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#76 14-01-07 22:11:57

ams
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From: West Pinchbeck, Spalding, Linc
Registered: 03-01-07
Posts: 199

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Agree with Chris that the industry does need to be regulated and believe that compulsory ordit accreditation for ADI training providers is one step towards that. Many instructors gripe on about the likes of TIC and other companies flooding the market, however the only organisation that can control the numbers of ADI / PDI's is the DSA.


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14-01-07 22:11:57

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Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)




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#77 15-01-07 00:25:59

Karenadi
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Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Be careful of the weeks where you have most of the lessons paid for in advance and you've not much money comming in.  It's easy to look at your bank acount somtimes an think you are doing a lot better than you are. (Please accept you as meaning we)

Just a point re this: if people pay me in advance for lessons (often up to 10 weeks at a time), I ALWAYS put their money in a separate account: called Prepaids, and I only transfer that money to my current/working account when they've had their lesson: that way it appears as that weeks takings/earnings rather than feeling like I've worked for nothing.  PLUS if for any reason they required a refund: I've always got their money to hand and it can be returned easily, as it's not spent.  I operate my accounts via the internet, and it's quick and easy.

#78 15-01-07 09:39:27

CarlatPUK
Verified Member
From: Worcestershire
Registered: 28-03-06
Posts: 323
Website

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Sounds much like we operate Karen, first thing to learn is not to spend what you aint earned!


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#79 16-01-07 12:48:56

Macca
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Registered: 01-11-04
Posts: 193

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Hi Dimmy/Kev

You might not realise it but The Instructor College (TIC), Lets Drive, Red and ADI News are all infact the same company namely LVG limited. The names are but brands of LVG. So it is not surprising that the arrangements are similar.

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#80 16-01-07 20:07:37

stetiatai
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Registered: 16-01-07
Posts: 2

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Have been reading the various comments made about TIC and feel compelled to write. Although I am new to this website I have been an ADI for 18 years. I have also been reading numerous comments made on other ADI forums over the past year or so and have never really felt a need to add my comments. However I am really shocked at the continual "slatting" TIC and other training organisations are constantly receiving. OK so we all have problems with our training from time to time, myself included many years ago, but some of the issues being raised beggar belief.
Firstly there is this issue of what is really 40 hours training on Part 3? When I received my training , through BSM, I was clearly told that it would be 2-1 (as was my Part 2). Why is this a problem? I learnt as much sitting in the back of the car as I did sitting in the front. I appreaciated being able to sit back and watch the driving and listen to someone elses different perspective whether it be right or wrong! One to one training can be very tiring for the majority of people and the input of several people can be far more beneficial! The comment that sitting in the back does not count towards the 40 hours is ridiculous! Does that therefore mean that sitting in a classroom with other people is not a full days training because you were not getting 1-1 training? Part 3 training in class is also imperative. I have seen the standard of lesson plans drawn up by trainees by themselves and on the whole it was not a pretty sight (mine included!). The continual cry " I was not ready after my 40 hours"! What does everyone expect for heavens sake. I wasn't ready but you didn't hear me ranting and raving at BSM. I just got off my backside and did something about it, and yes I also paid good money for my course! I practised on my friends, I practised onto a tape, I asked for extra training, I went on a pink badge, I observed other ADI's, and yes I passed first time!! You have to work hard to get the qualification and that often involves using commonsense. Not by moaning! I was not gifted in shape or form infact I have suffered with a speech impediment for most of my life. When i started my course I knew it would be hard but I also knew I could not just rely on the training officers!
For those that moan about the wait for training times. I have lost count of the amount of people who expect to be trained on demand. IT DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT! and never has. I have seen people push for their training quickly and in most cases will fail tests in quick sucession (and back they go to the beginning!) and then blame the training organisation because they can't get a refund! OK so we are not all the same BUT you must have practise time in between to learn a life skill. Plus when you do offer alot of people extra time or quicker gaps they invariably say "oh I can't make that day or that day" and complain later!
Finally, there is this constant cry that TIC are just out to make money! NO! Sorry are there trainers out there doing the course for free! Of course people start the course and don't finish it,  that has always been the case - just like many other types of training courses. Who are we to say that somoene who wants to become an ADI should not do it. I personally would have been offended to be told I shouldn't do it. When I did finally finish my course I too struggled to begin with but then so do most when starting up. However I kept going and through hard work and determination i am still around. Yes I had to badger my school and yes I had to work to get recommendations BUT that is what being an ADI is all about.
There is still work out there for new ADI's which is why I am still getting calls from driving schools. So all the time the schools need instructors why shouldn't the likes of TIC keep advertising. So they charge over £3000. But for that you get over 100 hours training. Approx. £30 an hour is that really expensive? But you do not get spoon fed for that. Please stop all the moaning and remember that there are many many instructors doing very well out there who have all worked (and are still working) very hard. By the way there the ones that that don't complain.

