You are not logged in.


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#1 22-07-05 07:41:00

skip qualify
Verified Member
Registered: 20-11-04
Posts: 461

Core Comps

Anyone aware of reference material on the web regarding core competencies ?

I got quite an exhaustive list from my trainers and dont really want to shell out for that "600 core competencies" book.

Does anyone have it ?...What do you think of it ?

Cheers  lol

SQ

Offline

22-07-05 07:41:00

AdBot
Google AdSense Posting Bot

Re: Core Comps



#2 22-07-05 07:43:23

luchell
Guest

Re: Core Comps

i use core competencies made easy by brian stratton. 19.99 but well worth it. i searched on ask jeeves to get it, i cant remember the website sorry.

#3 22-07-05 07:52:50

skip qualify
Verified Member
Registered: 20-11-04
Posts: 461

Re: Core Comps

cheers.............. I'll look into that

It's 19.95 from Instructor Training Pubs, which I think is cheaper than the "600" book.

SQ 
    smile

Offline

#4 22-07-05 20:19:15

pk1
Guest

Re: Core Comps

Surely your core competencies are to Find a fault - Analise the dangers and reason for the fault and give Remedial action - i.e. talk through the fault being made to fix it - F.A.R.  big_smile

#5 22-07-05 21:22:48

Rauxaman
Guest

Re: Core Comps

I'm not too sure that "core competencies" are something that you can learn from a book... it's all about getting out there and doing it.


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#6 22-07-05 22:44:53

sibeks
Verified Member
From: NE Hampshire
Registered: 09-01-05
Posts: 347
Website

Re: Core Comps

I think you got that right Rauxaman,
It's all about core competencies, I mean you can study until the cows come home and still fail because of those core comps.
I'm beginning to realise that going on a pink is very necessary to get the skill and lingo. I'm looking at the possiblity of going part-time pink. I don't think training sessions is enough, you need to get the balance of training and experiance as this seems to go hand in hand.
Si


Part 1 Passed Nov 8th 04 - 1st Time
Part 2 Passed Apr 20th 05 - 2nd Time
Part 3 Passed Mar 23rd 06 - 2nd Time

http://www.rimmersdrivingschool.com

Offline

#7 23-07-05 07:10:11

Rauxaman
Guest

Re: Core Comps

Pink or not? It's such a difficult call... everyday working as an instructor can dilute what is needed in the test.
I can also see how pt 3 training can easily take 6 months plus... just to get one's head around putting the core competencies into effective practice.


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#8 23-07-05 10:28:39

JonnyG
Verified Member
From: Belfast
Registered: 13-01-05
Posts: 742
Website

Re: Core Comps

http://www.instructor-training.co.uk/ITP_BuyOnline.htm

this is the link to brian strattons book. I bought it too and my trainer thinks its great!

Ive just touched on that slightly in my training, so hav'nt really got using the book properly yet.

Im also considreing going part time on a pink.

Offline


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#9 23-07-05 10:30:09

JonnyG
Verified Member
From: Belfast
Registered: 13-01-05
Posts: 742
Website

Re: Core Comps

http://www.instructor-training.co.uk/ITP_BuyOnline.htm

this is the link to brian strattons book. I bought it too and my trainer thinks its great!

Ive just touched on that slightly in my training, so hav'nt really got using the book properly yet.

Im also considreing going part time on a pink.

Offline

#10 23-07-05 13:02:54

Rog
Member
From: Slough
Registered: 01-07-04
Posts: 117
Website

Re: Core Comps

Rauxaman,

That's why I decided not to go the pink route (it would have cost me an additional £570 with LDC). Instead I've opted for 60 hours + practical training before my part 3 on the 27th of Sep. At least this way I won't be reinforcing teaching incorrect or substandard methods.

Rog


Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience!

