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#1 17-07-13 22:43:26

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

One driving fault anguish.

I was elated that Oliver passed this week first-time with just one d/f.
So close to a blank sheet.
After the immediate celebration and congratulations, I was incredulous to find out that he and I had missed out on the Holy Grail of a clean sheet for having a momentary blank on a SMTM question - Oli turned on the rear fog light but dug himself a hole in suggesting he'd get out to check if it was on (d'oh) and, it seems, the DSA can't allow examiners to lead a pupil by the nose through such a farce.  A supplementary question from the ex along the lines of "Oliver, think about it, how would you know your fog light is on whilst still sat in the car?" would have worked, but no ...
So, at the same time as being over the moon with an apparent faultless on-road performance, I was more than a little miffed, let's say, that I missed out on only my second blank sheet with, of all my pupils, Oliver who is my son for want of a finger pointing at a lit bulb.  Aarrgghhh!
Still, a pass is a pass and Oli now has the more important objective i.e. to apply everything he has learnt to stay out of bother in his early years of driving in particular.  The strike in that box still grates, though.


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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17-07-13 22:43:26

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Re: One driving fault anguish.



#2 17-07-13 22:53:26

Mentor
Verified Member
Registered: 22-10-05
Posts: 375

Re: One driving fault anguish.

If it hadn't been that it would have been something else. Still frustrating but on the bright side his driving was excellent and that's the main thing. Well done to both of you.  smile

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#3 18-07-13 03:42:36

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: One driving fault anguish.

But, the warning light is a warning light. It doesn't in fact show the rear fog light is lit. The question is "How do you know the rear fog light is on?". The only way to know for sure is to get out and check.

Perhaps the question needs to be re-written to ask ".....and how would you know the switch has been turned on?"


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#4 18-07-13 04:57:53

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: One driving fault anguish.

Oh, and this particular ex is well known for being downright rude with few customer facing skills (that's not just hearsay for me in 9 yrs of presenting at TC).  I guess the DSA are keen not to be heard saying anything to a pupil that resembles "you're a brilliant driver" but not one word came from his lips (to Oli or me) along the lines of "that was a really nice/pleasant/smooth/uneventful drive - keep it up - if only you had mentioned ..."
How is it that some ex's manage to do the job without entering into any vaguely humanoid interactions?


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#5 18-07-13 07:29:44

Triplea35
Verified Member
Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 500

Re: One driving fault anguish.

Congratulations to your son, and I do understand that a pupil although celebrating a pass can feel so disappointed, almost cheated, by being given one driver fault.

Although my pupils have had 9 clean sheets in the last couple of years I have twice as many again with one driver fault. Disappointing when you know what the fault was but even more frustrating when you have no idea when it occurred.

We have one DE who says very little during or after the test when passed. No congratulations, just 'You've passed, can I see both parts of your dl' and then hands them the pass certificate with dl25 only for us to see its a clean sheet or one driver fault. On two occasions recently the fault has been mirrors - change of speed   and the examiner has gone before we are able to see what the fault was or ask where it occurred. Not so bad if I can confirm a fault occurred but very frustrating if I am at a loss as to where/if the fault occurred which was the case with both the recent mirror faults.

To a clean sheet we have some examiners who say no more than 'There were no faults worthy of recording'  whilst the best (guarded) congratulations I can think of recently was from the TCM who said:

'If you can MAINTAIN that standard of driving then you should not go far wrong'

Last edited by Triplea35 (18-07-13 07:37:03)

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#6 18-07-13 07:47:21

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: One driving fault anguish.

My daughter also had one fault.

On TIR half way through the reverse leg a car approached,,she paused,,watched it stop and carried on.

" we were already blocking the road, so that car could not have got past us, there was no need to pause for him, I have given you a fault as you did not act correctly upon your observations"

We both just sat there open mouthed

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#7 18-07-13 08:08:51

MGM
Verified Member
From: Surrey
Registered: 24-10-11
Posts: 861

Re: One driving fault anguish.

