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#1 25-10-13 19:14:37

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

I have just read that from 1st January 2014, people who have automatic restrictions on C1/C/D1/D categories and all their +E variants will have these removed providing they have manual B but they will have to renew their licence in order for it to be amended. Will post a link as soon as I have more information.

Last edited by dog (25-10-13 19:14:58)

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25-10-13 19:14:37

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Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted



#2 26-10-13 08:56:13

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Been proposed but it needs a change in the law so I wonder how soon it will happen

No problem IMO because the principal of using a clutch is the same across all vehicles and there is no way all types can be covered on training


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#3 26-10-13 14:42:10

chevronjohn
Verified Member
From: North West
Registered: 15-08-10
Posts: 172

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

It is happening with effect Jan 2014 - DSA have given this as a firm date - doesn't mean it won't change again wink

John


DSA ADI ,DSA LGV Instructor, PCV Instructor, IAM, always willing to learn  smile
www.chevrontraining.co.uk
DSA Customer Test site

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#4 01-11-13 09:59:51

the director
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-06-09
Posts: 68
Website

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

The restriction is being lifted from 1/1/14.

This will NOT include B+E Category tests however and candidates taking that test will only be given a BE Auto licence if they use an Auto car for the test !!

You just couldn't make it up could you !!!???   

Someone from the DSA really needs to explain how it's ok for someone who has never operated a truck gearbox can legally drive one after 1/1/2014 yet someone with a manual B Lic cannot tow with a manual car if they pass BE in an auto.

Madness


B+E Trainer
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#5 01-11-13 12:15:28

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

the director wrote:

The restriction is being lifted from 1/1/14.

This will NOT include B+E Category tests however and candidates taking that test will only be given a BE Auto licence if they use an Auto car for the test !!

You just couldn't make it up could you !!!???   

Someone from the DSA really needs to explain how it's ok for someone who has never operated a truck gearbox can legally drive one after 1/1/2014 yet someone with a manual B Lic cannot tow with a manual car if they pass BE in an auto.

Madness

That does not make sense - think I will call them ........

It is as you stated and they are also saying that its silly

I think an email to my MP is the way to go to get this included as its up to the DfT to decide on this issue

I know its not up to the EU because NI has B+E manual given if done in auto and already got B manual


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#6 01-11-13 12:40:18

the director
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-06-09
Posts: 68
Website

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

My email was sent from Peter Murray - Corporate correspondence, customer operations ....

See below
Driving Standards Agency
PO Box 280
NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE
NE99 1FP
T    0300 200 1122
F    0300 200 1155
www.gov.uk/dsa
Chris Allen
chris.allen@go-driving-tuition.co.uk

29 October 2013

our ref: 1310/00795

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email of 15 October about the recent changes to vehicle entitlement regarding category C and D.

I appreciate your comments however the new changes will not include the B+E test.  Candidates will still have to pass their B+E test using a manual car to receive both manual and automatic entitlement.

Further information is available here on the GOV.UK website.

Yours faithfully


Peter Murray
Corporate Correspondence

Customer Operations
customer.services@dsa.gsi.gov.uk
For information about how to use our complaints procedure, please click here
                   

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Allen Office [mailto:chris.allen@go-driving-tuition.co.uk]
Sent: 15 October 2013 13:35
To: CSU
Subject: FAO Bob Harrington REF changes to lorry and bus test consultation response

Dear Sir,

Can you advise whether the proposed changes to allow auto vehicles on C and D cat tests will include the B+E test category vehicles ?

In my opinion the same arguments for using auto in the above categories are reflected with B+E.

1. The lack of manual vehicles capable of towing larger weights ( e.g landrover discoveries have been auto gearbox only for 3 years now)

2 the candidate has already displayed the ability to drive a manual vehicle by passing their B cat licence

I look forward to your response


Chris Allen

go!driving
Trailer Training

Sent from my IPad

Mob :- 07990 761177
Twitter :- @chris_go_drive

Main Office Contact Number
Tel 0203 6519452

www.go-driving-tuition.co.uk

Copyright Notice : The go! driving tuition name and logo is the copyright of Go Full Circle Ltd (t/as go! driving tuition) and may not be reproduced or published without prior permission.