Offline

#11 23-07-05 22:14:11

pk1
Guest

Re: Core Comps

Thanks for the link to the book core comps - looks really interesting - just ordered one - cheers

#12 24-07-05 11:14:20

Rauxaman
Guest

Re: Core Comps

Rog,

This is the route that I'm taking at the moment. I have been seriously considering a pink as it is the phase two bit where I'm weakest (failed first attempt 5/3) and maybe if I'm careful in how I approach things I might gain some benefit.

My trainer disagrees but I feel that things have hit a plateau... the sessions consist of doing a PST and him catching me out in phase two every time, I feel that I'm getting nowhwhere but am unconvinced that a book will help hence me being tempted by a pink. But my trainer thinks that I'll fall into the trap of thinking "I can do this job" before qualifying. I definitely started feeling this way when I took on half a dozen learners to practice with... had to call a halt there as it was affecting my PST performances.

Lost my only remaining pupil (I kept him on as he had booked a test and was used to my car) last week when he passed his test so I've got a 100% pass record but feel deficient in phase two.

Perhaps I should bite the bullet like yourself and pay for another block of lessons to bring me to the 60hrs... it does seem to be the magic figure.


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#13 24-07-05 11:25:25

Rog
Member
From: Slough
Registered: 01-07-04
Posts: 117
Website

Re: Core Comps

Rauxaman,

For me also (and many others) it seems the more experienced the student is, the more I struggle. I do well in PST's 1 & 2, but struggle on the Phase 2's.

I've attached a link from another posting, in case you didn't see it, that backs this up and is a very interesting read:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/d … P476_81361

Regards
Rog


Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience!

Offline

#14 24-07-05 15:07:30

luchell
Guest

Re: Core Comps

for getting used to phase two, my pink has worked wonders. ive had quite a few pupils who needed sorting out before test. so it became easier to learn how not to over instruct and use good q and a instead. with reference to brian strattons book core comps made easy, all this book is is a list of reason why a certain fault may have happened. it lists tons of common faults and reason why with remedial action supplied. its just very interesting. ive learnt what i need on the road but its handy to have a flip through it at times.

#15 24-07-05 20:15:27

Rauxaman
Guest

Re: Core Comps

Thanks for that Rog-

No I haven't seen it before and it is a very interesting read...

The majority of the passes were first attempts which has poured water on the bonfires of those who say that you never pass first time (I had one of those in the waiting room whilst waiting for mine).

No significant difference in pass rates between those candidates with Trainee Licences and those without which suggests that this should be used as a means to secure an income whilst training and not as a training aid.

A definite weakness in the preparation and training amongst the PDI candidates was identified particularly with regards to phase 2 (the report states that PDIs were better equipped to instruct beginners/partly trained pupils).

This tells me that the trainers are not getting to grips with what the DSA require in this respect and it will probably get worse in the light of the additional qualified driver role play listed in this week's DSA letter.

From reading this I can see where you have got your 60 hr bench mark from and I must make my decision soon in this respect.

So far my trainer has failed to inspire me, the teaching has consisted of doing pst's and him telling me why I have failed. How does a trainer address phase 2 in a more positive manner? Are we looking at something that (maybe) is impossible to teach with any certainty?

One thing is for sure, the entire ADI training industry is a dishonest mess with trainers taking money whilst not addressing what the examining body actually requires from the candidates. It's a miracle (with a generous slice of luck) how anyone passes!!!!

#16 25-07-05 07:41:44

luchell
Guest

Re: Core Comps

rauxaman. have a chat with dash driving. im sure they can help you lots with phase two over the phone! send them a pm.


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#17 25-07-05 09:37:05

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Core Comps

Hi,

Rauxaman ,

You're dead right about first time passes. No need to expect anything but a pass on the first attempt. All these stories of the first go being a 'toe in the water' are just scarey! You've got three attempts, and threee attempts only . . . try to make the first one count.

You're also dead right about the pink. No dfference in pass rates for those on it or those not on it. I realy do believe that it's used by a great many schools to generate even more franchise revenue, without giving the trainee much more training. In fact, they can charge you for the extra 20 hours, so they win all ends up.

You're dead wrong when you say that it's a miracle how anyone passes!

