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#1 15-10-11 14:58:02

Dave_Mooney
Member
Registered: 08-10-11
Posts: 22

Learning Part 1

I have heard of people learning part one on there own first instead of taking up a driving instructor course and being charged around £300 for the training of it.


What actually do you need to pass part one? when learning to drive i just used toe Focus CD and hazard CD and past first time and also had the high way code for reading and learning my road signs etc. So would it be the same materials for the ADI questions or would i need more training or materials.


Dave

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15-10-11 14:58:02

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Re: Learning Part 1



#2 15-10-11 19:24:35

martin Williams
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Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Learning Part 1

The question bank is different for part 1 but they are on the Focus CD thats all you need. 

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#3 15-10-11 21:02:00

Dave_Mooney
Member
Registered: 08-10-11
Posts: 22

Re: Learning Part 1

What do you mean when you say the question bank is different?

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#4 16-10-11 08:07:00

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Learning Part 1

All the questions arn't the same as the normal learner theory questions as some of the questions are ADI related not learner.

Examples:  From what distance does a PDI need to read a number plate from when doing their part 2?
                How long does the ADI green badge last before it has to be renewed?

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#5 16-10-11 08:17:40

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Re: Learning Part 1

Hi,

I would strongly suggest that you do not just study the questions and answers on the discs.

You will pass Pt1 but you will not have given yourself sufficient knowledgebase for the Pt2 and Pt3 nor real life teaching.

It really depends where you want to be when you pass and how long you want to take to get there.

The publications I would suggest for your development and training are:
The Driving Instructors' Handbook - a must
Practical Teaching Skills
Instructional Techniques & Practices
Theory 1st Colourfile Presenter - or similar
Driving The Essential Skills
The Official DSA Guide to Learning to Drive
Know Your Traffic Signs
The Highway Code
CD ROM Driving Test Success (includes Hazard Perception Video clips)
Mind Driving
Roadcraft - The Essential Police Driver's Handbook
Roadcraft - DVD
A Driver's Guide to Advanced Driving Techniques - local to some advanced driving groups and this one a unique OBT publication

A good addition would be Ian Edwards caoching book - 'Can Drivers' Really Teach Themselves?'

And for some light reading John Brown's books (he is Johnp on here)


Remember it is not what do you need to pass a test, the same applies to you as applies to your learners, it is what do I need to understand to be the best I can be and pass my test on the way.

Just my thoughts and some will disagree.

Cheers, Brian


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#6 16-10-11 08:29:40

Hilary Hughes
Verified Member
From: Stockport, Manchester
Registered: 25-06-04
Posts: 1,232
Website

Re: Learning Part 1

I would suggest that there is far more than is necessary and could, in fact, serve to confuse so would cut out The Advanced and Roadcraft for now.

Just out of interest, how do others find the book on Mind Driving?

Hilary.


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#7 16-10-11 08:51:57

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Re: Learning Part 1

Hi Hilary,

The Mind Driving was well received, especially by our instructors who attended the Workshops we did with Stephen Haley - but like everything it is how you take action to use the new ideas and information. So as a result some refer to the info and book during lessons and some don't.

The same applies ot the 'Advanced' and I would suggest the Advanced Driving and Roadcraft Book and DVD if used effectively is crucial when training for Pt2 it can be very beneficial to pass your IAM and continue to work towards your RoSPA as you train for Pt3 and work on commentary the whole time.

If anything i would class these two as extras but worthy to have for further reading and development either during or after qualification:
Practical Teaching Skills
Instructional Techniques & Practices

Cheers,
         Brian


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#8 16-10-11 12:21:30

Driver99
Member
Registered: 21-01-11
Posts: 264

Re: Learning Part 1

The same applies ot the 'Advanced' and I would suggest the Advanced Driving and Roadcraft Book and DVD if used effectively is crucial when training for Pt2 it can be very beneficial to pass your IAM and continue to work towards your RoSPA as you train for Pt3 and work on commentary the whole time.

For Part 2, would you be faulted for Roadcraft positioning more to the centre line for a left hand bend to maintain view (if safe), against "Driving-the essential skills" advice to stay in the centre of the lane?

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#9 16-10-11 12:38:47

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Re: Learning Part 1

Hi,

To keep it short - positioning is the one area that causes so much debate in ADI and advanced circles- if taught correctly there is no conflict.

