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#26 25-08-13 15:00:46

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Seems that this is worse than him refusing to check any mirrors when moving away in the car park then?

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25-08-13 15:00:46

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Re: Grounds for complaint after test?




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#27 25-08-13 16:03:24

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
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Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Certainly is, he can justify what he did with the  mirrors he cannot justify disrupting your test.

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#28 25-08-13 16:05:38

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Thanks again for replies, much appreciated.

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#29 25-08-13 16:45:59

Lewinpeter1
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From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
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Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi
Sounds like a right t@sser!
If we didnt teach learners to use mirrors (and all round checks), what would the dsa think of us?
He is supposed to be a learner.
Not fit for the job imo
You make a complaint basing it on the exs attitude and boorish manner.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#30 25-08-13 16:47:18

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

As a matter of interest, how do you know for sure that the examiner didn't look in any of the mirrors as he looked all around the car?  apart from him saying he wont.  Once he said he can't see any more in the mirror perhaps a pertinent question would have been to ask what he can see in the mirrors.  Were they set correctly?  As Kaf suggested, if he can see all around, does it matter how he does it?  Personally I prefer to use the mirrors, but it isn't my business to insist others do it my way if they have an efficient method of making appropriate observations.

I agree with others about his unprofessional behaviour towards other road users.  It is absolutely none of his business where ADI's get their pupils to practice their manoeuvres and he most certainly should NOT be trying to take things into his hands.


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#31 25-08-13 16:48:13

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi, my trainer ringing Tuesday and going to pass my details on to area manager. Will see what happens.

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#32 25-08-13 17:01:36

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi, it was apparent he hadn't, interior was most obvious. He admitted out of role he hadn't and wouldn't. He set them up as part of cockpit drill. I queried what he could see, in role, as he should be able to see down the car (impossible out if the window). He said the mirror was set up to have the centre in line with the horizon, which indicated to me he knew how to set them up and were correctly positioned. As I said my example was a small child, under window hight, he said he wouldn't see him in mirrors either!

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#33 25-08-13 20:00:24

AUTAX
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Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Probably wouldn't if the horizon was in the middle. I usually go for the horizon being about three-quarters up the mirror. Not interested in the sky. smile


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#34 25-08-13 20:12:21

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Official dsa guideline states middle which is why he said it I guess.

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#35 25-08-13 20:15:00

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

How I set mine up is nothing to do with the horizon, I can clearly see door handle and just below it. Everyone is different but my point I guess is he demonstrated he knew how to do it physically and how it should be set up.

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#36 25-08-13 20:20:42

AUTAX
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Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Different models different set ups. But position of the horizon is not as important as what can be seen and compared to what is seen (true view) in the rear view mirror. I'm talking about the plane of view not how much of the side of the car can be seen which should be minimal anyway.

If the horizon ends up in the middle then fine but in my DS3 the horizon is probably 4/5ths up the mirror.

Last edited by AUTAX (25-08-13 20:22:24)


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#37 25-08-13 20:42:46

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

The other point could be if he'd said at the end or out if role i hadn't set mirrors correctly? I don't think set up was an issue, he wasn't checking them, full stop. I drive mini so I agree set up for that is different to my old fellas Volvo estate, individual to the car you drive.

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#38 25-08-13 20:56:12

brod
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Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

A pdi on a part 3 test is being tested on many things. Knowledge and familiarity with E Skills is most important'. You need to explain the vision in the mirrors as explained in E Skills. It does not make any difference to the type of vehicle you drive.
PS thank you for the PM Rustino smile

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#39 25-08-13 21:15:25

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

No problem, thanks again, all advice taken with gratitude.

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#40 25-08-13 21:18:36

AUTAX
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Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Vision from mirrors is dependent on the model of car being driven.

What the hell is E Skills? I Googled it and it had nothing to do with Driver Training but IT skills.


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#41 25-08-13 22:44:55

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

AUTAX wrote:

Vision from mirrors is dependent on the model of car being driven. .

Just to repeat, It has nothing to do with the model of car being driven, though i would be most intrigued with your explanation! hmm

AUTAX wrote:

What the hell is E Skills? I Googled it and it had nothing to do with Driver Training but IT skills.

Forgive me!! I incorrectly made the assumption that all ADIs would understand what i meant. roll  Driving Essential Skills. This is a publication from DSA. It is a very useful tool to carry in the instructors vehicle as a large percentage of the driving test criteria is taken from it. In the case of a PDI on part 3 test this publication and the PDIs knowledge of its contents will go some way to the success of the PDIs result.