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#81 16-01-07 20:35:19

Scattyem
Verified Member
From: Cambridgeshire
Registered: 12-10-06
Posts: 235

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

well said stetiatai.

What a fantastic post.

;D   ;D   ;D


Gremlin Driver training. The empire starts...........

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#82 16-01-07 21:02:34

Karenadi
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Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Well: someone who has made the exact point at last: you know stetiatai: I reckon I could of written that: it is so right.


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#83 16-01-07 21:16:51

kev elliott
Guest

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Hi Dimmy/Kev

You might not realise it but The Instructor College (TIC), Lets Drive, Red and ADI News are all infact the same company namely LVG limited. The names are but brands of LVG. So it is not surprising that the arrangements are similar.

Macca, Lets Drive is now part of LVG but it was not when i started my training with them.


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#84 17-01-07 00:37:52

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

dimmy, re tic free 6 months of accountants; my deal was one year free, and i used them to do the following year as well...if i had been wiser i wouldn't have.
£300 is a very steep price to pay, especially when you have to write down everything on the supplied paperwork, and even add it all up for them, so all your lessons plus all the expenditure, written out and added up, and totaled at the end.
now have an accountant, all receipts stapled to the diary pages = FINISHED! all for £150. after 30h of driving lessons i hardly want to spend another 3 doing the accounts every week and pay so much to calculate few percentages  roll


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#85 17-01-07 23:00:19

Macca
Verified Member
Registered: 01-11-04
Posts: 193

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Have been reading the various comments made about TIC and feel compelled to write. Although I am new to this website I have been an ADI for 18 years. I have also been reading numerous comments made on other ADI forums over the past year or so and have never really felt a need to add my comments. However I am really shocked at the continual "slatting" TIC and other training organisations are constantly receiving................................................etc

I find it strange that you would be shocked or feel the need to defend TIC and the other companies of whom you clearly have no experience of. I am sure some students really have little to complain about but I am equally sure many do. If the training company makes the potential trainee fully aware of

I) the fact that there is no national shortage of driving instructors and there are now over 41,000 active Approved Driving Instructors on the DSA register plus around 10,000 trainees at any one time

ii) precisely what training is being offered (i.e. how many hours of classroom, open learning, in-car training 1-1 or 2-1, whether multiple trainers or a dedicated trainer is assigned, whether in-car sharing is with one student or many etc), how big the gaps between training will be;

iii) what effort they need to put in to be successful (i.e. how many hours of home work/practice and whether the course really needs for you to take out a trainee license to be successful at part 3 etc) many part 3 courses are inadequate without a trainee license;

iv) how long it will really take (i.e. based on DSA exam waiting times, trainers availability and students flexibility, 6-18 months typical);

v) what the UK pass rates really are (i.e. 58%, 45%, 26%) and that any company who claimed to train more than 50% must logically be the main contributor and for any percent they claim to be above these rates means everyone else must be a percent below them;

v) that there are no real guarantees of income (i.e. schools don't pay you - you pay them with no guarantees of work provided) and it is certainly untrue to say getting pupils or work is no problem;

vi) and the fact that the school they are promoting to entice you to buy would either prefer to train you direct or only exists to sell instructor training and have little intention of employing you;

then I think there would be fewer complaints provided of course the Instructor Training company did what they stated. Unfortunately, what the sales person or sales literature state is not always what is in the contract and sadly many people just ignore the small print and then feel aggrieved when it is not what they though or believed they were buying.  Surely you can appreciate this. Just because you had it hard doesn’t mean everyone should especially if unlike you they were sold on false and/or misleading expectations.