I've only had two clean sheets in five years, and on both occasions the ex. congratulated the pupil. Last time, the ex even congratulated me!

It seems we have nicer examiners in these parts. smile

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#8 18-07-13 08:10:39

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: One driving fault anguish.

kaf wrote:

My daughter also had one fault.

On TIR half way through the reverse leg a car approached,,she paused,,watched it stop and carried on.

" we were already blocking the road, so that car could not have got past us, there was no need to pause for him, I have given you a fault as you did not act correctly upon your observations"

We both just sat there open mouthed

I won't be changing anything in my teaching to reflect the ex's comment.
Strange nonsense-spouting arbiters of a driving standard and upholders of public safety that hold a pen with an apparent need to know the pen is still working?

It's a relief that I have only been to a TC twice this year.

Last edited by ralge (18-07-13 08:12:14)


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#9 18-07-13 10:47:19

brod
Banned
Registered: 20-03-13
Posts: 694

Re: One driving fault anguish.

Well done to yourself and Oliver Ralge good result smile
I feel your frustration sad closest I ever came to a clean sheet was a test I sat in and witnessed the following.
Pupil performed a faultless drive, we were on our way back to Reddish TC, Reddish TC is on a main road and the candidates often park on the main outside the TC at end of test. On this occasion there was no room so the examiner asked my pupil to turn left and park in a side street. The examiner was completing the DL25 to the point where he had even signed it when suddenly the pupil clipped a door mirror of a parked car sad  examiner had to mark a serious fault mad all 3 of us were gutted sad
I would love to know the secret of gaining a clean sheet let alone how to get 9 clean sheets. Never had one in 20 years sad

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#10 19-07-13 08:09:51

robcooling
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 02-04-09
Posts: 1,451
Website

Re: One driving fault anguish.

I've had a 1df test pass also with the 1df caused by a pupil 'blank out' moment on the show me tell me. We had prepared very thoroughly but the lads brain froze up and he couldn't remember the answer to the power steering question.


Rob

http://www.appledriving.co.uk - Driving Lessons in Nottingham

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#11 20-07-13 19:39:19

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: One driving fault anguish.

kaf wrote:

My daughter also had one fault.

On TIR half way through the reverse leg a car approached,,she paused,,watched it stop and carried on.

" we were already blocking the road, so that car could not have got past us, there was no need to pause for him, I have given you a fault as you did not act correctly upon your observations"

We both just sat there open mouthed

What?  and what would the ex have said if she had continued and the idiot approaching drove half on the footpath to squeeze past?  To my mind she did exactly the right thing to wait and see his intentions!


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#12 20-07-13 20:30:12

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: One driving fault anguish.

My thoughts entirely Nigel, I have had people drive over the pavement tring to get past us on a TIR.

My description is word for,word what the De said,in debrief.

Yet to find and ADI who would,not teach the same.

She was gutted, she actually EXPECTED a clean sheet she was that confident.!

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#13 20-07-13 21:27:43

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: One driving fault anguish.

An Examiner is not supposed to nit pick but some Examiners cannot admit to sitting with a trained novice that can drive faultlessly for a full 40 minutes.

Everyone makes mistakes some time or other and that's from the top down.

Looks like you both had a similar Examiner.


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#14 07-04-15 10:25:11

markwilson_100
Member
Registered: 24-03-15
Posts: 9

Re: One driving fault anguish.

look of the gods!

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#15 07-04-15 22:04:47

Triplea35
Verified Member
Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 500

Re: One driving fault anguish.

robcooling wrote:

I've had a 1df test pass also with the 1df caused by a pupil 'blank out' moment on the show me tell me. We had prepared very thoroughly but the lads brain froze up and he couldn't remember the answer to the power steering question.

