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#1 28-12-04 05:37:46

jonks
Guest

Police advanced driving

Are there any major differences between the the Advanced driving course for the police, and an advanced driving course for civillians?

28-12-04 05:37:46

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Re: Police advanced driving



#2 28-12-04 21:39:46

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

Jonks,
           There are great differences between the two standards,the main one is speed and vehicle stability,there are also three parts to it during the six weeks.I will not go into detail about each section as no doubt there will be individuals who would not agree with the training set out for us,but the civilian IAM and ROSPA are more of a watered down version of the system of car control,and the roadcraft book.
                                                            Stephen

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#3 29-12-04 23:40:11

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Police advanced driving

Stephen7738 wrote:

Jonks,
           There are great differences between the two standards,the main one is speed and vehicle stability,there are also three parts to it during the six weeks.I will not go into detail about each section as no doubt there will be individuals who would not agree with the training set out for us,but the civilian IAM and ROSPA are more of a watered down version of the system of car control,and the roadcraft book.
                                                            Stephen

Ok Stephen I am assuming your talking about Class 1 training here?  (6 weeks) Firstly, ok then what about normal response police vehicles compared to advanced driving?

I also think you shouldn't be put off going into detail (or perhaps summarising if it takes too long..6 weeks phew!).  SO WHAT if individuals don't agree with the training.. at the end of the day you have a job to do and I'm sure you can justify it.  You know that someone or other will take a pop at you I'm sure you can handle them  wink

Come on mate...spill the beans  lol

Lynne

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#4 30-12-04 22:47:10

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

Lynne,
          I will try and be as informative without being to boring the difference between response driver's and advanced in police terms are as follows.
1. Response drivers go through a 4 week driving course which is still based on Roadcraft they start at the begining and build up at week two they get a check drive to see if they are on target and make sure there is no major problems,this part of the course is done in unliveried vehicle's ranging from 1600cc to 2000cc turbo manual and automatic the reasoning behind this is purely to show that you have to use your skill and concentration to get things right and members of the public wont make life easy for you like they do when you drive a liveried vehicle,beleive you me you get your eyes opened with some of the stunts that other motorist's pull until they realise that it is a car full of coppers behind them especially if they don't want you to overtake them.The roads that you mainly drive on in the first two weeks are country mainly to get used to speed,corner's and bends,overtakes,etc.
The third week is carried out in a liveried vehicle this is what they call the response week,this is when you are taught to drive under emergency conditions,ie blues and two's,you mainly drive around town's,they show you how to plan your approach to traffic lights and main complex junctions also how to prioritise hazards set out in a driving plan.
Then the final drive week you just polish up on the previous three weeks ,the final drive is split into two parts normal progressive systematic then hopefully the same whilst under emergency conditions. If you pass this you go back to division hopefully maintain the standards that you have gained in driving,but as a lot of you have pointed out whilst you have been out and about the standards would seem to slip,between you and me most only try hard to pass once they have got there standard driving authority most are not interested in driving in fact i would go s far and say as soon as they leave the driving school they seem to forget everything they have been taught. Once you have mapped out your carreer then you can apply for traffic then go and have a further six weeks driving which is totally different again. So if you have not fell asleep by now if you have any questions on what i have written feel fre to ask it is probably easier than me trying to explain it all  but you see there are not only differences in how police train but more so in how civilians are trained ie IAM Rospa.
Stephen

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#5 01-01-05 08:59:09

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Police advanced driving

Stephen7738 wrote:

Lynne,
          I will try and be as informative without being to boring the difference between response driver's and advanced in police terms are as follows.

I thought it was interesting smile

Stephen7738 wrote:

... you get your eyes opened with some of the stunts that other motorist's pull ....[

Hmm yep we get that too, not in the same way as you guys obviously but some of the stunts people pull when they see 'L' plates, especially on the run up to Xmas when they thought the world was going to end on the Saturday......

Stephen7738 wrote:

If you pass this you go back to division hopefully maintain the standards that you have gained in driving,but as a lot of you have pointed out whilst you have been out and about the standards would seem to slip,between you and me most only try hard to pass once they have got there standard driving authority most are not interested in driving in fact i would go s far and say as soon as they leave the driving school they seem to forget everything they have been taught.