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#86 18-01-07 12:24:30

stetiatai
Member
Registered: 16-01-07
Posts: 2

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Thank you Macca for taking the time to read my comments.
I agree with the points you have made and do not wish to start any arguements (petty or otherwise) on this forum as I have seen happen on other forums in the past. However one thing you stated which I am afraid does annoy me and unfortunately is the sort of thing that that causes unnecessary aggrevation is the comment "and the other companies of whom you clearly have no experience of". How do you base your assumption? The majority of your points have no bearing on the points I raised. However I would like to answer the points you raised based on my experience in the industry.

i) I think you will find that both BSM and TIC (and several others I have seen on the internet) do state what training is being offered and do advise if it will be on a shared basis (the complaints seem to be for 2-1 training!!! - my point being why?!). They also advise how many days training there is in class and car. In most cases this is the minimum and extra training can be provided. However NOBODY can tell you exactly how many hours you will need so whatever is stated can only be a guideline. I have never heard or read that the training offered is all that is needed to pass the test! Everybody is different.

ii) Please Macca! Do we have crystal balls! Again everyone is different just like our learner drivers. People ARE advised to practise and study at home how much they do is an individual thing. Plus if that person chooses not to practise/study at home what is the trainer supposed to do. I have heard the comment "why should I practise when I have paid you to train me" far too many times. You cannot talk about a trainee licence being right for everyone and you surely cannot know if it is right until they get to and have finished their Part 3  training.

iii) & iv) Can you tell anyone how long their course will take or how long a learner will take to be ready? NO! We can only advise. However tell someone that the course will take 6months upwards (which is fair) and they hear "it will take them 6months!!!". You cannot win! However when anyone is selling anything they will always give you the best case senario. I was told a mirror I ordered would take 3 weeks to arrive. 6 weeks later still no mirror! Why because there was a delay with the supplier which they hadn't expected. My point - you say the course will take 6 months but it didn't. Why? they failed their tests, the DSA was slow. their test was cancelled, they cancelled sessions, they were sick etc etc. If you always gave the worst case senario (honest or not) you would sell very little!

v) I thought TIC and BSM (and others) made it clear that it was self employed. I was told how much I could earn based on so many hours and I see websites do the same. Nobody is stating a guaranteed income. There are pupils who want lessons out there and there alot of instructors earning good money. They work hard to get the lessons. There are schools out there with positions for new instructors (fact!) BUT they do not and cannot guarantee hours every single week. For heavens sake that is being self employed. The advertising might confuse some but it is not misleading. Too many people misread or mishear the words written or said.

vi) Confused!!! We are all running a business. There is work out there and as an ADI you can choose who you work for!

Yes I have been caught out by not reading the small print with Claims Direct (now gone bust). Who's fault mine! Yes I did feel aggrieved because I was actually lied to face to face (should have read the small print!!). However my points raised on my previous posting were more to do with the 40hours on Part 3 and the amount of hard work we all need to put into our courses. I feel I have answered your issues as honestly as I can and I am not going go on anymore. I have alot more experience than you give me credit for. I am afraid too many people come onto courses with their eyes half closed and expect everything to come to them easily. Too many people hear what they want to and do not check things written properly. The contracts and leaflets do say what is correct - fact!

How many times has a puplil said "you never told me I had to give 48 hours notice of  cancellation!". Oh yes I did and it's written down! or "you told me I would only need 30 hours to be ready for my test!"

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#87 18-01-07 14:55:45

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
Website

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Stet I trained with tic and the one thing I would say is they make you wait far too long between part 2 sessions 3 weeks minimum. When there are 5 training sessions for this alone takes 15 weeks which is of course nearly 4 months. Then after waiting from initial payment to wait for clarification from dsa and then book theory is another 3 weeks at least more if your unlucky. Then waiting for part 2 date even if your lucky enough to pass first time. let alone waiting for part 3 training to start and it used to be done over a longer period of time than it is now.

I would say very few people can pass in 6 months with tic. They are told to tell you to wait 3 weeks by head office-I got fed up with this and booked all sessions in advance by sweetalking the service receptionist at the time.

I think tic are a very good comapny with some quite important weakness. As afterall we all have weaknesses and im sure tic will adopt a different approach one day as they are always evolving.

BSM are the same-make you wait for ever. But does this mean they are a crap company. I mean once upon a time they would have been virtually the only place you could have obtained training as market leaders in the field for a very long time-pioneers in fact.

I cannot knock the fact that some of the smaller companies and independants might give a slightly better level of personal tuition-they can afford to. But you areno more likely to get a better personal trainer from this soup kitchen than any other as we already know a grade 6 or whatever else they hold doesnt guarantee good training. More to the point it doesnt guarantee you have the abilities mentaly or otherwise to pass a part 3.

Even when we are at primary school and above we are taught that school work is not enough if you wish to excel-homework and ass much practice with learning is they key to anyone gaining what qualification they want to.

Rant over


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#88 18-01-07 15:58:24

Scattyem
Verified Member
From: Cambridgeshire
Registered: 12-10-06
Posts: 235

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

two good posts, stet and captainhook.

;D


Gremlin Driver training. The empire starts...........

