a valid traders license. Maybe he used this lie because he was still annoyed that I had refused to disobey the Highway Code. I make a complaint this time. I don't get a refund, but I hear he gets sent back to Wales earlier than expected.

After these experiences, I will take my test again, but I'm getting lessons from an ex-examiner who said the current Traffic Committee has committed a lot of 'howlers' lately. He also says he would never recommend my previous instructor to anyone. He is useless, and has cost me a small fortune. I don't know how he sleeps at night. I'm 21 and have a good graduate job. Most of the people he rips off are 17 and pay him everything they earn from a Saturday job. Come to think of it, I was probably a meal ticket for him.

You might wonder why the Traffic Committee should need to fail people unfairly. Well, think about it:

1) They have too many examiners for the job. Two would be plenty. They have three permanent and totally unnecessarily bring in a fourth on contract, who just sits in the office drinking tea all day. They have so many driving instructors that they can offer tests BACK to BACK on the same day to the same person. In order to pay for all of them, they actually need to fail everyone three times on average. I'm seen their budget. It pays for lots of civil servants to do nothing all day.

2) They need to pay for stupid leaflets no one reads

3) They can use the money for other areas of the Traffic Committee, so the States politicians can remain popular by keeping fuel prices at half that of the UK and so people can carry on mowing us down in their 4x4s.

Quite frankly, I find their game disgusting. Needless to say, my ex-examiner friend is going to accompany me on the next test. So, how does this link to the DSA?

Well, there's no competition, like in Guernsey. The service can be cr*p, like in Guernsey. They take far more money than they deserve from students, like in Guernsey. The examiners have the observation skills of a mole, like in Guernsey. They keep on raising the price of tests claiming they're in line with inflation, like in Guernsey. Like in Guernsey, they use the RPI instead of RPIX inflation rate and therefore take into account property prices when they're working out how much to charge learners to spend 40 minutes in the car with a sociology student who wants to drive round in circles.

Unlike Guernsey, however, the scheming wretches at the DSA want to make money rather than just increase their spending budget for the year. And as such, they have more reason to be worse. They have targets, pass thresholds per day, all sorts of aspects that go with the so called free market (although the lack of choice ridicules that. I wouldn't be sitting here writing now if there were a number of accredited examiners). I think it is shocking what they get away with, and if anyone cares to take a look at their financial statements, you can see their current net assets have risen by 30%. IN ONE YEAR. They pay dividends of between 1.5 and 2 million every year to their shareholders. They won't disclose the remuneration of certain directors, that get lumped into staff costs. It looks like they made a loss in the current year, but of course that is because they spent a lot on fixed assets and because they paid a dividend that took them into a loss. In fact, as a government agency, they're not allowed to make too much money, although there are no rules about directors' renumeration, dividends or amounts spend on long term assets. No, the DSA are making a fortune for themselves and their shareholders, at people like Sweezely's expense. Take a look at this committee meeting report:

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of … 011002.htm

It's a business now. It has no interest in who it puts on the roads, as long as it isn't many!

So, finally in this rather long post, this is my proposal:

Scrap driving tests and test centres. Scrap the theory test and the stupid hazard perception test. Put the responsibility of passing students into the hands of independent driving schools.

How will it work? The instructor will give you a license when he thinks you are ready. What are the controls against malpractice? On the one hand, instructors with fast pass rates will be the most popular (they will also have to hold government accredited training certificates and be a member of a professional body with a strict ethical code). This will protect against examiners stringing out the process. And to avoid putting dangerous drivers on the road, first there is the rules of the professional body of which they must be a member. Second, any student who crashes within a year of being passed for driving dangerously will lead to a fine against the driving instructor. Harsh, but a bonus of being assessed by your long term examiner is that he is expected to know you well enough to decide if you are mature enough to drive. A psychometric test will be included to decide if this is the case. Therefore he will be expected to only put safe drivers on the roads.


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#9 15-01-05 17:41:14

arib
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 258
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

sweezely wrote:

As for having my instructor sit in, I suppose that is the only way to truly confirm that these people are money grabbing sons on satan.  Even he knows what they're doing is totally unfair.  He's now taking people for tests 4 or 5 times before they even have a hope of passing.  People who he's said can actually drive better than him.  And he was a police driver!

Looking at this paragraph have you ever thought of asking another instructor to assess your driving. ie: Get a second opinion.
Just a thought.

arib

Offline

#10 15-01-05 17:59:54

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

I think an ex-policeman who did advanced courses should know what he's doing, unlike most driving examiners.

#11 16-01-05 12:07:42

Ammanvalley
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Stop signs were the one thing my instructor made sure I got right as there were several in my test area, and what he said to do was to bring the car to a complete stop and put the handbrake on for a second even if it isn't necessary then there can be no mistake. 
The person who was asked by the examiner if they wanted their instructor to sit in and then didn't have time to wait - the exact same thing happened to me on my 2nd fail.  I wanted him to sit in the car and she asked if I wanted him in.  I said yes, so she looked and he wasn't outside so she said well he isn't here so lets just go through it together.


