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#51 28-08-13 19:16:26

sofasurfer
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 30-07-13
Posts: 310

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

If the examiner is not doing his job properly (and it sounds as if he is a bit of a rogue) providing evidence would do the public, the DSA and ADIs a great service. I have recorded tests and lessons and will continue to do so if I think it is necessary.

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28-08-13 19:16:26

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Re: Grounds for complaint after test?



#52 28-08-13 19:18:12

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi, the law as I understand it prohibits an individual from recording someone from an organisation (dsa), it is slightly more vague between individuals. I understand your opinion of that it is a test and he is meant to be a pupil but after five minutes discussing the merits of mirrors and set up he should have relented, regardless of his personal opinion. That is not my thoughts but the area manager, he insisted training would be provided to examiners to ensure this could not happen again. Hopefully this will prove to you that I had made a valid argument. I'm not prepared to go into further details as I run the risk of sounding a moan. The purpose of my original post was to see if anyone had experienced a similar circumstance and what the process was from here.

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#53 28-08-13 19:21:53

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Rustinho wrote:

My trainer spoke to area manager today and said he'd had a pupil with an issue with a test and gave brief details. Area manager, who  has a huge area said, don't tell me and named test centre and examiner!.

This really is becoming very confusing and going against everything the dsa should adhere to! There is not a chance an area manager would/should NAME an examiner to you or your trainer? Never heard of it happening before ever, so why your trainer would say such a thing is beyond me.

Rustinho wrote:

. I have spoken to the area manager myself today and if I can confirm that the examiner did admonish and adi the test will be stricken..

Again Rustino apologies, but an area manager would never give you such advice, even if the area manger did say this (and you may have misunderstood what was actually said) how do you intend to confirm this did happen, i said in another post, without any witnesses it can only be your word against the examiner and without proof i doubt very much the area manager  will believe a PDI (no offence) i feel your emotion with your result but please be very careful how far you take this. I truly believe as Sofasurfer has said, the examiner was in role at all times and was testing you, it is after all, a part 3 test.
Please take this as it is meant, advice, it is not being off with you smile

Last edited by brod (28-08-13 19:22:30)

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#54 28-08-13 19:25:52

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

I think you're missing the point, the third party was the ADI! Hence I have not imagined the situation. I thank you all for any and all comments. In any discussion all parties will fail to agree all the time. I know what was said and what wasn't. Why would a 'pupil' admonish and Adi in role?

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#55 28-08-13 19:52:54

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

From time time advise is given, from time to time it makes you wonder why  sad
That's me out of this thread neutral

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#56 28-08-13 19:58:37

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Not entirely sure what that means. Thanks to all who have given constructive advice. I realise this is an unusual situation at best. Many of you probably think, Christ get on with it you've got another go. I understand that. I'm no crusader, but what if that was your third go and no one had mentioned this examiner prior to you going?

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#57 28-08-13 20:20:21

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
Website

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi Rustinho
Certain posters on here seem to be getting a bit defensive and if you don't agree with them they throw their toys out of the pram!
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.
Your point about having an attempt wasted by an ex with a chip on his shoulder is absolutely fair and should not be tolerated.
Keep going with your efforts to get this rescinded.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#58 28-08-13 20:22:51

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Many thanks Peter. It is !!!!!!!! stressful i'll tell you!

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#59 28-08-13 20:56:11

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi Rustinho, like I said in a previous post it has happened to me and the outcome of your discussion sounds very similar to mine.

My particular examiner did have a reputation amongst the instructor trainers at BSM and he was interviewed over my complaint. I was called in for an interview and after I had gone through what happened on the first part of the part 3 I was told what the examiner had said and told that there was grounds to void the second attempt and give me another attempt for free. This I passed. The examiner I had for my fourth attempt was a well respected guy and a completely different personality. Technically speaking I passed on my fourth attempt but morally I always consider it was my second. smile

Incidently, the senior Instructor Trainer just said forget it, you'll pass next (3rd) time. He wasn't interested in pursuing a complaint. At least your trainer seems to be fighting your corner.

