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#1 27-12-12 16:07:42

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 649

Bay Parking

A random thought occurred to me today. 

I normally teach bay parking in a quiet car park at a local community centre or, in less busy times, in large superstore car parks where I am unlikely to interfere with anyone else; never had any problems.

If I chose to teach bay parking on a check test, how would the examiner react to such a situation?

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27-12-12 16:07:42

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Re: Bay Parking



#2 27-12-12 16:44:05

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
Website

Re: Bay Parking

Hi
I would imagine that it would be perfectly fine.
Be prepared to change your lesson if your pupil does something bizarre on the way to the area.
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#3 27-12-12 16:48:11

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: Bay Parking

Sounds better than clogging up the TC car park, plus think of all the added bonus hazards you'll encounter!!

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#4 27-12-12 18:03:42

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: Bay Parking

Make sure you check out beforehand if the car park of your choice is ok with this, as the last thing you want on your check test is some jobsworth banging on your window saying you can't practice bay parking in their car park and kick you out pronto.  wink
There are many car parks in my area that have attendants patrolling car parks and if they spot someone practicing bay parking they are on their case big time.

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#5 27-12-12 19:57:18

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay Parking

VandADI wrote:

Make sure you check out beforehand if the car park of your choice is ok with this, as the last thing you want on your check test is some jobsworth banging on your window saying you can't practice bay parking in their car park and kick you out pronto.  wink
There are many car parks in my area that have attendants patrolling car parks and if they spot someone practicing bay parking they are on their case big time.

Yes you can spot them miles off, they coming running across usually with a limp and a half grown moustache, telling you how you must not do bay parking in that car park as you may hit one of the cars that cannot be seen anywhere on the horizon.  roll

They are usually over 55 year old batchelors, who have managed to bore every woman they met to the point of suicide, so they use their natural charms as car park attendants.  smile

Last edited by Evan (27-12-12 19:58:47)

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#6 27-12-12 21:01:01

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay Parking

Certainly am happened to me on an industrial estate a few years back Peter, the car park was totally empty as it was a Saturday afternoon. Pouring down with rain and the security guard came running across like a man posessed, I could tell he was serious he even had a copy of Mein Kampf in his hand.  big_smile

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#7 27-12-12 21:06:20

(ROG)
Verified Member
From: LEICESTER
Registered: 23-08-10
Posts: 1,551

Re: Bay Parking

There are a number of very large supermarkets and shopping centres near me and nearly always a load of vacant quiet areas the furthest away from the store entrances so nobody bothers ADIs with learners

When I used to drive LGVs for a living I never has any issues with parking well away from the entrances in the quiet areas so I could nip in for this or that .... or a cheap brekky !!

Last edited by (ROG) (27-12-12 21:06:37)


IAM Observer
Leicester group of advanced motorists
LGV instructor from 2005 to 2008

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#8 27-12-12 22:02:40

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: Bay Parking

(ROG) wrote:

There are a number of very large supermarkets and shopping centres near me and nearly always a load of vacant quiet areas the furthest away from the store entrances so nobody bothers ADIs with learners

When I used to drive LGVs for a living I never has any issues with parking well away from the entrances in the quiet areas so I could nip in for this or that .... or a cheap brekky !!

Popping into the store is not a problem, whether for brekkie, to use the loo or even do some shopping, but if a driving school car is seen to be practicing bay parking (perhaps you can imagine how many different driving school cars practice in these car parks on a daily basis) despite it being in the far corner where no other cars may be parked, you will find that the supermarket chain does not take kindly to this, stating that you are "conducting your business" on their property, the business, of course, is teaching bay parking.

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#9 27-12-12 22:08:58

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Bay Parking

Bay parking would not be in the top 10 subjects I would pick for a C/T for many reasons some already mentioned.

Another point is, looking at the subjects for role play on the advice notes that come with the "invitation" roll , the absence of a maneuver I think tells its own story.

Maz.

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#10 27-12-12 22:25:56

robcooling
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 02-04-09
Posts: 1,451
Website

Re: Bay Parking

Think I've been kicked out of most car parks in Nottingham for teaching bay parking! I tend to use the park and ride car parks now.


Rob

http://www.appledriving.co.uk - Driving Lessons in Nottingham

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#11 28-12-12 04:58:04

Triplea35
Verified Member
Registered: 28-09-12
Posts: 502

Re: Bay Parking

MAZ wrote:

Another point is, looking at the subjects for role play on the advice notes that come with the "invitation" roll , the absence of a maneuver I think tells its own story.

Maz.

MSM and a MANOEUVRE is a role play option.

Last edited by Triplea35 (28-12-12 04:58:43)

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#12 28-12-12 06:40:33

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Bay Parking

Triplea35 wrote:
MAZ wrote:

Another point is, looking at the subjects for role play on the advice notes that come with the "invitation" roll , the absence of a maneuver I think tells its own story.

