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#1 27-05-14 08:49:16

ipsdriver
Member
Registered: 21-04-14
Posts: 6

B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

I have my trailer test in a few weeks. I have bough a new box trailer from indespention that has an un laden weight of 600kg and is braked twin axle. It is to be towed with a land rover discovery which is unladen and 2255 and has a max tow weight braked of 3500. I plan to load this with 600kg of bagged cement as this is the only thing I can find with a printed weight.

I am a driving instructor for car and won't have a problem with the general driving. Just really need to practise the reversing exercises.


My questions are...

1. I have about 10 ton of "large" bag compost as I live on a farm and we use it in the nursery. Can I use this although it doesn't have a weight on. I will put more than enough on and can take some bathroom scales if they want to see proof.

2. As the trailer weighs 600 and I'll load with 600 (1200 in total). The weight of the discovery is 2255. So we are at 3455. I passed my normal test after 1997 but before 2013 so technically as it is under 3500 I could tow this combination myself to the test? And also myself out and about to practise?


All being well I'll pass and then it'll be onto my 3 year wait before I can instruct. Or if I get a defender with a lesser vehicle weight and the same towing weight I could instruct someone who got their licence before 2013 straight away as technically they could also tow the combination???


Any help would be gratefully received!

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27-05-14 08:49:16

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Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!




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#2 27-05-14 09:16:36

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

Sorry I can't answer your questions, but this made me smile,  you must have some very big bathroom scales   lol

I have about 10 ton of "large" bag compost as I live on a farm and we use it in the nursery. Can I use this although it doesn't have a weight on. I will put more than enough on and can take some bathroom scales if they want to see proof.

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#3 27-05-14 09:29:46

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

For towing under B licence the GVW of the vehicle added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500

If it does total more than 3500 then its under B+E rules

Licences go on plated GVW MAM MTPLM weights not actual weights

You would be better getting a 1 tonne (1000 litre) IBC filling it with water and securing it in the trailer but if using 600 of sand bags other then it must have weights on

Does the towing vehicle have the extra wing mirrors for the examiner?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#4 27-05-14 09:31:37

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

Does any of this help....



For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kgs (law)

EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kgs
Towing capacity 1700 kgs
GTW 3750 kgs

Trailer
Unladen 600 kgs
MAM 2000 kgs

For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1100 kgs because 1100+600=1700 kgs which is the towing capacity.

For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kgs.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 850 kgs because 850+600=1450 kgs which is the trailer MAM.

Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer
https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-ru … t-vehicles

Well explained here

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#5 27-05-14 10:46:24

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

ipsdriver wrote:

All being well I'll pass and then it'll be onto my 3 year wait before I can instruct. Or if I get a defender with a lesser vehicle weight and the same towing weight I could instruct someone who got their licence before 2013 straight away as technically they could also tow the combination???

Before or after 2013 makes no difference because the law for ALL B licence drivers are the same no matter when they passed B

Those passing before 1997 got B+E and other categories but even their B is under the same laws as everyone else

You can teach for the B+E test using a B towing set up which can be used for the test

Something like a Skoda Octavia with a GVW of about 1900 and a towing capacity of 1500 towing a box trailer with a max MAM of 1600 which weighs 600 empty with a sandbag load of 600 is one idea

1900+1600=3500 which the max limit for B towing
600+600=1200 which is 300 under the max towing limit


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#6 03-12-14 18:54:25

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

Sorry to bring towing up again but this is doing my head in for some reason! Can someone please give me some simple answers to the following question.

1 Driving a towing vehicle plated at 3,050kgs towing a trailer plated at 750kgs. Total plated weight is 3800kgs.

The driver has a category B licence, not BE, issued between 1 Jan 97 and 19 Jan 13.

Is this a legal combination for this licence? My understanding was that the max plated weight of a combination being driven on a B licence is 3,500kgs.



I notice that on the Gov.UK web site it states that a licence held from 1 Jan 97 can, "drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM". This give a maximum plated weight of 4,250kgs.

It also states that a person holding the above can also, "tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combination weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is not more than 3,500kg". This means that the absolute maximum plated weight a driver can drive on this licence can vary depending upon the plated weight of the trailer.

For licences issued after 19 Jan 13  a driver can tow, "small trailers weighing no more than750kg" and also, "a trailer over 750kg as long as the combined weight of th etrailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg Maximun Authorised Mass (MAM)".

2 Is there any difference in what someone with a licence issued between 1 Jan 97 and 19 Jan 13, and someone with a licence issued after 19 Jan 13 can drive?

Thanks very much.

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#7 03-12-14 21:03:55

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

ratty wrote:

Sorry to bring towing up again but this is doing my head in for some reason! Can someone please give me some simple answers to the following question.

1 Driving a towing vehicle plated at 3,050kgs towing a trailer plated at 750kgs. Total plated weight is 3800kgs.

The driver has a category B licence, not BE, issued between 1 Jan 97 and 19 Jan 13.

Is this a legal combination for this licence? My understanding was that the max plated weight of a combination being driven on a B licence is 3,500kgs.



I notice that on the Gov.UK web site it states that a licence held from 1 Jan 97 can, "drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM". This give a maximum plated weight of 4,250kgs.

It also states that a person holding the above can also, "tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combination weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is not more than 3,500kg". This means that the absolute maximum plated weight a driver can drive on this licence can vary depending upon the plated weight of the trailer.

For licences issued after 19 Jan 13  a driver can tow, "small trailers weighing no more than750kg" and also, "a trailer over 750kg as long as the combined weight of th etrailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg Maximun Authorised Mass (MAM)".

2 Is there any difference in what someone with a licence issued between 1 Jan 97 and 19 Jan 13, and someone with a licence issued after 19 Jan 13 can drive?

Thanks very much.

ALL B licences come under exactly the same rules - there are no differences depending on when the test was passed
The DVLA leave old rules on the internet to confuse the public

The 3800 is legal in this case because the trailer is not plated at over 750 kg

The 3500 rule comes into force when the trailer is plated over 750 kg MAM

If the 3800 combo is being used for commercial use then it is likely to come under tacho regs


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#8 03-12-14 21:06:12

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

Thanks very much.

So as long as trailer is not plated at over 750kg a car licence covers up to and including 3,500kg towing vehicle with 750kg trailer, total 4,250kgs ?

Last edited by ratty (03-12-14 21:08:30)

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#9 03-12-14 21:15:24

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

ratty wrote:

So as long as trailer is not plated at over 750kg a car licence covers up to and including 3,500kg towing vehicle with 750kg trailer, total 4,250kgs ?

You got it - max GVW of towing vehicle 3500 for B licence and towing a trailer plated at no more than 750 kg is legal for towing on a B licence

If the trailer was 800 kg plated MAM then the max GVW for the towing vehicle would be 2700 kg for B towing


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#10 03-12-14 21:16:39

ratty
Member
Registered: 05-02-11
Posts: 466

Re: B + E Soon! Driving Instructor To The Test!

Thanks again.

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