If you want any further information on my case please don't hesitate to Pm me as I'd rather not repeat it on a public forum.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#60 28-08-13 21:40:56

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

brod wrote:

From time time advise is given, from time to time it makes you wonder why  sad
That's me out of this thread neutral

Probably a good thing, you are becoming a bit of a pain Brod. Rustinho has already given very detailed, clear, concise and articulate transcript of the events, and it looks like he has done the same with the area manager and could likely get a positive outcome which could save him a "pt3 life".

Get over it!!!!

Maz.

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#61 28-08-13 23:14:01

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Rustinho now has my full story. There are one or two bad apples out there and the DSA Area Managers aren't deaf or blind. They will act.

Good luck on your search Rustinho.  smile


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#62 05-09-13 07:39:19

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hello rustino curiosity has got the better of me!!
Did you get anywhere with your complaint??

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#63 06-09-13 06:36:23

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

What a shame we cannot get any update wink

Last edited by brod (06-09-13 06:38:37)

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#64 06-09-13 10:19:21

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
Website

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi Rustino

I hope I can help, I am not going to be distracted by what the examiner should or should not have done, firstly what was the PST? (you may have said but there is so much negativity in the posts I have not read them all apologies if you had)

The examiner will only make faults relevant to the pre-set-test. Hence IF you were doing TIR then you can effectively forget mirrors etc. They will not make faults here as there is nowhere for them to put it on your adi26 sheet (Failure sheet)

The problem is, the examiners see so much where an instructor concentrates on what is not relevant for that test and misses the actual faults. Then the instructor gets bogged down and feels like the lesson is running away. I am guessing you got low scores for Analysis and REmedy with following low scores in the levels of instruction and control of the lesson.

Now lets focus on the positive, what can you do to sort this? Is your trainer positive and looking at what YOU can do to sort this.

Please do not get sucked in with the 'examiner should have done this and that etc' this will do nothing but create a negative emotion and not help you pass and after all that hard work that would be a shame...........yes?

Remember negative emotion causes a change in your brain akin to the flight a fight emotion. Your brain knows no difference. Imagine trying to out run a hungry tiger baring his teeth and trying to eat you and at the same time an examiner is running alongside you asking you questions and getting you to identify, analyse and remedy his faults.......could you cope.......

Sort the basic the rest will follow

Hope it helps


here if you need me


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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#65 06-09-13 17:05:16

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Many thanks Dave. I appreciate positive help. Yes mirrors weren't relevant to that pst, which I now know. I was taught to look for every error and felt that the mirrors was one. From what I have learnt as it was not relevant to the test he should have just checked and moved on. I haven't put my complaint in writing as I haven't been able to find the adi and didn't want to make a formal complaint with just my word versus an examiner. The time limit is six months and a few people have advised me against it now so am not sure what path to take.

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#66 06-09-13 18:53:55

marconi1
Verified Member
From: Dawlish
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 693
Website

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

You are already on the right path

Keep positive and look forward to your new badge when you qualify.

Hows the training going?


Dave Foster MA, Dip.DI
F.inst.D.E.R, M.Inst.MTD, M.A.I.R.O, A.I.F.L,
Foster the Joy of Driving
http://dte-elite.co.uk  http://drivertrainingeducation.co.uk

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#67 06-09-13 19:24:27

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Training was going great. Having a couple of weeks off. Start back next week. Wanted to de frazzle! I really get on with my instructor which helps. Going to work even harder than before, thought I worked hard then though!

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#68 07-09-13 06:12:58

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Thank you for taking the time to give an update Rustinho. smile
It is pleasing to hear that you are no longer going to pursue your complaint, as i attempted to advise in earlier posts it would have been pointless and probably, would have put more pressure on you for the next attempt, (in my opinion) it was incorrect for you to have been told on here to take it further without having ALL the facts to hand.
It is very easy to feel demoralised with the result after all the hard work you and your trainer put into the preparation and your feelings can often run away with you and imagine things that happened, when in reality they probably didnt happen as you may have thought.
After a fail it is best to give yourself a week or so to assess what happened and what feedback you received then, if you still feel in the same frame of mind then go ahead with complaining.
The advice i attempted to give you was for the same reasons you have explained in your post #65 and as i said you would never have got anywhere with your complaint.
I do wish some people would read the contents of posts rather than taking a biased approach to the poster thinking the poster is just trying to cause trouble when it is just not the case.
Can i wish you every success in with your next attempt. Hopefully you will be back on here telling us you are an ADI. smile

