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#26 01-01-15 11:05:36

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,656

Re: D1 101

To drive a bus after September 2013 you must CARRY a driver qualification card.

Failure to carry the card can result in an on the spot fine for the driver, the vehicle being seized and the operator of the vehicle being prosecuted.

To obtain your driver qualification card you must complete 35 hours of training with a JAUPT approved centre. The grace period has now ended.


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01-01-15 11:05:36

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Re: D1 101



#27 02-01-15 08:58:43

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

DQC needed for commercial PCV driving

Those on exemptions such as section 19 are not deemed commercial


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#28 02-01-15 12:43:33

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

Thanks for all the advice, my employer is still not 100% sure but I am getting somewhere.

Thanks
Big J

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#29 02-01-15 17:25:05

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: D1 101

Only my opinion, but keep an open mind:

There seems to be a view that to drive a minibus and be paid you must either do so under Hire or Reward and must hold full D1,
OR
operate under a S.19 permit and drive on a D1 (101).


What about those that fall outside of that?

This is from the gov.uk site regarding exemptions from Driver CPC:

"Driver C drives a minibus under a D1 (101 - Not for Hire or Reward) driving licence, transporting farm labourers around a farm on public roads between fields. He needs Driver CPC as it’s not non-commercial carriage of passengers for personal use.
However, Driver C has ‘acquired rights’ so he won’t need to pass the Driver CPC initial qualification. He will need to complete 35 hours of periodic training by 10 September 2013 and every 5 years thereafter.

Would you agree that Driver C is Merlin?

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#30 02-01-15 20:09:18

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

Merlin is driver C but his acquired rights have expired


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LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#31 02-01-15 20:55:44

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: D1 101

I'm not so sure an acquired right can expire, but I stand to be corrected. What expired was the date in which he had to have received 35hrs of CPC - 10.9.13.
His experience of driving a minibus is counted as the same as taking the Driver CPC initial qualification. Therefore his only failing is that he should have done his 35 hrs by 10.9.13. and be in possession of a DQC.

He hasn't, and so is driving illegally and will commit the offences outlined by reddragonbus (as will all other drivers)

A poser. Let's say a man has just been employed by Merlin's company. He's come off the unemployment register. He has a D1(101) but, because he's been unemployed, no DQC. I think we're in agreement that he doesn't need a full D1 so Initial CPC is out. What does he do?

It's again only my opinion, but if he were to do an intensive 5 days of periodic CPC he would have a DQC within a fortnight.

Last edited by trunkmonkey (02-01-15 21:09:19)

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#32 03-01-15 07:51:19

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

D1 101 is not a PCV

To drive a commercial PCV D1 the person would need to pass either D1 or D DVSA test and if they already have D1 101 then they have the choice of doing either initial or periodic DCPC - its a recent thing introduced by the EU


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#33 03-01-15 08:28:51

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

From what I can see I need to do 35 hours periodic training before driving at work again  https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driv … ne-reached

in this about a third of the way down.  My line manager now understands part of the CPC aspect of this but HR still insist that as we do not operate the minibuses for hire or reward the CPC is not needed. Am I right in my thinking I am paid to drive the minibus, no CPC exemptions apply to me so I must comply with CPC even though the 'passengers' do not contribute in any way to the journey?

Big J

Last edited by Merlin (03-01-15 09:12:48)

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#34 03-01-15 09:38:32

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

You could do the 35 hours periodic dcpc but if you only have pre 1997 categories then you will get a DQC covering LGV only - not PCV because you do not have a PCV category

D1 101 is not a PCV

C1 is LGV


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#35 03-01-15 09:45:34

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

(ROG) wrote:

You could do the 35 hours periodic dcpc but if you only have pre 1997 categories then you will get a DQC covering LGV only - not PCV because you do not have a PCV category

D1 101 is not a PCV

C1 is LGV

Does it make any difference if my driving is carrying non fare paying passengers? who do not contribute in any way to the journey, they are on the minibus because the Magistrate or Judge has sentenced them to do some unpaid work.

Big J

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#36 03-01-15 10:23:47

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

This is where it gets interesting

The job being done with the minibus is not a fare paying operation but is part of a commercial operation

The way I see this is thus ......

