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#1 12-11-13 22:51:00

Lewis Wright
Member
From: Derby, Derbyshire
Registered: 04-10-13
Posts: 6
Website

Tyre Safety

Hi Guys,

We have written a post on tyre safety on our blog. It has some good advice with regards to checking your tyres. Take a look on the link below.
Tyre Safety

Lewis

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12-11-13 22:51:00

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Re: Tyre Safety




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#2 13-11-13 06:41:14

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,653

Re: Tyre Safety

When these wear bars are level with the tread on the tyre you must replace it by law.

Are you sure about that? Have you measured the depth of a wear bar?


LGV PCV Instructor DVSA ADI Fleet

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#3 13-11-13 07:54:59

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Tyre Safety

Manufacturers must set the depth of the tread bar to the base of the groove at 1.6mm. It's not an area they mess about with. All of their technical blurb mentions it.

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#4 13-11-13 08:21:50

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: Tyre Safety

Good info, would have liked some info on the reduction of wet grip once tread is below 3mm.

More of a focus on the safety aspect than the legal one.

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#5 13-11-13 08:36:55

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Tyre Safety

kaf wrote:

Good info, would have liked some info on the reduction of wet grip once tread is below 3mm.

More of a focus on the safety aspect than the legal one.

http://www.tyresforlife.co.uk/www/tyres … ge_en.html

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#6 13-11-13 08:58:07

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: Tyre Safety

I keep a graph on my iPad showing how grip reduces with tread wear.

Most of my students are staggered that we stick with a 1.6 legal minimum.

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#7 13-11-13 09:06:37

Lewis Wright
Member
From: Derby, Derbyshire
Registered: 04-10-13
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Tyre Safety

Thanks for the feedback folks.

As trunkmonkey says UK law requires a car to have at least 1.6mm of tread across the central three quarters of the tyre and all around its circumference. So tyre manufacturers must ensure that this is the depth of the tread bar.

Thanks Kaf for the feedback on Tread Depth too, that's an interesting article you linked to. Does anyone know what the legal requirements are for tread depth elsewhere in the world for comparison?

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#8 13-11-13 09:08:06

Lewis Wright
Member
From: Derby, Derbyshire
Registered: 04-10-13
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Tyre Safety

Sorry trunkmonkey that was you that posted the link on td. Cheers.

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#9 13-11-13 17:28:25

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,653

Re: Tyre Safety

trunkmonkey wrote:

Manufacturers must set the depth of the tread bar to the base of the groove at 1.6mm. It's not an area they mess about with. All of their technical blurb mentions it.

Can you show me?


LGV PCV Instructor DVSA ADI Fleet

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#10 13-11-13 18:28:07

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Tyre Safety

reddragonbus wrote:
trunkmonkey wrote:

Manufacturers must set the depth of the tread bar to the base of the groove at 1.6mm. It's not an area they mess about with. All of their technical blurb mentions it.

Can you show me?


http://www.fulda.com/fulda_uk_en/test_a … yre_tread/
http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-s … tread-wear
http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyreinfo.html

If however, you feel you need to measure the depth of a tread bar to see if it's exactly 1.6mm, I'd be concerned.

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#11 13-11-13 18:45:00

reddragonbus
Verified Member
From: Edinburgh
Registered: 05-02-06
Posts: 1,653

Re: Tyre Safety

2mm


LGV PCV Instructor DVSA ADI Fleet

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#12 13-11-13 23:17:19

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Tyre Safety

Lewis Wright wrote:

Thanks for the feedback folks.

As trunkmonkey says UK law requires a car to have at least 1.6mm of tread across the central three quarters of the tyre and all around its circumference. So tyre manufacturers must ensure that this is the depth of the tread bar.

Thanks Kaf for the feedback on Tread Depth too, that's an interesting article you linked to. Does anyone know what the legal requirements are for tread depth elsewhere in the world for comparison?

Google is your friend:
http://www.tyremen.co.uk/help-and-advic … -tyre-laws
And plenty more sites like that.

Germans are pretty keen on 3mm as a best practice in Summer even though the legal limit is 1.6mm as here.
"Keen" = German insurance companies sniffing at a claim involving a wet skid with less than 3mm tread.
So much so, my Audi has TWI's at 1.6 with 3mm steps in the tread as well that are marked by a water droplet icon on the tyre wall.  (Where do you think we get loads of part-worn tyres from?)

This link to YouTube with Vicky BH from 5th Gear makes it very clear why the "1.6mm across the ..." SMTM answer should come with a health warning:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLMRD_QsBDw


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#13 14-11-13 09:31:36

graham121150
Verified Member
From: Long Eaton
Registered: 29-08-11
Posts: 648
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#14 14-11-13 12:15:26

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Tyre Safety

graham121150 wrote:

Funny how F1 use bold tyres

And change to grooved/treaded tyres the second it starts raining.