I'm really sorry to upset anyone, but phase 2 is very straightforward.

In fact, phase 1 is very straightforward as well.

How can I put this . . . there is no such thing as a phase 1 learner and there is no such thing as phase 2 learner. There are only learners.

'Phase 1' and 'phase 2' are just reference phrases dreamed up by the DSA for the SE's to categorise the pst's, and to test your ability to deal with pupils at differing pre set levels of competence.

Part 3 is a lesson. Nothing else. Your job is to teach . . . so think about it . . . how will you approach the two 'phases' differently?

Every well structured lesson, whether it be driving, golf, making fairy cakes or map reading, runs along similar lines.

Your task as a teacher is to establish in the briefing what the pupil already knows which will assist them, then teach them what they need to know for the subject you are teaching, then help them to get some practice to put it all together.

You continualy assess their learning by watching them, prompting if necessary, but gradually reducing your level of instruction until the learner can do it all for themselves.

And it's exactly the same for phase 1 or phase 2. The ony difference is the level of instruction you give on the briefing, and the level of instruction you give on the move

No learner is an empty box. They all have some knowledge that you can build on in whatever lesson you have to teach.

Think about this . . . phase 1 emerging . . . the learner will never have emerged from a junction before. In this case, your level of instruction will be quite high.

your pupil will already have some, even if limitted, driving experience . . . so use it! Ask them if they've covered approaching junctions? If so, no need to teach them ms-psl, no need for lengthy explanations about which mirrors etc etc. Ask them questions about it to make sure that they understand it, then simply teach them the rest of what they need to know to emerge.

In effect, you're building on previous knowledge.

Then, off you go in the car . . . FULLY talk them through one or two emerges (they've never done it before) then gradually reduce the level of instruction and prompt them to do it by themselves.

All the time, you're assessing them to make sure that they do it right. You fix any faults, give encouragement etc etc.

So, you start off instructing a lot, and gradually reduce the instruction and increase the 'assessing' as you reduce your level of help.

Phase 1 over and done . . .

Now, what about phase 2?

It's exactly the same!

You start the lesson with a briefing where you establish what your learners level of knowledge is about emerging. In this case, they should know everything, because all the pre set lessons are pitched at around driving test standard.

So, no need for lengthy explanations. Just make sure they have knowledge of the subject with Q and A, then get the car moving . . .

Think about how you'll approach it now . . . will you instruct? or will you assess?

Well, your learner will have told you that they've emerged before, so all you have to do is to assess them on their ability to spot any weak areas.

You have to keep the car safe . . safety overrides everything . . . but there's no need to teach them through every emerge they come to.

If you do that, how on earth will you know what skill level your learner (SE) truly has?

So, keep the level of instruction down and watch carefully.

You'll soon spot the weaknesses in their technique. You can then pull them up and give them the good news that you can help them sort out the problem . . . discuss the issues with them . . . teach them if necessary, if the problem is a lack of knowledge in any area . . . then get under way again.

Now . . . do not fall into the trap of worrying about this 'under instruction' 'over instruction' rubbish, whereby some trainers tell you not to instruct at all on phase 2

You are a driving instructor, not a driving passenger.

So, if necessary, you'll help your phase 2 learner through the very next emerge, by prompting or full talk through . . . depends on the circumstances . . . then you'll reduce your instruction as they progress.

You'll reduce your instruction very quickly indeed, and revert to assessing them. If you've done your job, the SE will now emerge very well, or with just a little prompting.

The point is . . . instruct where necessary, assess when they should be able to do it. If you continue to instruct, you may be marked down for level of instruction.

Clearly, you'll need to sort out any other issues that arise, but in a nutshell, that's all there is to it . . .

Phase 2 over and done with . . .

The point is that there is no real difference between phase 1 and phase 2. All you do is vary your level of instruction and level of assessing accordingly. There are no 'phases', only lessons.

At the beginning of a driving course, your level of instruction is very high and your level of assessing to fix faults is low.

