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#1 02-08-14 17:15:06

lenzcrafter
Member
From: bristol
Registered: 18-06-07
Posts: 12
Website

How do you.....

GET YOUR PUPILS TO ANTICIPATE!!!!???

I have just had 2 of my pupils take tests this week and both fail. Basically one failed for not seeing that the road he was in was clearly a one way st, and the second one failed for not anticipating a truck on a dual carriageway was clearly pulling into a lay by to park and ended up slowing and virtually stopping behind it!!

Both of these pupils have had in excess of 40-50 hours and one of them has their own car!!

Can anyone suggest a good lesson plan to get students anticipating and looking at road signs etc?

Any tricks you might me able to share would be much appreciated.

ps have tried all the obvious things like independent driving etc

Matt

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02-08-14 17:15:06

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Re: How do you.....



#2 02-08-14 17:24:41

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: How do you.....

You could stick an iPad or smartphone on the dashboard and they could google information.
I am not being sarcastic to you, but really these individuals are of an age where they have gone through school, had 50 hours of instruction and frankly haven't listened to a word because everything in life is sorted for them.
That may seem harsh, but look at the average age of pilots in the 2nd World War (which was before my time), and compare to the youth of today, its embarrassing!

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#3 02-08-14 17:52:25

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 649

Re: How do you.....

My opinion...for what it's worth... sad

The first thing I would do is establish exactly what the problem is.  Is it that they are not seeing the issue?  Is it that they are seeing it, but misinterpreting the effect it may have on them?  Is it that they are seeing it and they are interpreting it correctly, but don't know what to do about it?  Until you understand which bit they are tripping up over, you cannot hope to fix the problem.

Once that is established, you can then identify the correct remedial action.

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#4 02-08-14 19:30:03

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: How do you.....

Have you tried  commentary driving?

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#5 02-08-14 20:36:11

DonT
Verified Member
Registered: 08-10-11
Posts: 141

Re: How do you.....

kaf wrote:

Have you tried  commentary driving?


A tool which is much underused. 
You will then be able to spot the problem and rectify it, because they will tell you or not what the problem is.

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#6 02-08-14 22:59:19

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: How do you.....

kaf wrote:

Have you tried  commentary driving?

Agreed, commentary is a great way to deal with this.

I tend to build them up to a commentary.

I start by driving for a few minutes and just get them to say every hazard they see. Becomes very repetitive but gets the brain working. Then get them to drive and do the same.

Once I know they are seeing everything get them to tell you why it is a hazard / what might happen.

Once this is done add the final part - what are you going to do about it.

It does make them very aware of what they have been missing and how much they do have to look for and react to.

It's not for everybody, some can't multitask that well, but for the majority it's a great learning tool.

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#7 02-08-14 23:23:47

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: How do you.....

Anticipating isn't easy to teach, but like Kaf, DonT & Chris I've found commentary driving to be effective in most cases (I had to do 15 minutes full-on commentary driving in Darwin City when qualifying for my instructor's endorsement- I foamed at the mouth but that's another story).

I start off by demonstrating a commentary as we drive down a suburban road - what I see ahead behind & to the sides, possible risks, developing risks, actual risks ...
On one lesson it went quite well, were were approaching a group of young boys standing on the footpath facing the road, one was bouncing an oval football.
I pointed out that they were facing the road and likely to cross without considering traffic, or the boy with the ball might let it bounce across the road and spontaneously chase after it.
The latter happened, and when I used my dual brake the student learned a valuable lesson.

After a while I hand over to them and as DonT says: "You will then be able to spot the problem and rectify it, because they will tell you or not what the problem is.".
Granted, the there are those who simply cannot handle a commentary:
(1) If English is not their home language, they can have trouble mentally translating fast enough to give an effective verbal commentary.
(2) Some are naturally reticent, especially Indigenous Australian kids when they are required to converse with white people.
A commentary drive is always done when Occupational Therapists & I assess disabled drivers (especially important if the disability is cognitive in nature).

Hi Evan I agree with your comments on the youngsters, too much is done for them.
It's hard weaning them off the idea that they can always depend on the instructor to think for them; and some, in the early stages at least, seem to have the idea that the car will think for them too.
They certainly don't read - I always give handouts to new students with the full knowledge that most will politely fold them up and ignore them thereafter (it doesn't stop me giving them though, as some WILL read them).
And they don't listen ...
E.g. classroom training: I've just handed out the test papers and get their attention to give an important announcement (I see rows of sweet innocent young faces with shiny eager eyes and glittering halos - the lights are on but is anybody home?).
I explain that they MUST write their name & the date on the answer sheet, yet some hand their paper in with one or both missing.
I say: "This is today's date" and write it on the board in big letters, yet later on some will ask me what the date is.

BTW Evan, about your avatar, how on earth did you get a picture of a customer waiting to be served at Darwin's Motor Vehicle Registry?

Last edited by Zipper (02-08-14 23:28:00)


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
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#8 03-08-14 06:31:04

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: How do you.....

Hi Zipper, Hahaha.

Coming to the topic of young people, there was a saying when I worked as a nurse that a patient can walk into hospital and be carried out! Now by this they meant not carried out in a coffin, but carried out because the nurses did so much for them they turned then into a dependent rather than independent person.