Maz.

MSM and a MANOEUVRE is a role play option.


Oooops!! Missed that one neutral cool

Maz.

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#13 28-12-12 10:53:27

Lady-Hynarc
Verified Member
Registered: 09-04-12
Posts: 649

Re: Bay Parking

MAZ wrote:

Bay parking would not be in the top 10 subjects I would pick for a C/T for many reasons some already mentioned.

Another point is, looking at the subjects for role play on the advice notes that come with the "invitation" roll , the absence of a maneuver I think tells its own story.

Maz.

...which begs the question...

What subjects would be in your top ten?

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#14 28-12-12 10:54:38

Daveyboy
Verified Member
From: Nr Alford, Lincolnshire
Registered: 25-01-09
Posts: 377

Re: Bay Parking

I did bay parking on my last CT.

I used the car park of the premises where we hold our monthly ADI meetings. The owner has given permission for the use of the car park during the day to members of the local ADI association.

I did explain this to the ACDE who conducted the CT.

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#15 28-12-12 23:09:28

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Bay Parking

Lady-Hynarc wrote:

...which begs the question...

What subjects would be in your top ten?

Well personally my preference is to let the ex decide, then I don't have the worry of planning the lesson and what should I do, and will the pupil let me down for the second time for a C/T.

But you are best with a subject that you can showcase your teaching skills, something that is obviously required next by the pupil but something that you can get your teeth into dynamically on the fly.

The thing that most pupils lack in any subject is anticipation skills (mainly due to lack of experience), doesnt matter if its junctions, roundabouts, meeting, D/Carriageways, pedestrian crossings basically with anything that is "on the move" you can improve the pupils anticipation skills by passing on your experience to them and helping them to plan ahead.

Teaching a maneuver for the first time particularly "bay park" which for me personally is either the first or second maneuver I teach, often the first if control skills are weak as it can be carried out in a quiet controlled area off road. Pupils who are at the stage I teach bay park will more than likely "mess up" on the way to the car park, which on a C/T will require the original subject to be abandoned, hence wasting any weeks of planning gone into the C/T.

Personally, for me No Plan is the best plan. (But everyone is different)

If I gave an SE a rigid PST type lesson with all my years, the SE would think I had learned nothing in all those years or I was "playing the game".


Maz.

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#16 29-12-12 16:22:50

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay Parking

Love it Triker, funny how its always their ilk that get given these jobs, usually the person who was the school clot, or the 'I never really did any good at anything, but now I have authority brigade'.  big_smile

Have you noticed the ones who come out of their houses and complain when you do a left reverse or a parallel park, always the same type of numpty, why don't they get a life or go and do something useful like give blood or something, or better still sign up at the local college on a course of ''How not to bore the life out of the rest of mankind with trivial complaints''.

Last edited by Evan (29-12-12 16:28:29)

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#17 02-01-13 16:46:51

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Bay Parking

With my minimal involvement in L-test work, I still had a thought the other day that hit me quite hard ... I never had an L-test work CT so I have never had to consider a lesson plan for a CT that involved a bay park ... But, in considering this I realised that I passed my own test 35 years ago at a TC that didn't have a car park, so no bay-parking tuition there.
I got through both Pt2 an 3 as a PDI at the same TC, never had to do a bay park myself and was never taught/showed how to deliver a bay parking lesson (there is no PST for it, from memory).
When I qualified, I went to my city's alternative TC (with a car park) to pick up a method from other ADI's and their pupils.  The right-angle method, favoured by many seemed the bees-knees in my untutored, inexperienced eyes.  I can imagine that pupils, once passed, ditch the right-angle method as they find that moving traffic to the rear, parked cars and different-width bays render the right-angle method unworkable.  By contrast, I now have a useable method that works in real-world situations but that only came from my fleet work not from any of my early training as a wannabe instructor.  Was I let down (and are others still being let down) by a system that encourages teaching to pass a test?
Or am I being harsh?


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#18 02-01-13 21:16:12

graham121150
Verified Member
From: Long Eaton
Registered: 29-08-11
Posts: 648
Website

Re: Bay Parking

I teach both the 45 and 90 methods, but the 45 method does not lend its self to to driving tests, due to most starting from the park prediction.

Graham

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#19 02-01-13 21:35:40

Coasting Mart
Verified Member
Registered: 11-06-09
Posts: 967

Re: Bay Parking

Was I let down (and are others still being let down) by a system that encourages teaching to pass a test?
Or am I being harsh?

Well, you seem to have managed to work it out, so were you really let down?

If someone can reverse safely and in a variety of situations, then they have some core skills which are transferable to other situations, and which are adaptable and can be developed.  We don't need to (indeed can't possibly) teach every aspect of driving that someone will encounter.