Mmmmm .... can agree there!  A common scenario however, Do they/you NOT have to ever sit a re-test????

Stephen7738 wrote:

Once you have mapped out your carreer then you can apply for traffic then go and have a further six weeks driving which is totally different again. So if you have not fell asleep by now if you have any questions on what i have written feel free to ask.....

Thanks for that Steve.  Made you work typing that lot out huh?

Lynne

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#6 01-01-05 21:49:45

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word interesting I should have just stuck with the word difference,I hope i have enlightened you to the different standards of training between standard and advanced.Yes,we do have to take refresher courses every three years,but this is just for advanced drivers.Section officerswill only get some form of retraining if it is for remedial ie they have been involvedin a collision and a training need identified,this is were they struggle and normaly get recomended for a further 2 weeks training to pass.
                                     Stephen

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#7 11-01-05 10:44:25

Anonymous
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

Not all Police training is set over the same period although the standard that the officer needs to reach is the same. Some force areas train advanced drivers on a 4 week sytem. It just means the learning curve is more vertical.

#8 30-01-05 18:26:21

simonjones
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

Question for Stephen (and any other Police drivers) . . . I’m interested in the procedure one goes through to become a traffic police officer. Police driving is, or so I once read, above reproach. But, to make it seem more accessible to us mere mortals, it’s worth bearing in mind that you were all civilians once (in the same way as doctors are just ex-medical students), and therefore not necessarily completely out of our reach.

So, what do you have to go through to get the job? What are the upper age limits? And, do you enjoy your job?

#9 30-01-05 23:34:29

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

Simonjones,
                  Hello,i dont think that we are beyond reproach we are held a lot more accountable these day's than probably ever before.

The main reason why,civilians,cant be at police standard is as you say you are not police thats the simple answer.

The procedure to become a traffic officer is as follows,you firstly have to have completed your 2 yr probationary period,then apply when vacancy's are advertised. You have to pass an interview which is law based and policy and procedure. If you are successful then you will be posted pending the individual passing a Advanced driving course.

Yes,I do enjoy my job and that is an understatement,i love it as there is never two days,the same. The only thing that is spoiling it is the so called Government sticking there nose in and telling us how we should be policing consequently road policing is taking second place.

Hope this helps and i know it is brief but don;t know how much you want to know.
               Stephen

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#10 30-01-05 23:44:59

simonjones
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

Thanks – yes, this does help. I’m torn in several different directions at the minute, and joining Thames Valley is one of them. I should have done it ages ago. In March I’ll be 40 – am I too old to be realistically considering it?

#11 31-01-05 00:03:23

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

No, as there is no age limit for most forces now,but like me,i only joined at 29yrs so cant do my full 30yrs so wont get full pension unless i stay on untill im 60yrs.
The police service on front line duty is getting more and more for the younger person so it depends on how well you have kept yourself it will soon show when you are in. There is no limit for traffic either just means that you will be competing with the younger ones,so don't hang about as they are going to stop the pension scheme shortly and you will have to get your own.
                 Stephen

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#12 31-01-05 11:46:26

Gaz_ADI
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

My wife has just got into the police, she starts training in May, on her 41st Birthday, thats with Central Scotland, I do believe some other forces do have age restrictions, Strathclyde is 40 maximum.

#13 31-01-05 22:44:05

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

Well there you go i knew there must have been one or two who still have age restrictions,I hope she enjoys it as much as i do,do you think that she will stick it.
                Stephen

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#14 06-02-05 20:24:09

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Police advanced driving

Hi all,

Just to stick a spanner in the works here, there is nothing at all in the Road Traffic Act to stop Police civillian employees from becoming qualified to Police Class One standard, including the high speed aspects.

My local force has three 'support staff' members of the police driving school, all of whom are fully qualified as above. I know them all very well, and have been in regular touch with the police driver training unit for quite some time. I've been out with them frequently.

One of these is a retired officer, and did his training whilst still in the force. The other two were local ADI's who applied for the job and got it. They then did the full Roadcraft Advanced Course and the full Advanced Instructors course. Competition was fierce and they had to work extremely hard. They also found the Advanced Courses tough, but with hard work they got through.