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#89 18-01-07 17:43:42

Macca
Verified Member
Registered: 01-11-04
Posts: 193

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

..................I have alot more experience than you give me credit for. I am afraid too many people come onto courses with their eyes half closed and expect everything to come to them easily. Too many people hear what they want to and do not check things written properly. The contracts and leaflets do say what is correct - fact!

How many times has a puplil said "you never told me I had to give 48 hours notice of  cancellation!". Oh yes I did and it's written down! or "you told me I would only need 30 hours to be ready for my test!"

Sorry didn't mean to suggest you have no experience of these Companies or the industry as a whole simply that you haven't purchased a training course from the companies often complained about or been trained by them and should therefore not be quick to defend them. For the same reason you can not condenm them either. Each case has to be looked at individually on its merits. Yes, you are right many people do not look into things as they should and are often too trusting of what they are told. I have personally studied sales materials from these companies and have found some to be very misleading and in some cases dishonest. 

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#90 18-01-07 17:56:23

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

i have trained with TIC, and have to say that for part 3 they did not prepare me well enough, the faults that i had occurred on the first failed test where all observation blind spot checking 6 in total plus 2 others not related. all down to the fact that someone forgot to tell me that i MUST check all blind spots despite the fact there is a hedge on the right, or that if i don't wait for the examiner to watch me do the m-S-m, and add an extra mirror for good measure it might be treated as a fault   roll. so when the examiner said my msm was a bit muddled, i was baffled as to what she meant. only after analyzing the whole drive, you can think of the reasons, because you don't ask things (too shocked), when you have been told you have failed a diving test (first time in your life yikes).

all the trainers seemed to have a different idea of what was necessary too.

the most important thing i wanted to learn was HOW TO BE an instructor, how to teach those subjects that we needed to teach.
instead it was pst, pst. it left me no wiser on to how to do the job or how to teach the subjects and what subjects to teach.

unfortunately i only discovered this forum after i had qualified.


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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#91 18-01-07 18:52:27

Scattyem
Verified Member
From: Cambridgeshire
Registered: 12-10-06
Posts: 235

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

I am nearing the end of my training with the tic, and despite reading all that is on here, and listening to what the local adi's think about the college, i have to say that it is what i expected the course to be. I didn't research into the training of instructors and went with them after reading their ad in our local paper. Ok i am easily pleased, but i am also one who goes out and makes things happen!

I have never had a problem booking sessions in when i wanted them, the two trainers i trained with have always given me the impression that they genuinely what me to pass and will do as much as they can to help me. They have always been on the end of the phone if i needed advice, and i have had no problem in getting extra training sessions. They have answered evry question i have asked, and also given me good reason as to why things are as they are.

I remember sitting in my part one sessions with guys (being the only female in the group, so no offence to males on this web site) who constantly fought with the trainer about the questions and answers. no one seemed to realise it is the dsa way, or no way. Even on part three (part 2 i trained mostly with another female) when i have been with some guys, they still argue the case, or shoot back a negative attitude. You'd have thought by then they would be getting the idea that maybe sometinmes the trainers do know what they are talking about!!!! This is where it is a challenge to the trainers to get these people on the right track, after all the recruitment side of the tic is a business!!!!

agree with dimmy in the fact that every lesson i have taught, there has been something extra that i have taken to it from the tic, apart from the  pst format!

Hope that all made sense!!!! 


Gremlin Driver training. The empire starts...........

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#92 18-01-07 19:07:46

Evan
Guest

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

The people who make it on the course (no matter where or who they train with), are the ones who put maximum effort in themselves. There ARE good trainers in TIC, I had some very good trainers, but you have to be prepared to get off of your a r s e and motivate yourselves. But that is true about any course.


'Horse to water and drink', spring to mind.

YOU are in charge of your own destiny, YOU can make it happen with your own determination. Nothing that is worth having ever drops into your lap. Ev

#93 18-01-07 19:49:56

Scattyem
Verified Member
From: Cambridgeshire
Registered: 12-10-06
Posts: 235

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

agree with your posting too ev!!

Dimmy, agree too, what is perfect???!!!!!

The number of evenings i have had my notes all across the desk, and the pc occupied with lesson plans. the fact that everyone conversation i have had has incorporated driving some where in it, much to my husbands annoyance! i am living and breathing driving instruction, allowing of course for elevensies!!! well you got to have a break!!!!!

is it me, or do you read adi news from cover to cover too, dimmy?

heres to everyone who wants it, success.    ;D


Gremlin Driver training. The empire starts...........