The positioning for rural roads is normally central in your own side of the road with very little opportunity to position to nearside or offside  with any real benefits limited.

You would not take up an offside (just left of centre line) position: if you have following, preceeding or opposing traffic or if it would otherwise compromise safety.

You have the following positions to consider: nearside, offside, central, safety and opposing carriageway - when you tihnk about it as well the DSA suggested normal driving position in town of 1 metre from the n/s kerb is seldom maintained due to actual and potential hazards and varying widths of roads.

Cheers,
     Brian

#10 16-10-11 13:20:24

Driver99
Member
Registered: 21-01-11
Posts: 264

Re: Learning Part 1

Thanks Brian.
I think I can control myself on single bend positioning - it's just when I see a nice S bend and I have this urge to straighten it out, rather than follow the lines!  :oops:

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#11 16-10-11 13:37:00

Hilary Hughes
Verified Member
From: Stockport, Manchester
Registered: 25-06-04
Posts: 1,232
Website

Re: Learning Part 1

Hi Hilary,

The Mind Driving was well received, especially by our instructors who attended the Workshops we did with Stephen Haley - but like everything it is how you take action to use the new ideas and information. So as a result some refer to the info and book during lessons and some don't.

The same applies ot the 'Advanced' and I would suggest the Advanced Driving and Roadcraft Book and DVD if used effectively is crucial when training for Pt2 it can be very beneficial to pass your IAM and continue to work towards your RoSPA as you train for Pt3 and work on commentary the whole time.

If anything i would class these two as extras but worthy to have for further reading and development either during or after qualification:
Practical Teaching Skills
Instructional Techniques & Practices

Cheers,
         Brian

I would say that the teaching books were more important.

Hilary.


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#12 16-10-11 13:56:52

on board training
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Re: Learning Part 1

Hi,

I would suggest that there will be many opinions but for me the books that are more important are the books for knowledge and practical ability - let's get the foundations right and then build on the finer details for teaching and then transfer that knowledge.

The driving instructors handbook provides good solid information for the instructional techniques and the other two (Practical Teaching Skills & Instructional Techniques & Practices ) I would suggest are good extras to have to expand on that.

Let's face it Roadcraft is the main book which gives clearer information about the system and why it should be used and yet the DSA look for a safe and reliable system to be used in most of the 12 possible topics and within all phases of the topics and as discussed in other threads, if you are comfortable talking a commentary and you have your systems in place where your words match your actions as a driver, you are making your life so much easier as you move towards the Pt3 training.

Brian




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#13 16-10-11 23:10:10

Dave_Mooney
Member
Registered: 08-10-11
Posts: 22

Re: Learning Part 1

It really depends where you want to be when you pass and how long you want to take to get there.

The publications I would suggest for your development and training are:
The Driving Instructors' Handbook - a must
Practical Teaching Skills
Instructional Techniques & Practices
Theory 1st Colourfile Presenter - or similar
Driving The Essential Skills
The Official DSA Guide to Learning to Drive
Know Your Traffic Signs
The Highway Code
CD ROM Driving Test Success (includes Hazard Perception Video clips)
Mind Driving
Roadcraft - The Essential Police Driver's Handbook
Roadcraft - DVD
A Driver's Guide to Advanced Driving Techniques - local to some advanced driving groups and this one a unique OBT publication

I take it these are for the complete course? not just part 1

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#14 17-10-11 08:22:56

daz6215
Verified Member
Registered: 07-06-08
Posts: 449

Re: Learning Part 1

One thing I would add to the list is read forums, obviously you will have to sift through allot of rubbish, but you will find the odd nugget that is worth it's weight in gold!

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#15 17-10-11 08:24:02

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Learning Part 1

In my opinion you can easily pass part 1 just using the focus CD.

Why would you want to buy stuff like Practical Teaching Skills and Instructional Techniques & Practices before you pass part 2 as it would be a waste of money if you dont get to part 3?

If you pass part 1 you will need

Driving The Essential Skills
Know Your Traffic Signs
The Highway Code

Thats all you wont need anything else apart from some quality driving lessons.

If you pass part 2 you will need

The Driving Instructors' Handbook - a must
A good trainer who will help you produce your own lesson plans or you can buy 1 of many publications.