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#12 16-01-05 14:31:01

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

I clarified with the examiner if I had needed to put the handbrake on, he said I didn't have to, I just had to stop.  I said I did.  He said I didn't.

He then forgot to take his rear view mirror with him.  That shows how on the ball he was.

#13 17-01-05 10:31:01

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Yes, unless it were on an upward slope, it would be extremely unwise to use the handbrake at a stop. It would delay the flow of traffic, it would make you look incompetent with the brake, you endanger yourself in relying on the hand brake to stop. And bear in mind you need to go as soon as possible after stopping.

Tips on how to drive aren't helping here. The matter in hand is whether the DSA is behaving ethically. I've seen the financial statements, and I would find such a claim a bit of a stretch. The company is doing far too well for what ought to be a non-profit organisation. I think getting Watchdog involved will be a nice populist way of finding out what a bunch of crooks they are.


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#14 17-01-05 13:17:55

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

sweezely wrote:

I clarified with the examiner if I had needed to put the handbrake on, he said I didn't have to, I just had to stop.  I said I did.  He said I didn't.

He then forgot to take his rear view mirror with him.  That shows how on the ball he was.

It is YOUR responsibility to ensure a rear view mirror is available for the examiner. They do keep some in the office in case somebody (like you) does not provide a suitably equiped vehicle.

This implies you did not take the test in a driving school car but in your own. Was there a reason for this?

No you do not NEED to put the handbrake on at a stop sign, you just need to make sure the car stops. The previous poster was just saying it can avoid any doubt.

Guernsey Driver wrote:

Yes, unless it were on an upward slope, it would be extremely unwise to use the handbrake at a stop. It would delay the flow of traffic, it would make you look incompetent with the brake, you endanger yourself in relying on the hand brake to stop. And bear in mind you need to go as soon as possible after stopping.

Using a handbrake at a stop sign is not unwise. You take each situation and assess whether it is necessary or useful. Your primary concern at a stop sign would be to ensure you have enough time to carry out very good observations before emerging - this is why you are being made to stop. Traffic flow is a secondary concern at this type of junction.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

Offline

#15 17-01-05 13:31:43

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

No, I'm sorry, that is absolute balderdash. Students, take note. You do not have to buy additional mirrors for the examiners. It would obviously create a surplus of additional rearview mirrors that people don't need. It is the examiners responsibility, and the least you should expect at £40 a go.

As for the hand brake, it is sometimes unwise. When you stop, and there is a safe gap to get away, you don't want to waste time with the hand brake if you want to be an efficient driver.


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#16 17-01-05 13:59:39

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

MrBassMan wrote:

It is YOUR responsibility to ensure a rear view mirror is available for the examiner. They do keep some in the office in case somebody (like you) does not provide a suitably equiped vehicle.

The only reason I didn't have one was that I was unaware until about 9:00pm before the morning test that the examiner would want one.  My driving instructor said it would be ok as they had them in the test centre and would mind.  And they didn't.

This implies you did not take the test in a driving school car but in your own. Was there a reason for this?

Had you actually read my first post you would know that I have a lot of driving experience in my own car.  It would be foolish (and more expensive) to take it in my instructor's when I am used to my own car.  My own car is also more manouverable and easier to drive.


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#17 17-01-05 14:26:31

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Guernsey Driver wrote:

No, I'm sorry, that is absolute balderdash. Students, take note. You do not have to buy additional mirrors for the examiners. It would obviously create a surplus of additional rearview mirrors that people don't need. It is the examiners responsibility, and the least you should expect at £40 a go.

I suggest you read the notes that accompanied your appointment confirmation letter under the section "Your car".

The car must have seat belts, a built-in headrest fitted to the front passenger seat and an adjustable rear-view mirror inside the car for the examiner to use

And they cost around £5 from places like Halfords, not £40.

sweezely - I was asking about the car use from curiosity, not because that is regarded as wrong.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#18 17-01-05 14:40:59

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

MrBassMan wrote:

And they cost around £5 from places like Halfords, not £40.

lol, I think he meant the TEST costs £40!  I would have gotten a mirror, but since there really wasn't much time, I thought getting good night's sleep before the test would be better (fat lot of good THAT did!).

So, do you think it's a good idea to take the test in you own car, or better to take it in the instructor's?


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#19 17-01-05 14:50:08

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

sweezely wrote:

So, do you think it's a good idea to take the test in you own car, or better to take it in the instructor's?

Normally the answer would be your instructor's car because you should not be doing the test unless you have satisfied your instructor that you are ready. In which case you should be OK doing everything in his car.

There are exceptions to this such as:
  Being taught by somebody else (parent etc)
  Recently changed instructor or instructor changed car
  Not had lessons for a long time.

Unfortunately most of these exceptions also give you a higher risk of failure.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#20 17-01-05 16:17:58

Alibran
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

MrBassMan wrote:
sweezely wrote:

So, do you think it's a good idea to take the test in you own car, or better to take it in the instructor's?

Normally the answer would be your instructor's car because you should not be doing the test unless you have satisfied your instructor that you are ready. In which case you should be OK doing everything in his car.