The system is what it is.  Having passed, people need to be responsible for themselves and continue to develop their skills and experience to cope with what they need/want to do.  How many people were ever taught to drive abroad, yet 'millions' seem to manage to cope when they go on holiday.

Learning/working out how to do something doesn't have to rely on being taught by someone else.  We should be encouraging people to be more self-reliant rather than always needing an expert to tell them what to do.  That's the biggest drawback of schools - they grow dependence rather than independence.  cool


"I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car"

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#20 02-01-13 22:59:42

ralge
Verified Member
From: Sheffield
Registered: 10-01-07
Posts: 320

Re: Bay Parking

Coasting Mart wrote:

Was I let down (and are others still being let down) by a system that encourages teaching to pass a test?
Or am I being harsh?

Well, you seem to have managed to work it out, so were you really let down?

If someone can reverse safely and in a variety of situations, then they have some core skills which are transferable to other situations, and which are adaptable and can be developed.  We don't need to (indeed can't possibly) teach every aspect of driving that someone will encounter.

The system is what it is.  Having passed, people need to be responsible for themselves and continue to develop their skills and experience to cope with what they need/want to do.  How many people were ever taught to drive abroad, yet 'millions' seem to manage to cope when they go on holiday.

Learning/working out how to do something doesn't have to rely on being taught by someone else.  We should be encouraging people to be more self-reliant rather than always needing an expert to tell them what to do.  That's the biggest drawback of schools - they grow dependence rather than independence.  cool

Best practice and workable methods of parking a car are a little more fundamental to driving than driving abroad, surely?

Empirically, I know that there a lot of drivers who cannot or choose not to reverse in a variety of situations and it seems to be the case that, once they no longer have stickers in their windows, once they find themselves in a real-world car park, they are not in a position to build on core skills and understanding that were not there in the first place.
"True independence" could be said to come, in this instance, from understanding the benefits that go with reversing into a bay, an understanding that motivates drivers to continue to reverse into a bay once the L-test is passed.  But go to any busy car park and you won't find much evidence of this understanding and, in truth, it wasn't part of my fleet badge training any more than it was in acquiring my green badge.


DSA Fleet Trainer, RoSPA Dip, PTLLS, Safed for Vans, NDAC/Speed Awareness on-road trainer, RoSPA RoAD Test Examiner.

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#21 02-01-13 22:59:56

MAZ
Verified Member
From: N/Wales, Cheshire
Registered: 13-06-06
Posts: 838

Re: Bay Parking

Coasting Mart wrote:

Was I let down (and are others still being let down) by a system that encourages teaching to pass a test?
Or am I being harsh?

Well, you seem to have managed to work it out, so were you really let down?

If someone can reverse safely and in a variety of situations, then they have some core skills which are transferable to other situations, and which are adaptable and can be developed.  We don't need to (indeed can't possibly) teach every aspect of driving that someone will encounter.

The system is what it is.  Having passed, people need to be responsible for themselves and continue to develop their skills and experience to cope with what they need/want to do.  How many people were ever taught to drive abroad, yet 'millions' seem to manage to cope when they go on holiday.

Learning/working out how to do something doesn't have to rely on being taught by someone else.  We should be encouraging people to be more self-reliant rather than always needing an expert to tell them what to do.  That's the biggest drawback of schools - they grow dependence rather than independence.  cool

Agree entirely, this is why folk need "training" on how to open a door nowadays.

When I was a kid I learnt from watching others do stuff and reading books, never had a dad but learnt to ride a 2 wheeler because the bolts fell out of my stabilisers and got lost, so I had no choice but to learn to ride it without.

We just need to be taught the basic skills and then be told that we can and should "adapt" them to suit any situation, and NOT be told that things MUST be done a certain way.

My Daughter has recently passed her test, I did not train her personally, but her shortcomings (no different to any other new driver) have been a big "eye opener" for me. Just a few points in the same vein as the thread, she asked, "how do I get up and down the curb so the bin lorry can get past like everyone else does, will it damage the car? When I had to queue up in the post office for ages my car got trapped in, it took ages to get out! I had to tell her that its ok to dry-steer, there your tyres you are paying for the replacements but if youre stuck you have no choice.

I will post on more eye openers as and when.

Maz.

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#22 02-01-13 23:18:50

Evan
Administrator
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 2,058

Re: Bay Parking

''Empirically, I know that there a lot of drivers who cannot or choose not to reverse in a variety of situations and it seems to be the case that, once they no longer have stickers in their windows, once they find themselves in a real-world car park, they are not in a position to build on core skills and understanding that were not there in the first place.''

Don't get me started on the stickers on windows nonsense, sick to death of having to sort that crap out when it rears its head with pupils who are taught this way.

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