Disclaimer - This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of (Go Full Circle Ltd) T/as go! driving tuition or any of its Franchisees. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify go! driving tuition by telephone on +44(0)203 6519452

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#7 16-12-13 20:57:19

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

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#8 17-12-13 08:27:28

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Our driver has a manual B licence

Driver then passes C and C+E both in auto and get manual B+E
OR
Driver passes auto B+E and get auto B+E

In the first scenario the B manual gives B+E manual but not in the second scenario and yet both the C+E and B+E tests are done on the same lines

B manual upgrades the massive C+E auto to manual
B manual will not upgrade the small B+E auto to manual
How daft is that?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#9 17-12-13 09:18:56

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Very. It's worth noting too that if you pass B+E you have it for life. If you jump straight in and do C and C+E you only have B+E as long as your medical is still valid.

I suppose it won't really matter in 10 years time when everything is automatic anyway.

Last edited by dog (17-12-13 09:19:32)

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#10 17-12-13 22:04:13

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Am I right in thinking that as of 1/1/14, you can pass B Auto, then take a test in C auto, be allowed to drive C manual, but not B Manual.

Maz

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#11 18-12-13 08:03:27

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

dog wrote:

Very. It's worth noting too that if you pass B+E you have it for life. If you jump straight in and do C and C+E you only have B+E as long as your medical is still valid.

Incorrect
B+E is not under any circumstances reliant on a valid medical so as long as the B is valid so will the B+E no matter how the B+E was obtained


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#12 18-12-13 08:07:12

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

MAZ wrote:

Am I right in thinking that as of 1/1/14, you can pass B Auto, then take a test in C auto, be allowed to drive C manual, but not B Manual.

Maz

No
You need a DSA test pass in manual to upgrade other categories in auto to manual

List all the possible B, C and D categories (nothing lower than B) and put the auto code next to all of them
Change any one of those categories to manual and it removes the auto only code from the lot


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#13 18-12-13 21:21:53

chevronjohn
Verified Member
From: North West
Registered: 15-08-10
Posts: 172

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

To be honest this is probably one of the most  roll  roll situations the DSA have implemented.
If they, or whoever, honestly believe that passing your driving test in a 5 speed " fiesta" means that most people will be able to drive a truck/coach with a split gearbox-having never driven one before- are really living in a dream world.

Every operator I have spoken to regarding this wouldn't employ a driver who has done this, not all trucks/ coaches are auto.

Only my opinion but this will make the test easier but getting a job harder

John


DSA ADI ,DSA LGV Instructor, PCV Instructor, IAM, always willing to learn  smile
www.chevrontraining.co.uk
DSA Customer Test site

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#14 19-12-13 10:46:58

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

chevronjohn wrote:

To be honest this is probably one of the most  roll  roll situations the DSA have implemented.
If they, or whoever, honestly believe that passing your driving test in a 5 speed " fiesta" means that most people will be able to drive a truck/coach with a split gearbox-having never driven one before- are really living in a dream world.

I and thousands of others managed ok when doing artic with a straight 5 or 6 speed box so what makes todays drivers any less capable than we were ?


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#15 19-12-13 16:05:06

chevronjohn
Verified Member
From: North West
Registered: 15-08-10
Posts: 172

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

(ROG) wrote:
chevronjohn wrote:

To be honest this is probably one of the most  roll  roll situations the DSA have implemented.
If they, or whoever, honestly believe that passing your driving test in a 5 speed " fiesta" means that most people will be able to drive a truck/coach with a split gearbox-having never driven one before- are really living in a dream world.

I and thousands of others managed ok when doing artic with a straight 5 or 6 speed box so what makes todays drivers any less capable than we were ?

What makes this situation different is simple Rog - you drove a "truck with a manual gearbox" not a corsa or a fiesta.
Put a driver who has never driven a manual truck at all into one and how long do you think the gearbox/clutch are going to last?