I'm not sure of which other forces have civilian advanced instructors, but I do know that there are several.

regards


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#15 06-02-05 21:00:55

harvey
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

deleted!

#16 06-02-05 21:02:52

sss
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

you will also find some senior officer civilian drivers are also trained to response and advanced levels

#17 07-02-05 18:21:46

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

Harvey/Dashdriving,
                                forgive me if i have got it wrong but as far as i was aware at the moment there is no provisions within the home office guidelines,for civilians to take direct hands on Advanced driver training,however there is plans to rectify this,the reason for this is that they can not carry out the pursuit part of the training. This is based on my own force who have a number of civilian instructors,some of them who themselves are ex police officers,so perhaps we are behind the times,i personally dont think that it is acceptable that civilians should be training police officers,to drive to Advanced level as you need to have the experience of the level of driving that is required and acceptable,even though they have completed the course,i can accept that if the civilian has at some point been a police officer. There is no substitute for years of hands on experience in day to day road policing in every type of situation that being response and pusrsuit driving. This is just my own view and agree with the old saying horses for courses,i hope none of you feel that i am having a go at you,i await your reply with bated breath.

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#18 10-02-05 23:20:49

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Police advanced driving

Stephen,

Just to confirm it, 3 of the civillian support staff members have done the full class one advanced course. 2 of them have done the full 8 week advanced instructors course. They can drive at speed and they can instruct at speed.

The modern thinking on this is that you don't need to be a Police Officer to drive at speed, you just need to be trained and skillful in the use of Roadcraft. Don't forget that teaching high speed advanced driving is teaching a skill like any other . . . once they have the relevant qualifications they can teach high speed roadcraft driving to Police Officers.

Even the areas of being able to slow traffic, as in TPAC (tactical pursuit and containment) are now regarded as a 'grey area' and the Police are awaiting Home Office clarification. I can tell you with some certainty that it is fully expected that the Home Office will dictate that support staff will have this power.

However, I do agree with you completely when it comes to operational experience. Traffic patrol officers attend all kinds of serious collisions and incidents that other motorists will never usually see. Without any doubts, you develop a sense of hazard perception and situational awareness that is quite incredible. I think I mentioned before about a couple of Traffic Officers I trained to be ADI's . . . it was a breeze really. Part 2 was like a walk in the park, just a bit of training on the DSA system and we were home and dry.

When it comes to anything Police related, I think the Home Office are looking to save cash by civillianising all the jobs they can. All the anecdotal and job related experience will disappear and in several years they'll say "why don't we get Police Officers to train Police Officers? What a geat idea!"

regards


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#19 11-02-05 11:18:08

Gaz_ADI
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

Stephen7738 wrote:

Well there you go i knew there must have been one or two who still have age restrictions,I hope she enjoys it as much as i do,do you think that she will stick it.
                Stephen

Hi Stephen,

Yes I'm sure she will stick it, she has always wanted to do this, but when she originally enquired, about 20 years ago she was too small, but since there is no height restrictions any more she decided to have another go at it. She has been in the same job since she left school, so she is not the type to go round changing from job to job, and she is definitely looking forward to it now.

#20 11-02-05 11:34:44

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Police advanced driving

I wasnt referring to her moving from job to job just that no matter what she has been told about the job,she will find it first hand for herself.
She will meet the great British public who think that the police dont count when it comes to releasing prejudices,i call it the one way street culture when you hit back at them they  want to complain about you. We have some small police officers to say the least in our force and some of the things that get said must hurt,so I wish her all the best and luck for the future.
                              Stephen

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#21 11-02-05 12:00:13

Gaz_ADI
Guest

Re: Police advanced driving

Thanks for that Stephen, I'm sure she will be ok, she can be quite thick skinned when it comes to that sort of thing, she has to be with me, she comes from Edinburgh, me from Glasgow, so she gets stick from me all the time  lol  She's under no illusion that it is hard work and she will come across some not very nice people, but I think its the variety that attracted her to it in the first place.

#22 11-02-05 12:06:51

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,962

Re: Police advanced driving

Gaz
Please give your BETTER half my best wishes wink

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