The minibus does not need to be under PCV so as its not then D1 101 ok and dcpc not needed as its not a commercial PCV operation


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#37 03-01-15 10:56:58

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

One scenario which might help is this one ...

Guests pay to stay in a hotel which is 5 miles from the nearest town
Free minibus to town is listed in the facilities

Driver of that minibus is a waiter with only a D1 101 licence

The waiter gets paid normal hourly rate when driving the minibus

Waiter does not need full D1 PCV or DCPC because it is not a commercial fare paying passenger PCV operation

Had the guests contract included a pre paid minibus to town that that would be different

Last edited by (ROG) (03-01-15 11:01:32)


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#38 03-01-15 10:58:24

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

Confused even more now !!

Saw this from the DVSA on a website  http://www.accessibleltd.co.uk/?p=1774   where it says teachers with D1 101 should do 35 hours if they drive the school minibus, is that a commercial PCV operation?

Big J

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#39 03-01-15 11:07:27

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

Merlin wrote:

Confused even more now !!

Saw this from the DVSA on a website  http://www.accessibleltd.co.uk/?p=1774   where it says teachers with D1 101 should do 35 hours if they drive the school minibus, is that a commercial PCV operation?

Big J

STUPID DVSA - the system will not allow dcpc PCV hours to be uploaded on a DQC if the driver does not have a PCV D1 or higher

I would have fun with the DVSA if only I could read that letter in the link!


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#40 03-01-15 11:10:59

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

Hi if you zoom in, use the tools icon top right hand side of the toolbar wheel type icon, click on it then zoom.

Big J

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#41 03-01-15 11:20:00

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

I am going to contact accessible ltd on Monday to find out who at the DVSA they contacted with that impossibility


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LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#42 03-01-15 11:51:30

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

So initially the view was I needed to do some of the CPC but now the view is I don't and I can carry on regardless?

Big J

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#43 03-01-15 14:07:06

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

Merlin wrote:

So initially the view was I needed to do some of the CPC but now the view is I don't and I can carry on regardless?

Big J

If you needed dcpc then you would also need to pass a DVSA PCV test to get the dcpc hours accredited for PCV

You cannot be legally required to have PCV dcpc DQC for driving a minibus with a D1 101 - that's the bit I am going to have fun with the DVSA about in their letter on that other site


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Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#44 03-01-15 15:05:51

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

So ONE final question about my current job:

I am employed by a Community Rehabilitation Company (Government Contract from Ministry of Justice) ex Probation Service.

I am employed, I receive a salary, to supervise offenders carrying out unpaid work, a sentence from Court. I drive a minibus (9 - 16 seats) to take the offenders and tools/equipment to work projects in the area. The offenders obviously do not contribute anything for the journey. I may only drive between 1 -2 hours a day but I drive every day I work. I have a pre 1997 licence with D1E code 101. My company have around 20 minibuses and supervisors doing the same job as me in the same position licence wise.

Unpaid work includes working at schools, churches or local County Council carrying out gardening, decorating and tidying up in general. The company usually levy a charge (£75) for each days work carried out, that is for the whole group 9+ people.

Does my current driving licence cover me to do this job?

Do I need to do some/all of the DCPC? up till now none of the drivers have done any. (OK that's TWO questions.)

Thank you all so far for your responses to this, I don't want to drive illegally!

Big J

Last edited by Merlin (03-01-15 17:04:28)

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#45 03-01-15 16:16:35

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: D1 101

Rog,
Firstly, i agree with you regarding the DVSA letter to Accessible ltd. I've never heard that one before.

Now can you explain this comment from August 2013? :
"The DSA ‘acquired rights’ page of the guide now clearly states that licence holders with the (101) restriction DO NOT have to undertake the initial training, but can complete periodic training instead.This change to the rules appears to have been implemented without too much notification to the industry and stakeholders, in particular to training firms who may have been incorrectly advising category D and D1 students that they must complete initial Driver CPC training when they now clearly don’t need to.It has been confirmed the change to the restricted D and D1 (101 code) came into force on the 8th August (2013)".

It's a quote from a Driver CPC training site.

It's a mess isn't it?