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#15 14-11-13 17:13:47

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Tyre Safety

It's a question I ask on almost every CBT, and when doing show & tell stuff: "why do we want tread on our tyres?"  The answer always comes back "grip".  I follow up with "How does it give us grip?", and usually there's a long silence!  'Everyone' knows it gives us grip but only about 5% of people know it's to displace water. Even most experienced car drivers don't seem to know.  Some suggest it's the 'knobbly bits' but I explain that's only for an off-road bike.
We then explore race cars and bikes and why they don't have any tread - as much rubber on the road as possible for maximum traction.
"So, how does cutting grooves in our tyres gives us grip - surely we've just made them less grippy!"  Blank looks.
"What do race cars do when it rains?"
etc
It's an 'interesting' subject I find, and good to 'educate' folk about why there's a legal min and a bit before is better.  cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#16 15-11-13 12:33:17

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Tyre Safety

And added to that;
Go to your local tyre dealer and he'll give you a worn tyre and a part worn tyre. Cut a cross section off each that will show all the relevant details on the side wall and then describe the make up of the tyre and how it acts and reacts with the road.
Add to that 'tyre grip trade off' explaining the limited amount of grip available to be shared between accelerating,braking and steering.
That leads onto cornering, the effects on the tyres and the consequences of removing steering grip because of acceleration or braking.
It's a great subject particularly when you say that the contact between you and the road is no bigger than 4 CD cases,you need to get it right.

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#17 15-11-13 16:21:09

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Tyre Safety

These indicators provide the easiest way to assess the remaining tread depth of your tyre. The minimum depth required is 1.6mm. The indicators rise to 2mm. Therefore, if any part of the tread block area is running flush with the indicators, your tyre has worn to its lowest level. Easy!

http://www.hometyre.co.uk/tyre-informat … our-tyres/
http://www.kenwaytyres.co.uk/tyre-safety/

1.6 or 2mm

Last edited by daz6215 (15-11-13 16:23:48)

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#18 15-11-13 18:05:43

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: Tyre Safety

It would be nice to see more focus on tyre safety.

Ins co could push it more..

Even many ADIs are driving with less than 2mm as contracts will not change tyres if still legal.

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#19 15-11-13 20:14:07

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Tyre Safety

kaf wrote:

It would be nice to see more focus on tyre safety.

Ins co could push it more..

Even many ADIs are driving with less than 2mm as contracts will not change tyres if still legal.

And Police forces

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#20 15-11-13 20:19:21

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: Tyre Safety

Very true

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#21 15-11-13 22:00:58

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Tyre Safety

daz6215 wrote:
kaf wrote:

It would be nice to see more focus on tyre safety.

Ins co could push it more..

Even many ADIs are driving with less than 2mm as contracts will not change tyres if still legal.

And Police forces

That's a brave statement to make, which I hope you will support with evidence.

I was a police driving instructor as you know and our tyres were changed at 3mm for Standard cars and 4mm for Advanced cars.
I've just confirmed by text from the current Head of the Driving School that this is still the case.

What is your force policy?

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#22 16-11-13 06:01:44

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: Tyre Safety

In mine it was always legal limit.

No idea if it still is.

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#23 16-11-13 09:24:02

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Tyre Safety

Legal limit is fine (with correctly inflated tyres) if choices about speed and space on a wet road are informed choices.
It surprises me though that this would mean (apparently) for Police cars that "I can't go quite as fast on this shout as I'd like 'cos it's wet and I've got just 1.7 mm - 2 mm tread".

I know I keep banging on about this but ...
What bugs me as an ADI is that the DSA don't appear to consider (by SMTM) that they have a role in allowing informed choices - there continues to be a massive gap in the SMTM "script" for both ADI's (I knew nothing about wet performance of tyres and tread until well into my CPD - 2+ years after qualifying) and therefore pupils (who will end up running a car on a tight budget and delaying expenditure on tyres, I guess).

And it's a gap in knowledge that isn't filled by the pupils' parents either - I sit with them daily and a big majority of them have little grasp of the subject.  "Tread gives you grip", is their answer.  They're shaky on what is legal, have no means of measuring it, rely on a garage at servicing or MOT to let them know about impending illegality.
Still, their ignorance about "illegality vs safety" keeps me in work!

Last edited by ralge (16-11-13 09:34:51)


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#24 16-11-13 10:47:51

trunkmonkey
Member
Registered: 05-03-09
Posts: 747

Re: Tyre Safety

ralge wrote:

Legal limit is fine (with correctly inflated tyres) if choices about speed and space on a wet road are informed choices.
It surprises me though that this would mean (apparently) for Police cars that "I can't go quite as fast on this shout as I'd like 'cos it's wet and I've got just 1.7 mm - 2 mm tread".

And that's why I raised the question Ralge. A police vehicle is unique. Any Risk Assessment will have recommendations. Tyres are never compromised.

Driving at 140mph with less than 2mm of tread is Dangerous Driving territory.

The added benefit of changing at 4mm was that there was always someone who had a car that ran on the same size tyres and they got a full set of freebies smile

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#25 16-11-13 13:10:16

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Tyre Safety

trunkmonkey wrote:
daz6215 wrote:
kaf wrote:

It would be nice to see more focus on tyre safety.

Ins co could push it more..

Even many ADIs are driving with less than 2mm as contracts will not change tyres if still legal.

And Police forces

That's a brave statement to make, which I hope you will support with evidence.

I was a police driving instructor as you know and our tyres were changed at 3mm for Standard cars and 4mm for Advanced cars.
I've just confirmed by text from the current Head of the Driving School that this is still the case.

What is your force policy?

It's not brave it is a fact, 2mm is the policy at the moment for the fleet! Cant say I like it but it's all down to bean counters, It won't be long before the wheel falls off in my opinion, pardon the pun!

Last edited by daz6215 (16-11-13 13:10:42)

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