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#69 07-09-13 16:59:55

John O'Leary
Member
Registered: 07-09-13
Posts: 3

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Please allow me to make the following points:

1:When you undertake any kind of driving test you are a paying customer of the DSA. It is the examiners duty to provide you with an appropriate level of customer service. If the situation is exactly as you described it, then the examiner clearly fell short in this requirement. It seems clear to me that the examiner was out of role when he refused to use the mirrors in the way you had advised.

2: You were right to give advise on correct observations before moving off for 2 reasons, Firstly, as part of the pre-amble to the test the examiner will have asked you to 'look for any other faults in my driving'. Secondly, if you are doing the turn in the road exercise, the examiner may want to simulate faults relevant to this exercise on the way to site eg poor clutch control or poor observations before moving off.

3: With regard to the examiner admonishing an ADI during your part 3 test. This is unprofessional and should not have happened. As someone said in a previous post, the examiner could have simply carried on in role and brought the issue to the attention of the Test Centre Manager or the ADI Sector Manager.

As an ex SEADI myself I have every faith in the examiners to conduct tests fairly and properly. As a DSA manager I had to deal with complaints about ADI tests. I'm happy to say that they were few and far between and more often than not were unjustified. However, I can say with certainty that complaints are looked into impartially and if justified another (free) attempt at the test may be given.

If you are confident that the service you received on Part 3 test was less than should be expected then I would encourage you to go ahead with your complaint. After all, there's not much point in the DSA having a complaints procedure if customers are afraid to use it.

All the best

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#70 07-09-13 17:07:55

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi, thanks for that John. I was just thinking it may affect me 'down the line'. I honestly don't think that the test was conducted properly but then have to admit I failed it! Would I have if it was conducted properly, who knows? According to adi1 the examiner should make the situation as realistic as possible and display the experience and ability of the person they are portraying, would someone after 2-3 driving lessons be so forceful of opinion that mirror checks were unnecessary? I doubt it. As for pulling over, well that's just mad! I appreciate that part 3 complaints are very rare and that is one of the reasons I haven't as yet persued it as it may look like four grapes and I understand that completely.

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#71 07-09-13 18:05:16

John O'Leary
Member
Registered: 07-09-13
Posts: 3

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

The most common method of observations prior to moving off is referred to as the '6 point check'. This requires checking all mirrors and the blind spots over each shoulder. Whether this is the examiners preferred method is of little consequence, it is a widely accepted method. Part 3 examiners are expected to have an open approach to these issues and not to be over prescriptive. As an examiner it makes little sense to become bogged down on this point and has a responsibility to manage the test and move things forward. To do this the examiner might have to bite his lip and accept the instruction. For your part you might have to consider if you were being over pedantic.

You said it yourself in your last post that you honestly didn't believe the test was conducted properly. The fact that you failed the test has no bearing on this and you certainly should not be dissuaded in you claim for fear of being affected further down the line.

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#72 07-09-13 18:10:49

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

I think the fact the same thing with regards to mirrors happened on both tests with sane examiner would indicate his opinion. I usually ask for both blind spots both exterior mirrors and internal. Apparently off the record he said to the area manager i had asked for an eight point check, which would mean the small mirrors under exterior mirrors. I don't have those on my car!

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#73 07-09-13 18:35:20

John O'Leary
Member
Registered: 07-09-13
Posts: 3

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

I can see you're undecided on what course of action to take. I wish you well with your endeavours.

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#74 07-09-13 18:36:30

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Many thanks for your time John. Appreciated.

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#75 22-09-13 14:53:29

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

John O'Leary wrote:

I can see you're undecided on what course of action to take.

Did you decide on the next course of action rustinho ?

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