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#1 27-10-06 20:25:37

pj
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From: surrey
Registered: 27-02-05
Posts: 1,794

Should all trainers be a grade 6

Chatting to another adi at the TC yesterday he said that he was thinking of doing ADI training. Now he's only been an ADI for 6 months  yikes, told him that I personally thought that only instructors who have been teaching for a minimum of 5 years and a grade 6 should be trainers. Think I upset him. Does anyone agree with me :? I know at least one member will  lol


PJ Dip DI

if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

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27-10-06 20:25:37

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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6



#2 27-10-06 20:39:28

hector
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From: Manchester
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Posts: 2,097
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

I know at least one member will

Do you mean me??? big_smile big_smile


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ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
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#3 27-10-06 20:42:37

VandADI
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From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,597

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Better make that two members then  wink big_smile

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#4 27-10-06 21:07:35

pj
Verified Member
From: surrey
Registered: 27-02-05
Posts: 1,794

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

I know at least one member will

Do you mean me??? big_smile big_smile

Well I didn't (not forgiven you yet for the women reversing comment lol) but I'm sure you would also agree, so I'll make that 3 members who agree with me then big_smile


PJ Dip DI

if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

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#5 27-10-06 21:20:31

wullieclark
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From: dunfermline
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 147

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

I only qualified as a grade 4 in february, but agree that trainers should be grade 6. how can you expect to teach instructors  to grade 6 level if you only reached grade 4 yourself?

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#6 27-10-06 21:25:21

Karenadi
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Should be a total must, and hold Cardington Special test.


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#7 28-10-06 07:20:37

marconi1
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From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

My last check test was a fleet check test, I do not do an awful lot of this work in fact I do not do any of it now as I only teach instructors. Unfortunately I only got a 5 I wont go into detail but it was because of the fleet side and suitability of my then client as a fleet candidate.

As some know I am a Dip.DI and also recently passed at grade A the 7407 adult teaching Cert as well as numerous other qualifications. I have ad several in car observations for my teaching from the college and a 'technical observation' from a very qualified ADI for my city and guilds where no faults could be found in fact I have received very glowing reports. Had I had been able to take an ordinary learner out I WOULD have got a 6 (cocky I know but I know the system inside out) as this is my bread and butter and I know a grade 6 lesson. Cardington I am doing on the 9th of next month but not so cocky about that one.

The trouble with the check test is that it is how you performed at that instant and on the opinion o one person at the time and for fleet that person has probably NO experience of fleet training.

ORDIT is probably a better assessment of a trainers ability.


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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#8 28-10-06 10:17:52

timmanwaringadi
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From: Devon
Registered: 29-08-06
Posts: 2,406
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

At my last check test I was a grade 5, and was asked by my former employer to do ADI training. I agreed because it's what I always wanted to do, but said I wanted more training to get me up to the standard - unfortunately this wasn't forthcoming, so I left, and am paying for training myself, and I am going to go for ORDIT. I really do not want to come away with anything less than a 6, as I feel the same way as the guys above. To be a trainer, you need to be the best. I've done a lot of work towards this, and am going to be doing more training before applying for ORDIT to make sure. In the meantime any PDIs I have I will make sure they take additional training with a grade 6 trainer, to make sure that they get the very best advice.
I am open about my grade, and about ORDIT, and I am determined to do the best by my trainees, so have no problem with offering training before I get that 6. I know I am giving better value than several 'trainers' in my area, even though my honesty loses me clients to the 'sales pitches'.

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#9 28-10-06 12:40:00

captainhook
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Registered: 12-06-06
Posts: 2,197
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

I think it should be down to the adi if they think they can teach a pdi afterall what are the chances of the pdi becoming a grade 6 on the part 3-very slim.

the truth of it is there are no special requirments to be a trainer. Even ORDIT is not anything special but an idea created by bsm.

the aa will not register as ordit because of this reason.

Says it all really.

If the dsa stipulated a trainer has to be a grade 6 then fine but they dont so it doesnt really matter what we think does it.

I mean even tic advertise that cardington is good and a grade 5 good but other than that they say a minimum of 12 months as adi andf they will train.