At the end of a driving course (test standard) your level of instruction should be very low, and your level of assessing should be high.

Most learners are somewhere between these extremes, and you vary your level of instruction and level of assessing accordingly.

Dead simple. No phase 1. No phase 2. Just a lesson.

Even the pre set tests are all the same . . . there aren't 10 pre set tests . . . only 1. Because in reality, you're being marked on exactly the same things for each of them.

So long as you know the driving subject inside out, and you should know it inside out before taking part 2 (if not, why not??), then the pre set tests are a doddle to comprehend, because all they are is a lesson.

Part 3 is all about teaching, and very, very little to do with driving. Your training for part 3 should be just that . . . preparing you to teach, yet so many people end up having to learn how to do a move off, how to turn in the road etc. etc. They cling to the briefings as being the only tangible thing that they can put their hands on.

But part 3 is all about teaching, and your skills as a teacher.

Sorry to go on a bit, but the point is that phase 2 is just a lesson . . . like any other.

As Luchell says, give me a ring if you want any advice.

regards,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

Offline

#18 25-07-05 10:14:25

Rauxaman
Guest

Re: Core Comps

Hi Dash-

Thanks for the thorough reply.

In the sample of 42 candidates only a miserable 24% passed hence my comment about miracles.

From further analysis  there was (quoting from the DoT report):

"Evidence of inadequate preparation and/or training among Part 3 candidates"

"A higher frequency of lower grades awarded for i) Remedial Action Phase 2 ii) Level of instruction Phase 2 (These are the subjects where the PDIs skills appear to be the weakest)"

"PDIs appear to be better equipped to instruct beginners/partly trained pupils than those at trained stage"

With regards to inadequate preparation/training this must be the responsibility of the trainers, especially those who advertise "anyone can be a driving instructor" and offer 25hrs of Pt.3 training.
My own experience was that I did not feel ready after 38hrs but my trainer insisted that I was so I gave in to his superior knowledge, that was what he was being paid for in the end.

The failings in the sample were mainly in the phase 2 section, particularly in the analysis and rectification aspects of the core competencies. I cannot see this improving when the fully trained driver role play is introduced later this year.

Everything you have said makes perfect sense (I have experience of Further Education teaching with a very good personal Ofsted grade) so I should be able to sort this out eventually.
I pity those who have no teaching experience and are left to rely solely on the trainers (yourself excepted) as they seem to be unable to supply the training that the DSA requires... there is a definite breakdown here hence the very low pass rates and the "nobody passes" excuses.


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#19 25-07-05 10:32:32

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Core Comps

Hi,

Can't say I disagree with you!

The pass rate for part 3 on a national basis has just dropped again. It's now down to 24%. Less than one in four who start part 3 training will ever actually pass.

I have no doubts at all why the pass rates are so appalling . . . but this forum is not the place for me to tell you what I think!

My biggest fear is that the DSA will try to rectify it, and just make it worse in the process. There are rumours that they may introduce an 'ORDIT' only rule for trainers. I truly suspect that it will be disasterous. Some of the most confused, under trainer pdi's I've ever helped have come to me from ORDIT companies.

This is a big money industry, and money talks with a very loud voice. Whatever changes are made, the big companies will have a say, just as they did with ORDIT. The industry could end up policing itself (again), with the bigger companies ensuring that the smaller ones have no chance of providing training.

I remain convinced that the pass rates are only as high as 24% because of the independent trainers who actually do know what is required.

I have heard stories that some of the bigger nationals have pass rates as low as 7%. We'll never know, because they won't tell us!

If the DSA do make changes such as the ones proposed, I'll sit back and watch the fireworks . . . I've no doubt that the pass rates will drop like a stone in a lake.

But that's another story . . .

take care,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

Offline

#20 25-07-05 11:01:58

Rauxaman
Guest

Re: Core Comps

What a mess...

The DSA have specified a performance standard via their ADI tests and the training organisations have taken it upon themselves to only pay lip service to these standards and build their financial models upon the vast majority of their customers (93%?) failing!

