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#1 26-11-04 22:08:35

Graham
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Advanced tests. Which one??

I wish to teach advanced skills, in addition to beginners courses, when I start my own school in the summer 2005. However, I've been advised that before I can advertise 'Advanced Courses' I have to obtain the various 'pieces of paper' from DIA, IAM, RoSPA etc.  I can understand the thinking behind that. I don't really want to take them all, but I will if I have to.
    Obviously, if I do obtain them, I will know the syllabus and what's required for pupils to pass the respective tests, but are they really that different? I know the standards are, but that's not really my point.
    I have read most of the posts regarding the lines of thought over the differing standards and I don't wish to open all that up again!! Neither do I wish to hear more about who should be 'teaching'  these skills.
    I need to know what practical difference there is for me, as an ADI,  to decide which to go for. I intend to go for the Cardington early next year. 
    To sum up, what test(s) should I submit myself to, in order to legitamately advertise myself as a person who can teach 'Advanced Driving' Techniques?
    Sorry if this seems a bit lengthy,but I'm finding it difficult to get an objective view on this.

26-11-04 22:08:35

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Re: Advanced tests. Which one??



#2 26-11-04 22:12:16

Anonymous
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Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

cardington and diamond are the ones in my opinion if its a adi doing the advanced driving because its based on dsa which is the way we teach


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#3 26-11-04 22:29:18

jgarbutt
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From: Driving Instructor in Horsham,
Registered: 26-04-04
Posts: 380
Website

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

Graham,

You don't NEED any further qualification to teach advanced driving - you've already passed an advanced driving test (Part 2) and you're qualified to teach.

However, you can't really advertise yourself as capable of teaching to any particular test standard (eg Rospa, IAM etc) until you've passed the test. But if you just want to teach advanced driving their's nothing to stop you.


Jason Garbutt
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#4 27-11-04 00:17:14

Stephen7738
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From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

Graham,
              As you have probably read on the other posts as to the difference's between the two standard's of driving,as i have said you need to gain experience in the particular area that you wish to teach. You will undoubtedly spend most of your time teaching learner's to drive so you will drive to the standard that you feel is required by the DSA hence the phrase stick to what you are good at,as in my opinion will be near impossible to maintain the standard in both field's of driving,as most of an ADI's time like any other Instructor is spent in the passenger seat,so to teach Advanced to a good level you have to teach Roadcraft the way it was meant to be taught, I would say to you that the best Advanced driving qualification you could go for would be Rospa as this is more structured and you are continually proving you are worth the standard you hold with the requalification programme they have. I know that there will be people on this sight who would disagree with me but I would not tell an ADI that they are not teaching there learners to the required standard as I have not got any experience in pre driver training I would say that I am  more experienced in the field of Advanced driving and that is only due to the training that I have had ,and the experience gained from this field of driving. Hope this makes sense to you.
               Stephen

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#5 27-11-04 13:39:15

TDC
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Registered: 30-04-04
Posts: 1,948

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

So even though we are advanced drivers by passing part 2 we still have to pass extra tests to teach to IAM ROSPA etc 'standards'
So how come we can 'teach' theory and HPT when that particular test hasnt been passed by many adis????
stinks of double standards to me


Im so good its unbelievable

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#6 27-11-04 19:05:10

GreenLight
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From: West Devon / East Cornwall
Registered: 26-02-04
Posts: 227
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Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

Hi Graham

I think it will depend on what sort of advanced training you intend to offer and, perhaps more importantly who you see as your target customers.

I took my IAM test back in 1971, screwed the badge to the grille and it has remained there ever since. I went for RoSPA in 1994, on the advice of my ADI trainer and, as you are aware, have had to resit every three years since. As part of my own CPD I took the RoSPA Diploma in 1999 and am now on the Fleet Register.

I don't know a lot about Cardington or the DIA special test, but I am three fifths through the Dip DI so I suppose it will raise its head next year!

I am now working mainly in the fleet sector and find the clients appreciate the Roadcraft/RoSPA/IAM approach. I just wonder if the Cardington style of fault free DSA type of driving would be as acceptable to them?