PS, Please feel free to correct any spelling errors. big_smile

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#42 25-08-13 23:24:48

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

AUTAX wrote:

Vision from mirrors is dependent on the model of car being driven. .

brod wrote:

Just to repeat, It has nothing to do with the model of car being driven, though i would be most intrigued with your explanation! hmm

We'll have to agree to differ then.

AUTAX wrote:

What the hell is E Skills? I Googled it and it had nothing to do with Driver Training but IT skills.

brod wrote:

Forgive me!! I incorrectly made the assumption that all ADIs would understand what i meant. roll  Driving Essential Skills. This is a publication from DSA. It is a very useful tool to carry in the instructors vehicle as a large percentage of the driving test criteria is taken from it. In the case of a PDI on part 3 test this publication and the PDIs knowledge of its contents will go some way to the success of the PDIs result.

PS, Please feel free to correct any spelling errors. big_smile


Of course know what Driving - The Essential Skills publication is, to give it it's correct title. I've bought several copies over the years and noted the changes and omissions the DSA have made in succeeding prints. I've just never heard it called E Skills before. Or am I the only one? Is it some sort of text or twit speak?  lol  lol  lol


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#43 27-08-13 11:06:22

Rustinho
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Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

My trainer spoke to area manager today and said he'd had a pupil with an issue with a test and gave brief details. Area manager, who  has a huge area said, don't tell me and named test centre and examiner! This would imply to me I wasn't the first person. He is looking into it tomorrow before he speaks to me directly hopefully on Thursday. Will most likely have to make a formal complaint, which I expected to have to do, to proceed.

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#44 27-08-13 11:34:09

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

That's the usual procedure. Be honest and don't flower it up.

If the Area Manager has had complaints in the past then your complaint will be dealt with fairly.

Good luck on a positive outcome.  smile


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#45 27-08-13 12:19:11

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Many thanks, actually my trainer eased back a bit. I'll just tell it as it happened and see what he makes of it.

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#46 28-08-13 17:17:22

sofasurfer
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 30-07-13
Posts: 310

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

It sounds as if you are weak with your instructions. The examiner needed to be told, clearly, that moving away without checking the mirrors is not acceptable. Full stop. End of. No exceptions. Coming out of role might have been an attempt to intimidate you into changing your mind, it sounds as if you dithered and allowed him to do as he wished. I would have stopped him and told him why it is essential to check the mirrors. I would have kept stopping him until he did it properly.

With regard to the other incident, would you allow a pupil to stop next to another learner driver and tell them off ? No, of course not. I would have pulled him over and pointed out the dangers, just like you would on a lesson. He is a pupil NOT an examiner.

Next time, be more positive and use a digital voice recorder as insurance. Don't tell the examiner you are using it.

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#47 28-08-13 17:21:54

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

sofasurfer wrote:

It sounds as if you are weak with your instructions. The examiner needed to be told, clearly, that moving away without checking the mirrors is not acceptable. Full stop. End of. No exceptions. Coming out of role might have been an attempt to intimidate you into changing your mind, it sounds as if you dithered and allowed him to do as he wished. I would have stopped him and told him why it is essential to check the mirrors. I would have kept stopping him until he did it properly.

With regard to the other incident, would you allow a pupil to stop next to another learner driver and tell them off ? No, of course not. I would have pulled him over and pointed out the dangers, just like you would on a lesson. He is a pupil NOT an examiner.

Next time, be more positive and use a digital voice recorder as insurance. Don't tell the examiner you are using it.

LIKE  smile

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#48 28-08-13 17:38:07

Rustinho
Member
Registered: 24-08-13
Posts: 33

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Hi, again thanks for input but you'll politely accept that I don't agree with what you've said. It is illegal to record anyone without their consent so I would have literally broken the law if I had taken your advice. I have spoken to the area manager myself today and if I can confirm that the examiner did admonish and adi the test will be stricken, he made no mention of what you suggested as frankly it would have been a farce. Thanks.

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#49 28-08-13 19:02:10

sofasurfer
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 30-07-13
Posts: 310

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

Rustinho,

Which law would be broken by recording your test ?

The examiners will always cause you problems during Part 3 because some pupils do !

During Part 2 and 3 and during Check Tests, the examiners have tried to cause me grief but I have always been polite and firm. If you allow them to get slightly out of order, they will cause chaos.

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#50 28-08-13 19:10:23

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Grounds for complaint after test?

sofasurfer wrote:

Next time, be more positive and use a digital voice recorder as insurance. Don't tell the examiner you are using it.

This is not allowed on test as i'm sure you know. Just because you don't tell the examiner doe's not make it right. No ADI trainer should suggest this to a PDI.

Why would it be insurance i have no idea as telling anybody about it could jepardise your green badge so it would be no use at all.

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