I think possibly an independant trainer grade 4 could possibly do as good or better job as tic trainer grade 6 because they might give a bit more of the personal touch instead of just farming them out.

hope i havnt been too controversail big_smile


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#10 28-10-06 12:53:05

luchell
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

On part three you don't actually get a grade just your mark for phase one and two so technically you're ungraded until your check test. You get your grade on the check test  smile

#11 28-10-06 12:55:26

posh
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Registered: 21-01-06
Posts: 855

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

good info there luchell. 8-)

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#12 28-10-06 13:41:20

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

I would agree with marconi above entirely other qualifications are more important than a grade six.The above qualifications mean much more.
Also his point about the SE's ability to asses fleet, when they probably have zero experience.
I know of no one who has yet achieved a grade six on fleet and mines coming up soon!


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
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ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
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#13 28-10-06 15:07:38

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

There definately needs to be some control over whos teaching. A further qualification similiar to the Adi Part 3. I'm sure this is where Ordit would cover these aspects.

Not sure about grade 6 but perhaps we should need to hold a licence for at least 3 years, the same you need one before becoming an Adi.

Theres always going to be a problem with grades. Perhaps you need a grade 5 before starting the course. Then you would need CT on demand.

The whole trainer training needs a good shake up, its where the DSA should be concentrating their efforts first before they worry about CPD for Adis.


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#14 28-10-06 17:54:28

Evan
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Interesting topic considering it was started in a test centre.

I watched a local trainer a year ago (grade 6) talking to one of the SE's about a PDI who had failed part 3 very polite and receptive to the SE's remarks about the particular PST and why the PDI had failed.

A couple of months later the same trainer had a pupil out for test the same time as me. I turned and said to him that I hoped my pupil would do well as he/she (can't remember whether they were M or F) would do well because they were nervous.

His reply: "I couldn't give a fcuk, I've been doing the job so long, I couldn't care less,'' then went onto say ''don't you think it's sad I feel like that.'' Yes I did and yes I do, and what's more this person is training others to be instructors. Grade 6 he may be for knowledge, I marked him unclassified for attitude.

That said I know of other trainers who are brilliant. John the trainer I used is an absolute genius not just at instructor training but with pupils as well, and his attitude is faultless.

So grades? maybe to a point, but I like a good and genuine attitude makes all the difference. Ev

#15 29-10-06 08:45:10

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
Website

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Thinking about it my trainer all those years ago was a 5 and every one you ask seems to have been trained by him rond here and all speak very highly of him.


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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#16 29-10-06 11:58:18

MrBassMan
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From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

What if a grade 6 trainer got a grade 4 or 5 on his next check test - should he lose his job because of one SE's opinion on a short assessment?

To implement something like this an appeal and recheck procedure would be needed as happens with a grade 3 or less ADI.


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#17 30-10-06 10:57:35

geebee
Verified Member
Registered: 06-08-06
Posts: 286

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

hi all
the problem is who trains the trainers
i am a grade 5 fleet reg and have been teaching  for 8 years
75% of my work is  learners and 25% is fleet
i have been trying to get into the training side for a few months now but finding it difficult
i don't think you should be able to train instructors until you have been teaching for at least 5 years with a good pass rate
we have people here in Edinburgh who have been teach for less than a year and they are advertising them self's as trainers
as of the grade may be you should be a 6 but at least a 5
i am in the same boat as Marconi as my check test is a fleet check test which i think is daft i think we should have 2 check tests one for fleet and one for learners i would welcome that
the other problem is they are two many different styles of training
they should be one national training school where the Adi trainers are employed by the government

regards  geebee

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#18 30-10-06 18:35:11

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Some excellent points in the last 2 posts especially in geebees last paragraph


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
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ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
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#19 30-10-06 21:56:43

Karenadi
Guest

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Trained by the government: well that'd be a solution: and maybe the dsa could be responsible for instructor training too: in a similar way to training of examiners: that way it'd be uniform and people are unlikely to get ripped off by people claiming to be trainers, when they have little idea really.  Teaching people to drive is one thing: that's what we are trained and qualified to do: teaching someone to teach is another ball game altogether.

#20 30-10-06 22:09:27

Evan
Guest

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Well if the trainers are going to teach someone to teach, the first thing they need to have is the integrity to tell someone you will never make it. This is a blunt statement I know, but I have seen, I have heard, and I have experienced those people on a fools errand.
Yes it's true, when I was training there were folk there, one guy in particular who couldn't speak a full sentence in English, (I think he was from Morocco or similar), he had the one credential that is all important to get into this game, a nice fat cheque in his hand.