Let us know what you decide.

Larry

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#7 28-11-04 18:16:11

Stephen7738
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From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

TDC,
          You teach these skill area's to learner driver's who want to pass the DSA test,which is basic skills to drive to reach the next level you have to if you wish take further test's to prove you are competent in the next role you wish to gain.
        Stephen

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#8 28-11-04 22:58:20

jgarbutt
Verified Member
From: Driving Instructor in Horsham,
Registered: 26-04-04
Posts: 380
Website

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

We all seem to be getting a little confused here  :?

What do we mean by 'advanced driving'? This means different things to different people - some would see it as DSA ADI Part 2 standard, some as IAM, some as ROSPA, or Cardington etc. And all would be valid answers as they are different styles of driving.

The fact is that as an ADI you are qualified and legally able to teach ''advanced driving". However, if you wish to advertise as teaching advanced driving to a particular standard, eg. Rospa, IAM etc, then you really need to have passed the relevant tests. I'm quite certain that any of these organisations would take a dim view of any ADI promoting advanced driving to these standards if they have not passed the test themselves.

So, if you wish to teach "advanced driving" in general then you do not need any further qualification.

As for Stephen's assertion that ADI's who mainly teach learners are incapable of teaching any advanced driving - I find that a little insulting. We have all achieved a much-higher standard of driving by passing Part 2, and I imagine that most of us drive to this higher standard whenever we are driving ourselves. In other words, we practice it regularly. I would accept that most ADI's are not up to Police Class 1 standard, but this brings us back to the defintion of "Advanced Driving".


Jason Garbutt
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#9 28-11-04 23:27:42

crr003
Guest

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

jgarbutt wrote:

We all seem to be getting a little confused here  :?
So, if you wish to teach "advanced driving" in general then you do not need any further qualification.

I really don't want to be argumentative here, but isn't passing Part 2 the same as passing a DSA L Test with fewer faults than a "learner"? 
If so, I believe learners regularly pass with less than six minor faults - does that make them "advanced"?

Not to say ADIs can't/shouldn't teach "advanced driving", but I just feel there should be something more to it than that.

Roger


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#10 28-11-04 23:55:07

jgarbutt
Verified Member
From: Driving Instructor in Horsham,
Registered: 26-04-04
Posts: 380
Website

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

crr003 wrote:

I really don't want to be argumentative here, but isn't passing Part 2 the same as passing a DSA L Test with fewer faults than a "learner"? 
If so, I believe learners regularly pass with less than six minor faults - does that make them "advanced"?

Not to say ADIs can't/shouldn't teach "advanced driving", but I just feel there should be something more to it than that.

Roger

Roger, if I can quote from the DSA ADI 14 document, Road to becoming an Approved Driving Instructor, in the section 'The test of driving ability (Part Two)':

"This is not a slightly more difficult "L' test. It is an advanced driving test and a very high standard of competence is required. You must show that you have a thorough knowledge of the principles of good driving and road safety and that you can apply them. In particular you must satisfy the examiner on all or any of the following subjects:

Expert handling of the controls

Use of correct road procedure

Anticipation of the actions of other road users and the taking of appropriate action

Sound judgement of distance, speed and timing

Consideration for the convenience and safety of other road users.

The routes used for the test will include roads which may carry heavy and/or fast moving traffic, for example motorways or fast dual carriageways. The routes will cover a range of road and traffic conditions, including urban and rural conditions."

There is a lot more detail in the document, but to answer your question briefly a learner who passes with less than 6 minor faults has not attained anywhere near the same standard.


Jason Garbutt
DSA Approved Driving Instructor
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[color=blue]      Driving lessons throughout Sussex
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#11 29-11-04 00:35:43

Lynne
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From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

And it lasts an hour AND we have to do ALL the manoeuvres including right reverse...