What exactly is required to become an ORDIT trainer? Does it involve any teaching theory?

#21 25-07-05 11:59:41

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Core Comps

Nope,

It's purely voluntary, and you can repeat the pre set tests over and over, parrot fashion. No teaching theory needed. The process is quite simple really.

As you are someone with a good knowledge of what is required to be an effective teacher, I suspect that a lot of pennies may have started to drop!

Yes. It's a mess.

Myself and Sharron are moving onto do the Cert. Ed. fairly soon. As I've said, once you've got the driving skills, the rest (90%?) is about teaching.

Keep at it. You'll get there.


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

Offline

#22 25-07-05 19:19:50

sue hawkins
Guest

Re: Core Comps

I agree with almost all of what you said, but why slag of ORDIT trainers? There are many 'trainers' who are training PDIs who quite frankly are doing a complete dis service to their clients! I am not suggesting you are one of them as you make a lot of sense but I truly believe that all trainers should be ORDIT registered as I get many enquiries about dissolusioned PDIs who clearly haven't be trained properly!. I have undergone many months of training to be a trainer of iinstructors with Learner Driving Centres (who are ORDIT registered) and realise how difficult (in the beginning) it is to become to the required standard. If you think Pt 3 is difficult, the ORDIT test is 100 times more difficult.  I am passionate about my job ...I trained with LDC and passed 1st time in every part (down to an excellent trainer and my own hard work...and of course a bit of luck....) I have been assessed as being at the required standard and awaitng my ORDIT test date. I strongly recommend LDC primarily through my own experience but if a trainee fails their 1st attempt at Pt 3 they are only required to obtain 5 hrs additional in car practical training before attempting an additional attempt of which LDC pay for the 3 hrs.  I'm presuming you are not ORDIT registered....but I ask myself why? If you are passionate about your job why not go for the test , after all it is the SE's who will be testing the PdiS? I for one am very keen to achieve the 'standard' required by an ORDIT test.

#23 25-07-05 20:42:38

luchell
Guest

Re: Core Comps

to me also, ordit means nothing having been trained by so called ordit trainers. im afraid i wouldnt care what dash driving has or hasnt got id gladly grasp their training as opposed to anyone elses anyday.

just like anything else, their are rubbish ordit trainers and fantastic not ordit registered. im quite sure dash did not intend to offend anyone and are just giving their views on the topic. they are extremely concerned about levels of pdi training and like it sounds you do to, only want the ultimate best training for us.

#24 25-07-05 22:13:52

Rog
Member
From: Slough
Registered: 01-07-04
Posts: 117
Website

Re: Core Comps

Sue,

I think you were down to be my trainer when I started with LDC last year, but as I was so far out of your patch I was transfered to Gary Williamson - am I right?

Roger (SID 7746)


Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience!

Offline


Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home2/matthutc/public_html/drivertrainingtoday.co.uk/include/parser.php on line 787

#25 26-07-05 06:32:27

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: Core Comps

Sue,

There are some superb ORDIT companies. Some of my personal friends are trainers with them. Funnily enough, one of them works for the same company you do.

You are clearly someone who feels as passionately as myself about the state of this industry, and about doing the very best we can for our trainees. I'm sure that we would share the same views on many areas of ADI training.

However, both my view and your view are of little help to those trainees who do use an ORDIT company and get training that is not of the best quality. Just as it is for those who use non ORDIT companies and get the same.

ORDIT is no guarantee, and it remains voluntary. The DSA themselves, on their ORDIT web page, say that they cannot be held responsible for any training received.

There are excellent ORDIT trainers, and some who are . . . well . . .

Just as there are excellent non ORDIT trainers, and some who are not so good.

The whole point for me is that ORDIT should be a guarantee. If ORDIT is no guarantee, then we acheive nothing by enforcing an ORDIT only rule on the training industry if it is left to run the way it is now.

ORDIT needs to be of real value, and it can only be such if standards are guaranteed.

regards


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB. Developed by Matt Hutchings