Had a young lady recently who passed theory with 50/50. Went through the entire question database twice! Equally thoroughly prepared for practical.
Examiner asked her a SMTM re brakes. She recited an answer word perfect re not spongy or slack, not pull to one side etc. Examiner just said thank you and continued. Pupil had a perfect drive, just one df - he said he'd asked about the brake lights!!

Another young lady drove round without fault. So used to reversing into bays that when returned to TC (having already done a perfect p/park) she drove forward, stopped to put in reverse but examiner just told her to switch off engine and gave her a df for parking out of a bay!

Rough comes with the smooth though, just had the second of two Ellie's, both hairdressers, both work in the same hair salon, and both passed first attempt with clean sheets! Whats the odds on that then?  smile

Last edited by Triplea35 (07-04-15 22:11:07)

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#16 08-04-15 06:47:27

AUTAX
Verified Member
Registered: 22-07-11
Posts: 1,032

Re: One driving fault anguish.

Triplea35 wrote:
robcooling wrote:

I've had a 1df test pass also with the 1df caused by a pupil 'blank out' moment on the show me tell me. We had prepared very thoroughly but the lads brain froze up and he couldn't remember the answer to the power steering question.

Had a young lady recently who passed theory with 50/50. Went through the entire question database twice! Equally thoroughly prepared for practical.
Examiner asked her a SMTM re brakes. She recited an answer word perfect re not spongy or slack, not pull to one side etc. Examiner just said thank you and continued. Pupil had a perfect drive, just one df - he said he'd asked about the brake lights!!

Another young lady drove round without fault. So used to reversing into bays that when returned to TC (having already done a perfect p/park) she drove forward, stopped to put in reverse but examiner just told her to switch off engine and gave her a df for parking out of a bay!

Rough comes with the smooth though, just had the second of two Ellie's, both hairdressers, both work in the same hair salon, and both passed first attempt with clean sheets! Whats the odds on that then?  smile

A Cut Above the Rest???   smile


Be Fear-less, go GEAR-LESS!

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#17 09-04-15 08:49:03

markwilson_100
Member
Registered: 24-03-15
Posts: 9

Re: One driving fault anguish.

I know someone who failed for not applying a handbrake at a stop sign - only used the foot brake. major fail. And they change the driving licence rules - http://www.jenningsforddirect.co.uk/blo … part/3021/

Last edited by markwilson_100 (03-06-15 13:12:59)

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#18 09-04-15 13:11:48

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: One driving fault anguish.

markwilson_100 wrote:

I know someone who failed for not applying a handbrake at a stop sign - only used the foot brake. major fail.

So far as I am aware, there only 3 types of faults, a driver fault, a serious fault and a dangerous fault.  Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by a major fail?

So long as the car comes to a halt, whether by means of the footbrake/handbrake it is not a "major" fail, as you put it. Now, if the car rolled back, that would be a different story altogether or if you "creep and peep" at the stop line without stopping, again, a different story.

I would be interested to hear your views on this once you start your PDI training and really go in-depth as to what is/isn't a serious fault.

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#19 11-04-15 08:03:49

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: One driving fault anguish.

markwilson_100 wrote:

I know someone who failed for not applying a handbrake at a stop sign - only used the foot brake. major fail.


Interesting, when you consider that many who drive auto's don't use the handbrake very often!

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#20 11-04-15 13:41:19

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,324
Website

Re: One driving fault anguish.

markwilson_100 wrote:

I know someone who failed for not applying a handbrake at a stop sign - only used the foot brake. major fail.


I fear they have misunderstood why they failed.  A common problem.

It is not even a fault to do this.

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#21 08-05-15 13:50:01

markwilson_100
Member
Registered: 24-03-15
Posts: 9

Re: One driving fault anguish.

kaf wrote:
markwilson_100 wrote:

I know someone who failed for not applying a handbrake at a stop sign - only used the foot brake. major fail.


I fear they have misunderstood why they failed.  A common problem.

It is not even a fault to do this.


think a driving instructor needs to learn the rules then!

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