Lynne

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#12 29-11-04 00:48:23

drivetime
Verified Member
From: North Kent
Registered: 01-03-04
Posts: 216
Website

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

Ok i dont want to upset the boat here or blow my own trumpet.
1. I have passed pt2  lol
2,. I have passed the DIAmond special test, both of which are to DSA standard.
Both these tests are well above the " Normal standard" for a driver. So are advanced.
3. I have also passed the IAM test and hold the RoADA gold . Both as we know are to a different style of driving. ie Roadcraft.
If you wish to work in the fleet market IAM or ROSPA is the way to go.
DSA standard in ALL tests is different to roadcraft.
I would expect people who have passed pt2, to be able to take and pass the DIAmond Advanced test, and with more training the Special test.
ROSPA and IAM test would need more work because of the different system, and i believe anybody who wants to go for it would learn a lot more than just the limit or vanishing point, and position in bends.
After being an ADI, try the other tests, some say IAM and RoADA is like rushing around as if you were late for an appointment. i just say " Its another way of looking at driving.

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#13 29-11-04 00:55:43

crr003
Guest

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

jgarbutt wrote:
crr003 wrote:

I really don't want to be argumentative here, but isn't passing Part 2 the same as passing a DSA L Test with fewer faults than a "learner"? 
If so, I believe learners regularly pass with less than six minor faults - does that make them "advanced"?

Not to say ADIs can't/shouldn't teach "advanced driving", but I just feel there should be something more to it than that.

Roger

Roger, if I can quote from the DSA ADI 14 document, Road to becoming an Approved Driving Instructor, in the section 'The test of driving ability (Part Two)':

.

Fair enough - I haven't even passed Part 1 yet.......

Based on what I know about IAM/RoADA,  "their" approach to advanced driving is "more " than this.  Maybe Lee has a valid point about what should constitute Advanced driving...

Roger


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#14 29-11-04 01:07:24

crr003
Guest

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

Lynne wrote:

And it lasts an hour AND we have to do ALL the manoeuvres including right reverse...

Lynne

Come on - right reverse is the easiest?


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#15 29-11-04 07:35:33

MrBassMan
Verified Member
From: Ceredigion, West Wales
Registered: 10-05-04
Posts: 669
Website

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

crr003 wrote:
Lynne wrote:

And it lasts an hour AND we have to do ALL the manoeuvres including right reverse...

Lynne

Come on - right reverse is the easiest?

My part 2 route included a motorway - not many learners on there!


Learn 2 Pass
Driving lessons in and around Ceredigion in West Wales  http://www.L2P.co.uk

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#16 29-11-04 15:22:24

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

My reply was my personal opinion and was not meant to upset or insult any individual's , my point is as i said on another subject I have taken and passed the driving part for an examiner many years ago,and I did not find it hard certainly not to the standard of an Advanced level,as described by Mr.Bassman the quote from the book is as it says a good level of experienced driving based on the basic DSA syllabus and it is not Advanced in the context of Roadcraft. I gave a good relatively fault free higher than average DSA drive along with all the other criteria that went with it ie clean licence,driving for over three years etc,and as far as i am aware nothing has changed over the years apart from the new names they put on it.
                                                                     Stephen

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#17 29-11-04 21:16:56

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Advanced tests. Which one??

crr003 wrote:
Lynne wrote:

And it lasts an hour AND we have to do ALL the manoeuvres including right reverse...

Lynne

Come on - right reverse is the easiest?

OK lets try again I just wrote this out and lost the thing!    :x   What did I say ..

Firstly Roger what I was getting at is this:  Obviously over an hour there is more chance of faults.  (Mr. Bassman.. I didn't mention the motorway driving as it was mentioned earlier up the thread.)

Right reverse may be easy but again, what I'm trying to get over is that the examiner is looking for a far more professional drive than that required on 'L' test.  As experienced drivers we may deal with hazards and situations differently and the examiner will expect to see that.  A Learner may well deal with them safely but not in the most professional manner.  The examiner is certainly not forgiving as he may be on 'L' test. 

Hope you get the gist of this as I really can't be typing everything out again.   :cry:

Cheers

Lynne

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