Also bear in ming Rog you probably,as I did, drove a small flat bed with no weight on - todays training vehicles are very different, bigger, heavier and with poorer visibility and therefore gear selection is very important.
I am basing my information on what Operators are telling me NOW - not what I did 25 years ago


DSA ADI ,DSA LGV Instructor, PCV Instructor, IAM, always willing to learn  smile
www.chevrontraining.co.uk
DSA Customer Test site

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#16 19-12-13 17:47:50

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Nobody is ever going to learn all the different types of gearbox when training so in the end it all comes down to learning them post test


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#17 04-04-14 15:31:39

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

DVSA announced on the 20th of March that the Motor Vehicles Driving Licences (Amendment) Regulations 2014 will come into force on 10 April 2014. From this date all new vocational PCV licence holders who pass their PCV test in an automatic vehicle will be issued with a manual CAT D licence rather than an automatic licence provided they have passed a manual test in another category of vehicle either CAT B or C.

These regulations will also apply to existing automatic licence holders and we are currently awaiting confirmation from DVLA as to the procedure to be followed for existing automatic PCV licence holders to enable them to receive an upgraded manual licence. Provided they already hold a manual licence in another vehicle category either CAT B or C. Further details will be issued to Members as soon as we receive them from DVLA.

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#18 08-04-14 15:07:31

loggie
Member
Registered: 08-04-14
Posts: 1

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Rather than start a new thread I thought it best to add my thoughts to this existing one.

As we are all aware now the legislation below comes into effect on 10th April.

Driving Standards Agency (DSA) Announcement.

Lorry, bus and coach drivers

From 10 April 2014, the main changes affecting lorry, bus and coach drivers will be: removing the need for 8-forward gear ratios for large test vehicles (category C, C+E) allowing people who take a lorry or bus test (category C, C+E, D, D+E) in an automatic vehicle, to get a manual entitlement for those vehicles if    they already have a manual entitlement for cars, lorries or buses, with or without trailers (category B, B+E, C, C+E, C1, C1+E, D, D+E, D1+E).

I have recently been informed that the following legislation has been in place for Cat C since 1997(ish) – If you passed your Cat C in an automatic transmission, then went on to pass your C+E in a manual, you would then be able to drive Cat C with a manual gearbox.

Is that not just the same as what is contained within the April 10th legislation but just a slightly different way of wording it?

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#19 08-04-14 15:47:16

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,299

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Hi
Surely the earlier legislation only applied within the C categories and subsequent manual tests, the newer changes mean for example that someone who passed in a manual car 20 yrs before passing an auto Cat C can now change their Cat Cs Auto only etc to Manual.

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#20 09-04-14 07:57:08

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

The legislation applies to all drivers no matter when they got their categories so a manual B with auto C or D can send licence to DVLA and get those autos changed to manual

I can see the retrospective bit being useful to those who passed D in auto and those in the fire service who passed C in auto

The really weird bit is the B+E ....
In NI you pass B manual then B+E auto you get B+E manual

Rest of the UK you pass B manual and B+E auto you get B+E auto and that will not change with the new EU directive legislation
The DSA stated that this is silly and are putting pressure on the Govt legislators to make a change in UK law

Pass Manual B then any auto +E test in any of the C or D categories and you get B+E manual with the same expiry date as B manual

As the training and tests for all +E categories is about the same then we can see why the DSA are pushing for the change to the B/B+E senario


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#21 09-04-14 18:11:18

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

Seems fruitless, in 10 years time everything will be automatic anyway. Look at the current generation of tow vehicles now - Land Rover, Range Rover etc have been automatic only for years.

Last edited by dog (09-04-14 18:11:32)

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#22 18-04-14 22:08:01

Dangarwe
Verified Member
Registered: 18-04-14
Posts: 4

Re: Auto restrictions on higher categories being lifted

I passed my automatic pcv on the 19th of March and got a licence with the the code 78 (automatic only) I then wrote to dvla asking about the new regulations coming out on the 10/04 and they replied to me saying that I can request the upgrade by letter. I have now done that and I'm waiting to receive a new licence with the manual category on it.
Here is a copy of their email below


Thank you for your email received on 9/4/14. Your email reference number is ......

In order to request the upgrade of your driving licence entitlements, please follow the below instructions:

•You will need to request the upgrade from DVLA by letter, quoting your full Driver number, full name and address.

•Send the letter to:

VOC DCS CASEWORK D6,
DVLA,
Swansea,
SA99 1ZZ.

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