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#94 19-01-07 20:14:22

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

As I said earlier, I have few complaints regarding the training I received at TIC, although  more demonstrations from the instructors would I think be useful. As for the favorite, complaint about sharing of the training,(2 to 1)  I found to be an advantage.  You have a sense of camaraderie, with your fellow pupil.  You get to learn from their mistakes.  After cooking your head doing a turn in the road for 45 mins, it's quite a relief to sit in the back and watch your training companion doing their bit. 


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#95 20-01-07 00:12:07

timmanwaringadi
Verified Member
From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
Website

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

I did 2:1 training on both parts 2 and 3 and thoroughly enjoyed it, just didn't like the quantity. I feel 2:1 is ok, but should a trainer be paid twice for his time? Maybe pay slightly more, but offer more time in the car to compensate for this.

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#96 20-01-07 07:32:28

CarlatPUK
Verified Member
From: Worcestershire
Registered: 28-03-06
Posts: 323
Website

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

Believe me, from a trainers point of view 2:1 for 4 hours or more is plenty thanks, after that I don't feel I can give my best to my PDIs, having said that almost all my training is delivered on a 1:1 basis anyway, again tow 2 hour sessions in a day is plenty.
As for paying the trainer more what a nice thought!!


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#97 20-01-07 09:13:58

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
Website

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

I still think 1-1 training is better as we would do with a learner.


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#98 20-01-07 11:33:33

Macca
Verified Member
Registered: 01-11-04
Posts: 193

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

I still think 1-1 training is better as we would do with a learner.

1-to-1 in-car training is not necessarily better or worse than 2-to-1

Advantages of 1-to-1 over 2-to-1
Easier for the trainer to deliver - don't need to worry about involving second trainee
Much easier to target training to the specific needs of the individual
Much easier to keep to a training plan or structure
Trainee can be sure of getting what they paid for
Don’t have to compete with or get on with another trainee
Quality of training more consistent

Disadvantages
Can only do short busts of training before trainee becomes fatigued

Advantages of 2-to-1 over 1-to-1
Ideal for intensive training as the trainee can be swapped in and out of the hot seat (try doing 4 hours 1-to-1 and you will appreciate this)
You can learn while watching another trainee for free
Provides competitive motivation

Disadvantages
Requires more skill from the trainer to keep both trainees involved
Needs both trainees to be of a similar aptitude to work well
Needs both trainees to be at the same point in the course plan to work well
Trainees need to get on with each other to work well
Provides competitive demotivation
One trainee may hog the time if not equally shared

So at its best 2 hours at 2-to-1 is better than 1 hour 1-to-1. However, this can easily be reversed if any of the above 2-to-1 disadvantages materialise. Therefore 2-to-1 training can be a bit hit and miss whereas 1-to-1 is far more consistent and sure. This is why some people think 2-to-1 training is great while others feel it is crap.

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#99 20-01-07 12:28:47

captainhook
Verified Member
Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
Website

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

But your not watching another trainee for free-you have paid for it. You are paying for 40 hours part 3 training and only receiving a fraction of this. My 40 hours part 3 training was at least 20 hours in class. Leaving remaining 20 hours split between 2 so only 10 hours in the hot seat.


For intensive driving courses or weekly lessons from a driving school using the latest Audi A3 - covering the Slough and surrounding areas - visit www.go-pass-driving-school.co.uk

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#100 20-01-07 15:50:57

kev elliott
Guest

Re: The Instructor College (nationwide)

For what its worth I think that the individual PDI must be careful to choose the method of training that suits them, this could be that their preference is to have all the training from one provider such as TIC, Lets Drive, AA or BSM, or to pay as they go with a local instructor. It must be the PDI's decison as to what training method they prefer as only they know how they best learn and what level of commitment they are able to offer. As with all major decisions it is important to gather as much information as possible from approriate sources, and if possible the experiences of others with the options considered. In my own case I was trained by an instructor who used 2:1 but at no time did i feel that the time in back seat was wasted - partly due to the fact that I tried to learn from the good and bad points of the PDI in the hot seat but largely due to the attitude of the instructor he always managed to keep all in the car involved by asking for comments on what had happened, Good bad and indifferent. The motivation that this gives is remarkable its a bit like a mini test! The only problem the instructor ever had was with PDI's who turned up without any preparation for the subject in hand as this tended to mean that the lesson was reduced to him covering the basics.

In summary, the instructor is the key to your part 3 training - to a large extent it is irrelevant which organisation they represent, if they can teach and inspire you to work then you will be successful, if they cannot then you will need to have a great deal of self motivation (and help from DTT of course) to gain that success.   

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