I don't actually feel the problems young people have are due to a contrived behaviour, I feel that due to over protective parenting, also because of the way teaching has to be carried out now that natural progression, development and the ability to problem solve and accept responsibility and consider accountability has been taken away from them.
Now it may seem that opinion is just coming from what I see in the car (not I might add with all pupils, but certainly with quite a high percentage), however I have a few friends who are teachers. Now one in particular has highlighted the same sort of problems, she has told me of her feelings about having to teach pupils how to give the answers on an exam paper to pass a test, also the silly use of past test papers.
If we consider the deficits in theoretical knowledge in the case if driving (learning the answers rather than understanding the rationale), we can see why pupils struggle. I don't think for one minute the young people of today are intelligence, in fact far from it, what I do feel is that because of the inability of adults to let them make mistakes and fail at anything then learn from that mistake, they do in fact lose a very important lesson for life.
I talk a lot in the car to pupils about consequence of action, risk taking, accountability for the safety of their passengers and also other road users.
I think in many cases all they want to do is just pass, the same as they do with their A level's, however its important for them to realise the responsibility the full licence brings with it.

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#9 03-08-14 10:05:58

jackm
Verified Member
From: Southend
Registered: 15-09-06
Posts: 73

Re: How do you.....

First step is to make sure they are looking in the right place. To do this I mark the screen with a dry wipe pen at about driver's nose level, and explain that they need to be looking "above the line" unless travelling at very low speed. A brief discussion of stopping distances at this stage helps.

Next, point out the hazard in the distance, explain why it is a hazard, and suggest an appropriate course of action. This works best on a dual carriageway or similar, where the hazard can be seen way ahead and time is available for discussion.

Continue in this vein for a while, gradually removing the suggested course of action, and then the explanation, finishing up by just asking if they see the hazard. Then just ask what they can see. Eventually stop talking altogether, apart from the odd reminder to look ahead when you see their eyes dropping.

I find this works almost every time, if you keep at it for long enough.

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#10 03-08-14 12:10:21

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: How do you.....

jackm wrote:

First step is to make sure they are looking in the right place. To do this I mark the screen with a dry wipe pen at about driver's nose level, and explain that they need to be looking "above the line" unless travelling at very low speed.

I understand where you are coming from, but personally, I prefer for them to keep their eyes moving both side to side and near to far.  The secret to hazard spotting is constant scanning, any time the eyes stay still, certain parts of the view ahead will fall onto non functioning areas of the retina, resulting in the driver 'not seeing' something that is clearly there.

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilo … -cyclists/

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#11 03-08-14 22:06:42

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: How do you.....

kaf wrote:

... I prefer for them to keep their eyes moving both side to side and near to far.  The secret to hazard spotting is constant scanning, any time the eyes stay still, certain parts of the view ahead will fall onto non functioning areas of the retina, resulting in the driver 'not seeing' something that is clearly there.http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilo … -cyclists/

The "keep the eyes high" is a good idea, but I too would be reluctant to encourage them to look ahead at the expense of scanning, especially when approaching & passing through intersections.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#12 05-08-14 07:42:48

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: How do you.....

I remember reading the term driving with the eyes on full beam not dipped beam.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#13 05-08-14 08:51:44

jackm
Verified Member
From: Southend
Registered: 15-09-06
Posts: 73

Re: How do you.....

Not for one minute suggesting that they should stare unblinking into the distance, just that the refrain from minutely examining the tennis court sized area of tarmac in front of the car. This is where I find they want to look when they first start out.

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#14 05-08-14 09:39:14

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,695
Website

Re: How do you.....

Hi jackm, on re-reading my last post it seems that I unintentionally criticised your technique, I didn't mean it that way, my apologies for not wording it well.
I too sometimes have trouble getting first-time learners to look ahead, I think I might adopt your nose-level-line in these cases (knowing me I'll accidentally use a permanent marker like I once did on a brand new expensive projection screen belong to someone else).
Later on into their training I'll remind them of the line on the windscreen - easier to remember, I think, than using industry buzz-words such as "projecting", "planning ahead", "forward observation" etc.

Last edited by Zipper (07-08-14 11:18:29)


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#15 07-08-14 18:38:58

jackm
Verified Member
From: Southend
Registered: 15-09-06
Posts: 73

Re: How do you.....

No problem Zipper.

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#16 11-08-14 13:48:14

ger
Verified Member
From: south wales
Registered: 12-03-09
Posts: 321
Website

Re: How do you.....

with regard to commentary driving i have got a boy who just grunts hello how are you  grunt  what did you do last weekend  grunt  today we are going to do turn in the road grunt  i have tryed grunting back i just get a grunt back


ger

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#17 11-08-14 16:01:20

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: How do you.....

I taught a lad this year with Selective Mutism. Wouldn't speak but communicated with nods and a smile.
Eventually over the months he would communicate with me but only in a whisper.

He passed at the 2nd attempt with 4 D/F. It was one of the most challenging and yet enjoyable sessions I've had teaching.

Last edited by AUTAX (11-08-14 16:02:16)


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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