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#1 11-11-04 22:03:02

Anonymous
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advanced driving

should advanced driving be taught by adis or observers?

11-11-04 22:03:02

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Re: advanced driving



#2 11-11-04 22:24:39

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: advanced driving

Depends what you mean by advanced driving.

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#3 12-11-04 11:02:51

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: advanced driving

In my opinion you are only as good at the job you do through your training and experience,you gain experience on a day to day basis using the driving skills to fit the circumstance's. So if 6 out of 7 day's you teach DSA,i would argue that you will be a lot better in this area,as i have said before you adapt the roll in which you are teaching therefore drive in that roll in order to maintain the practise what you preach mentallity,if that makes sense,so my point is stick to what you do best, as you can't mix the two rolls and give the same standard of tuition and advice in both rolls,as your experience is not as good,due to the time spent,and if that you have not got the experience,then you won't have the driving experience in that roll either,so i will let you read between the lines for the answer,as I do not want to upset ADI's or Observers.
                               Stephen

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#4 12-11-04 15:32:22

adi
Verified Member
From: shropshire
Registered: 28-02-04
Posts: 1,231
Website

Re: advanced driving

Having read your post Stephen7738 i have actually found in the past that i started to drive more and more like a learner (a good one at test standard before any of you have a poke!!)! Like you say doing the same day in day out from morning till night can affect the train of thought! :shock:  lol  :shock:  lol  :shock:  lol  :shock:  lol

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#5 12-11-04 15:42:22

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: advanced driving

lee wrote:

should advanced driving be taught by Adi's or observers?

Lee I have told you before that OBSERVERS DO NOT TEACH we offer guidance,we are NOT Adi's so therefore it would be misleading if we said we teach.

Sorry but I felt I had to say that again, I don't mean to offend you so please don't take any offence,I just want to set the record straight wink


Gizmotime

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#6 12-11-04 18:28:11

Doug
Verified Member
From: Gloucestershire
Registered: 02-05-04
Posts: 958
Website

Re: advanced driving

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#7 12-11-04 19:04:41

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Lee I have told you before that OBSERVERS DO NOT TEACH we offer guidance,we are NOT Adi's so therefore it would be misleading if we said we teach.

If someone is learning something they didn't already know through your  instructions,  you are teaching.    They are learning a new skill. 

As individual observers do not receive any payment or reward then it is within the law.

But you do TEACH people new driving skills.

#8 12-11-04 20:47:54

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: advanced driving

Mixing the roles is only a problem if you can't mix the roles!!

Most of what so called 'advanced'  trainers teach is only what learners should be taught.

All this claptrap about all the so-called differences is mostly that - claptrap - and is perpetuated by people who have little or no idea what 'advanced' driving is all about.

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#9 12-11-04 21:03:47

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: advanced driving

If I say we Teach Advanced driving I get my head chewed off by Adi's,so if I use the correct termininology that the IAM tell we must use,I still get my head chewed off by Adi's. Well I certainly won't in future.

I'm sorry I opened my mouth now,well I won't be in futre.

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#10 12-11-04 21:41:44

dth-adi
Verified Member
Registered: 19-09-04
Posts: 1,402

Re: advanced driving

Gizmotime - Just stick to your guns!! And argue your corner. I am an ADI. I am a Senior Observer with the IAM. I am a RoSPA Gold etc etc etc.(See my website)
I know what I am talking about.

I bring to my learners what I can bring to improve their perception and safety as long as it doesn't mean they are doing things that will be frowned upon by the DSA for their tests and that is mainly about positioning - I cannot think of much else at the moment

If ADIs want to bury their head in the sand and pretend it is only the DSA that knows what is safe, that is their problem. We who know better, will provide a much broader level of teaching and the pupil will perhaps have a much wider picture as a result.

But it is all down to the individual - whether the teacher or the pupil.

PS The IAM contains a number of good hearted people whose interest is improving safety and many of those groups have done far more in helping experienced drivers to do that than ADIs could ever do simply because, by it's nature, it is not so expensive. That may be a problem to an ADI and I can understand why, but there is nothing that can be done about it. The IAM sit and offer advice on the basis that they have no control over the vehicle and do not 'instruct' the driver.

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#11 12-11-04 23:53:10

Badger
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Giz - dont take things to heart so much.

Say your piece and dont worry about what comes back.  If you think you are right then go for it.

It doesnt matter what you say someone will disagree with it another person will support it and yet another will abuse you for it.

Whatever happens it is better than being ignored !

Your input is valued  -  keep at it.

Badger

#12 12-11-04 23:59:12

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: advanced driving

Badger I darn't say what I'm thinking at this very moment I'd get banned :x

I just love it when some people who haven't got a clue about Advanced Driving start to tell me I'm wrong, I can stand constructive criticism and I can stand my own with the best of them. so watch this space. As they say Don't get mad get even smile

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#13 13-11-04 00:08:12

Badger
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Driving is driving.

Advanced driving is merely skilled driving by experienced drivers and could be called the DSA,  Cardington, IAM,  RoSPA or the  Diamond Way.

The most important aspect of it IMHO is Defensive Driving.  This is something that we can very easily teach to learners to equip them beyond the test and it embraces almost everything that these organisations promote.

It is not rocket science and it none of it is the unique preserve of any particular group.