I'm not an instructor, but I am training to be one and have previously taught my partner to drive, and I have to agree with MrBassMan.

I know if I were an examiner, I would be happier for a candidate to take the test in their instructor's car, for a couple of reasons:

1. I would know that the instructor considered them to be safe on the road and able to pass the test.

2. The car would usually have dual controls, so I would know that if an emergency did occur, I would be able to take action.

It must be quite frightening for an examiner to get in a car with someone whose driving experience is totally unknown to them, knowing that their only recourse in an emergency would be to grab the steering wheel or pull on the handbrake.  Since examiners are only human like the rest of us, I figure a nervous examiner is more likely to make mistakes when assessing the candidate's performance on the test.  That's why I'd suggest to anyone that it's better to take the test in their instructor's car.


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#21 17-01-05 16:20:12

arib
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 258
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Guernsey Driver wrote:

No, I'm sorry, that is absolute balderdash. Students, take note. You do not have to buy additional mirrors for the examiners.

LEARNERS PLEASE NOTE.
You do need to supply a rear view mirror. As Mr Bassman has shown, it is stated in your appointment letter.
Who's to say there's a mirror for every examiner. If there isn't then your test won't take place. Yes, there are mirrors at the test centre but do as the letter says and you can't go wrong.
And lets face it, if you'd been supervised properly then there should have been one in the car anyway.

arib

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#22 17-01-05 16:49:35

sweezely
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Alibran wrote:
MrBassMan wrote:
sweezely wrote:

So, do you think it's a good idea to take the test in you own car, or better to take it in the instructor's?

Normally the answer would be your instructor's car because you should not be doing the test unless you have satisfied your instructor that you are ready. In which case you should be OK doing everything in his car.

I'm not an instructor, but I am training to be one and have previously taught my partner to drive, and I have to agree with MrBassMan.

I know if I were an examiner, I would be happier for a candidate to take the test in their instructor's car, for a couple of reasons:

1. I would know that the instructor considered them to be safe on the road and able to pass the test.

2. The car would usually have dual controls, so I would know that if an emergency did occur, I would be able to take action.

It must be quite frightening for an examiner to get in a car with someone whose driving experience is totally unknown to them, knowing that their only recourse in an emergency would be to grab the steering wheel or pull on the handbrake.  Since examiners are only human like the rest of us, I figure a nervous examiner is more likely to make mistakes when assessing the candidate's performance on the test.  That's why I'd suggest to anyone that it's better to take the test in their instructor's car.


I can appreciate that.  I can imagine how they feel when they get nervous wrecks of learners completely unable to drive.

On the other hand, my instructor is perfectly willing to take me out in my own car, and said there could be no problems with me taking the test in my own car.  Also, I find it a mighty coincidence that the only test I've taken in my own car is the only test in which the examiner hasn't taken any physical action. 

My first test (the one which I deserved to fail anyway), the examiner grabbed the steering wheel out of my hand because I went to turn right instead of left.  I said "ok, right," put my right signal on and he said nothing.  As I started to turn he shouted "LEFT!" and grabbed the steering wheel, leaving me jacknifed in the middle of the road.  I had to reverse back to the junction to turn the car.  It wasn't a one way street, and I certainly wasn't doing anything dangerous.  I simply misheard his directions.  Had anything been coming, they would have crashed into me.  The examiner could just have gone another way.  He must have known the area - he had an incredibly broad local accent.

That incident has made me sceptical of letting the examiner have any control at all. I can't trust them.

#23 17-01-05 22:46:23

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

There are certain rules, no doubt put in place by the DSA to save themselves money, that do not apply in Guernsey. Again, any Guernsey students on this site please note you do not have to supply the examiner with equipment to do his job, he is expected to provide it. And I suggest the DSA take some of that wealth they rob from young people learning to drive and buy some mirrors for themselves. Not that I have any faith that the examiners will use them.

Another issue I think should be checked is dual control. In Guernsey, dual control even being switched on in a test makes that test null and void. Use is unheard of. I wonder what the rules stipulate over there?


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#24 18-01-05 00:51:14

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

Guernsey Driver wrote:

There are certain rules, no doubt put in place by the DSA to save themselves money, that do not apply in Guernsey. Again, any Guernsey students on this site please note you do not have to supply the examiner with equipment to do his job, he is expected to provide it. And I suggest the DSA take some of that wealth they rob from young people learning to drive and buy some mirrors for themselves. Not that I have any faith that the examiners will use them.

Another issue I think should be checked is dual control. In Guernsey, dual control even being switched on in a test makes that test null and void. Use is unheard of. I wonder what the rules stipulate over there?

My post was a reply to somebody taking the UK driving test, so I think you were perhaps over-reacting sad

As the rules in Gurnsey are so different, it may be useful to keep your remarks on a seperate thread to avoid confusing other learners.


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#25 18-01-05 14:59:52

Guernsey Driver
Guest

Re: Failed twice, for pure lies.

They weren't that different that long ago. The DSA has a lot to answer for!

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