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#46 03-01-15 17:20:21

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

trunkmonkey wrote:

Rog,
Firstly, i agree with you regarding the DVSA letter to Accessible ltd. I've never heard that one before.

Now can you explain this comment from August 2013? :
"The DSA ‘acquired rights’ page of the guide now clearly states that licence holders with the (101) restriction DO NOT have to undertake the initial training, but can complete periodic training instead.This change to the rules appears to have been implemented without too much notification to the industry and stakeholders, in particular to training firms who may have been incorrectly advising category D and D1 students that they must complete initial Driver CPC training when they now clearly don’t need to.It has been confirmed the change to the restricted D and D1 (101 code) came into force on the 8th August (2013)".

It's a quote from a Driver CPC training site.

It's a mess isn't it?

Strangely, I am in contact with 2 Welsh PCV training schools on this issue because they had not heard of it either but it is fact


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#47 03-01-15 17:22:19

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

Merlin wrote:

So ONE final question about my current job:

I am employed by a Community Rehabilitation Company (Government Contract from Ministry of Justice) ex Probation Service.

I am employed, I receive a salary, to supervise offenders carrying out unpaid work, a sentence from Court. I drive a minibus (9 - 16 seats) to take the offenders and tools/equipment to work projects in the area. The offenders obviously do not contribute anything for the journey. I may only drive between 1 -2 hours a day but I drive every day I work. I have a pre 1997 licence with D1E code 101. My company have around 20 minibuses and supervisors doing the same job as me in the same position licence wise.

Unpaid work includes working at schools, churches or local County Council carrying out gardening, decorating and tidying up in general. The company usually levy a charge (£75) for each days work carried out, that is for the whole group 9+ people.

Does my current driving licence cover me to do this job?

Do I need to do some/all of the DCPC? up till now none of the drivers have done any. (OK that's TWO questions.)

Thank you all so far for your responses to this, I don't want to drive illegally!

Big J

Does my current driving licence cover me to do this job? = YES
Do I need to do some/all of the DCPC? = NO


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#48 03-01-15 18:23:06

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,302

Re: D1 101

Hi
It would appear that your individual situation has now been clarified, but your employer is going to have to consider what they are going to have to do in the future, because anybody being employed to do a similar job as you who was born after 1979 will not have the D1 Restriction 101 on their licence.

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#49 04-01-15 19:36:44

Merlin
Member
Registered: 21-12-14
Posts: 26

Re: D1 101

trunkmonkey wrote:

Only my opinion, but keep an open mind:

There seems to be a view that to drive a minibus and be paid you must either do so under Hire or Reward and must hold full D1,
OR
operate under a S.19 permit and drive on a D1 (101).


What about those that fall outside of that?

This is from the gov.uk site regarding exemptions from Driver CPC:

"Driver C drives a minibus under a D1 (101 - Not for Hire or Reward) driving licence, transporting farm labourers around a farm on public roads between fields. He needs Driver CPC as it’s not non-commercial carriage of passengers for personal use.
However, Driver C has ‘acquired rights’ so he won’t need to pass the Driver CPC initial qualification. He will need to complete 35 hours of periodic training by 10 September 2013 and every 5 years thereafter.

Would you agree that Driver C is Merlin?

Please excuse me if I am mistaken, this has only been of interest to me in the last 2 weeks! In the example above Driver C needs to do some of the CPC. His circumstances seem identical to me

1. D1 (101)
2. Non fare paying passengers
3. My passengers, non fare paying, earn my employer a small amount of money each day.
4. I am paid to drive.
5. Driver C needs to complete 35 hours training. Why don't I need to?

As I say this is all new to me but I cannot see any difference in the 2 examples.  It seems to be mentioned on a lot of websites that with the D1 (101) it only covers you to drive for social, domestic or pleasure.

Thanks

Big J

Quote ; 'Do not believe everything you read on the internet.'  Abraham Lincoln.

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#50 04-01-15 20:01:47

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: D1 101

Driver C cannot do driver cpc because the system does not recognise the D1 101 as a PCV so any dcpc hours done will not upload

DELETED inappropriate comment

Last edited by (ROG) (06-01-15 07:42:58)


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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