The guy struggled, he was not going to make it, and yet some unscrupulous person was happy to take the money and lead him up the garden path. Maybe he was foolish as well.

A lot of the disappointment in the training could be dispelled, if the people who interview prospective ADI's for courses. had the necessary interviewing. and personality analysis credentials themselves.

I personally, would welcome anything that standardizes the way people are trained, make things black and white, tell people the pros and cons, stop the false hopes and promises, and then maybe you would see the pass rates for part 3 tests improving.

The reason would be simple, you would have the right candidates being trained by the correctly qualified trainers. It takes more than a trainer to make an ADI you have to have the right qualities as an individual for the trainer to work with, it's a two way agreement. Ev


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#21 31-10-06 17:17:53

pj
Verified Member
From: surrey
Registered: 27-02-05
Posts: 1,794

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

hi all
the problem is who trains the trainers

we have people here in Edinburgh who have been teach for less than a year and they are advertising them self's as trainers

I can remember 3 months after passing TIC wrote to me offering the chance to apply to be a trainer yikes, needless to say the letter went in the bin as I knew I was no way qualified to teach anyone to be an instructor. But makes you think who does reply to these letters neutral


PJ Dip DI

if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

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#22 31-10-06 20:05:27

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Let me set a scene

You see an ad in a paper promising earnings of £30k per year with no qualifications required and a guaranteed job including a car. You could be earning in eight weeks time.

One small catch theres things to sign and you need to pay £3000.00 after your 'job interview'

You dont bother to ask what if? or anything about the possibility of failure or who will train you or bother to contact anyone else who have dealt with this company.

if something sounds too good to be true -it is THATS LIFE!


Please please please anyone reading this WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!

Poor poor quality trainers and the companies they work for will continue to fleece you till the cows come home.iF YOU LET THEM

DONT SIGN ANYTHING/DONT PAY ANYTHING UP FRONT/ASK ABOUT YOUR TRAINERS CREDENTIALS/CONTACT SEVERAL TRAINEES CURRENT AND PRESENT/the list goes on and on DONT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#23 31-10-06 20:25:10

Evan
Guest

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Yes totally agree with Hector's post, do you homework and find out who's who, what's what and get the best for yourself. More then that, be sure you want to do the job first, it really isn't all driving around with a big smile on your face earning £30,000 a year within weeks.

The training is hard work, YOU have to be prepared to learn, learn and learn more. You have to be prepared to write lesson plans out re-vamp them scrap them write them again. Then after all that change your lessons to suit the individual needs of each pupil, that takes time to learn, and the experience comes the longer you are in the job.

The trainers, (and there are some very good ones about) can only help you to achieve your goal if you help yourself. £3,000, £4,000 won't buy your dream, you make that happen yourself with the help of a b l o o d y good trainer, it's a new career you are paying for so make sure you get the best training your money can buy. Above all though make sure you are ready to work. Ev

#24 09-11-06 13:14:58

keith williams
Verified Member
From: Bangor, Northern Ireland
Registered: 28-08-06
Posts: 458

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

I've been qualified sine May 2005 and as yet have only had my educational so no grade.

Because there's only a few of us working for the AA in northern ireland we all completed the trainer's course with them. I learnt a hell of a lot from the course, including the fact I was only taught PSTs during my prt3 training. Still managed to scrape through the prt3 though  roll. I feel like a much better instructor now and relish the thought of my check test because I'm aiming for a 6 (might fall short of that but that's still a respectable 5).

Before the training I would never have considered training PDIs, now I feel more confident about it but don't feel I've yet developed myself professionally enough.

The grade isn't bothering me so much but obviously I want a higher one anyway. I do feel the adult education certificate, cardington grade and the dip di will make the better trainer though. These are things I want to achieve but unfortunately I don't have the time or finances to do. (Newborn baby's taking them all up at the minute)

When I was looking for a trainer I didn't know enough about the industry to look for a certain grade, I went on their experience and how I got on with them. Sites like this will help educate people though, I would've done things a lot differently had I came across this board then.

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#25 09-11-06 18:57:44

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
Website

Re: Should all trainers be a grade 6

Have I got this correct Kieth, You are not long qualified no check test grade and the AA have put you through the AA instructor training course?

I would be interested to know who did your training as well, pM me if you prefer.


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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