As DTH says trying to establish "differences" is the hype generated by these organisations, excluding the DSA, to try and gain some sort of precedence over each other. Any differences in philosophy are minor.

Having said that,  all of them should be applauded  for their contribution to raising the standards of driving in a way that the DSA utterly fails to achieve or even attempt.

The DSAs only contribution to this effort is through Pass Plus and look what a damp squib that is at the moment.

Badger

#14 13-11-04 07:53:47

DAVE-ADI
Guest

Re: advanced driving

I can't believe anyone could get so upset about a statement of fact. 
Has a post been  deleted because I can't see where anyone has been abused in this thread?
Lee seems to get stick no matter what  he posts.

If someone wants to learn advanced driving techniques they either get guidance from an 'observer' by using IAM,  or TAUGHT by using an ADI.
Crazy.

#15 13-11-04 09:14:23

Badger
Guest

Re: advanced driving

I think the excitement is generated by the idea that teaching and guidance are the same thing.

The dictionary definitions dont help particularly,  except in that they do not say that  they are the same thing.

The borderline is crossed when an observer teaches the driver how to perform a new skill such as the rather dubious method of cornering for advantage.

Otherwise it is merely guiding an existing skill taught earlier.

Cutting the crap so to speak, and they are obviously the same thing in my view but because of the law everyone is adamant that there is a clear-cut difference.

I dont believe that we need to fall out with anyone over this.  Just let them get on with it.

No-one is going to pay an ADI £120 for 3 two hour lessons in their own car  when they can get much more "observed" training(guidance) for about £78 including the cost of the Advanced Test and this is where the bone of contention lies.

Badger

#16 13-11-04 12:21:44

Anonymous
Guest

Re: advanced driving

you get what you pay for thats why advanced driving is cheap because they use observers not experince adis.

#17 13-11-04 12:43:59

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,596

Re: advanced driving

Ouch!
Take cover lee, with a statement like that, I hope you have your tin hat on!!!! lol

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#18 13-11-04 12:48:51

Anonymous
Guest

Re: advanced driving

im thick skinned dont worry about me bring it on.


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#19 13-11-04 13:46:24

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: advanced driving

lee wrote:

you get what you pay for thats why advanced driving is cheap because they use observers not experince adis.

Ignorance is bliss Lee,untill you have done then don't mock it.

lee wrote:

im thick skinned dont worry about me bring it on.

I wouldn't waste my energy arguing with you about it. That's your opinion so be it.

Just one other thing your wrong on pal. Adi's DO Oberserve so your in effect calling one of your OWN.

There really should be no need at all for any of this. Were all out for the same thing at the end of the day,and that's to try and make our roads Safer,Lee if you don't like that then TOUGH that's your problem.
Now if you wish to carry on with this discussion then you can PM me. same as anyone else can.

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#20 13-11-04 14:12:33

Badger
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Giz - keep it impersonal.

Lee is entitled to his view as you are yours.

Try not to get so het up about someone disagreeing with you.

It would have been better if you had countered his statement by pointing out that Advanced Driving can be cheaper because the observing is done by volunteers some of whom are actually ADIs.

Badger

#21 13-11-04 16:03:02

Silvercar
Verified Member
Registered: 19-08-04
Posts: 327

Re: advanced driving

Here's my two penny worth,

ADI's bread and butter is instructing novices from near scratch to "test standard".
This is not the same as teaching them just to pass the test. The driving test standard these day's is not far short of what I did for my part 2 with exception to M/Ways and some complex intersections. I regard the test standard to be more advanced than joe blow on the road and if all the drivers who had passed their test drove to test standard the our roads would be a hell of a lot safer.

I have taught a few drivers to pass from auto to manual who had driven for a good number of years.  I have also taught a few extended test where experienced drivers of many years had "lost" their licence. These experienced drivers where "easier" to teach from the point of view you give them the required knowledge and then observer to see if they grasp what your getting at. Where as learners need much more of you skills to control them and the lesson  and even when test standard are more liable to do something serious "out of the blue" that takes the experience of being an ADI not to get caught.

The IAM observer is far less likely to put up with the unpradictability of what  teaching L-Drivers throws at you. Something only ADI  training prepare's you for. Only a fool would do what we do volintarily. lol

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#22 13-11-04 17:12:30

jimbo
Guest

Re: advanced driving

I see no great difference in teaching to driving test or for an advanced test.  I do not agree with all of the IAMs ideas but have great respect for their aims.
     Many people use them who would not come to an ADI - well that's fine - we are all promoting road safety.  The IAM observer who took me out prior to IAM test was a bit daunted by the fact that i was an ADI but i said just go for it - and he pulled me up on a couple of things -( b*****d )!!   No seriously , i didnt agree with everything he said but didn't push it because he was following the IAM line and i had gone to them.

#23 13-11-04 19:57:07

Anonymous
Guest

Re: advanced driving

how can telling some one to go on the wrong side of the road to get a better view of the road. thats what you call road safety

#24 13-11-04 20:01:14

jimbo
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Yes i have grave doubts about this 'moving out to see thing',  i'd rather keep my speed sensible and retain a position on my side of the road and usually well over

#25 13-11-04 20:03:43

Anonymous
Guest

Re: advanced driving

we teach advanced driving to diamond standard thats is based to dsa standard and i call that safe driving for life.not some system based on police training

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