I must point out that this list is the minimum requirment and there's plenty of publications which can help you with your training.



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#16 17-10-11 10:11:41

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Learning Part 1

Using a cd for part 1 exam is a complete waste of time because very little learning takes place. It's the very reason the DSA have stopped publishing Q&A for learners, as we all know they learn the answers parrot fashion but totally lack knowledge and the same thing happens when PDI's learn from a dvd.

I have had people for remedial training who have taken this route, it's usually taken them 3 attempts at part 2 and are likely to be on their 3rd attempt at part 3. They will have large gaps in their knowledge when training for part 3, I have people who don't know the difference between pelican and puffin crossings and who has priority at crossroads.

This is why the pass rate on part 3 is so low nationally, it's mainly down to substandard training and trying to pass the exams on the cheap.


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#17 17-10-11 10:38:50

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Learning Part 1

Learning part 1 by just using a CD can save you £600 or more which is what some rip off trainers charge you for just a few of hours in a classroom and a few publications worth less than £100.

Then they rip you off telling you need X amount of hours to pass part 2 at £30-£35 an hr. Theres no way they can tell how many hours you will need. Use pay as you go.

I know many who have tried and failed to pass part 3 after spending thousands of ££££ with top trainers so success is not guaranteed whatever route you take.

Please dont let any trainer talk you into spending more than needed for part 1 as no classroom training is needed but if you have the time the more homework you do it will give you a headstart on part 2 and 3 and hopfully save you some cash.

Its also a good idea to start taking lessons for part 2 while you are preparing for part 1(As normal learners do). That way after you pass part 1 you may be able to put straight in for part 2 as soon as you get past part 1.

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#18 17-10-11 11:16:47

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Learning Part 1

Blind leading the blind springs to mind  roll


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#19 17-10-11 13:08:16

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: Learning Part 1

Believing that you can learn the necessary skills to become a professional driving instructor by learning the Part 1 topics parrot fashion from a CD-ROM is akin to buying a Painting by Numbers kit from the local book-store and believing that it will make you an artist.


Grade 6 ADI/Fleet Trainer, SAFED Registered Trainer, Qualified BTEC Assessor

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#20 17-10-11 14:13:13

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Learning Part 1

Who said anything about just learning the answers to the questions? :?

Part 1 as any ADI who does not intend to rip you off will tell you it can be be done by home study only and one way is just to use the focus CD which has all the information on it such as the highway code and Know your road signs. This is a quote from 1 of the most respected training establishments in the country.

The choice to opt for classroom sessions with a company is purely yours, but please remember that you will pay for it. It is not unheard of for trainees to pay as much as £700 for the part 1element of the qualifying process.
As we've always said, it is perfectly possible to pass the part 1 test for as little as £25 to £30 . The test itself will then cost extra
Whether you pay £700 for your training with a company, or spend £25 yourself on the training materials, our opinion is that you have just as much chance of passing
The theory can be studied alone, at your own pace, using the focus series of CD Rom's, along with the official DSA guide to the theory test will give you ample preparation.

Why assume that PDIs would use the Focus disk for just doing mock exams? Even The Instructors Handbook says it should be done by home study.

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#21 17-10-11 15:03:35

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Learning Part 1

Quote:
Learning part 1 by just using a CD can save you £600 or more which is what some rip off trainers charge you for just a few of hours in a classroom and a few publications worth less than £100.

It's also not professional to say that other instructors are ripping people off, you can't make statements like that without knowing the full facts about the training course, and quotes from other training establishments mean nothing because all training should meet the needs of the client, it's not a one size fits all as any reputable trainer will tell you.


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#22 17-10-11 17:15:01

martin Williams
Verified Member
Registered: 26-06-09
Posts: 1,144

Re: Learning Part 1

Quote:
Learning part 1 by just using a CD can save you £600 or more which is what some rip off trainers charge you for just a few of hours in a classroom and a few publications worth less than £100.

It's also not professional to say that other instructors are ripping people off, you can't make statements like that without knowing the full facts about the training course, and quotes from other training establishments mean nothing because all training should meet the needs of the client, it's not a one size fits all as any reputable trainer will tell you.

I do know the full facts because thats what i paid and its what i got back in return and yes they where Ordit registered grade 6 Instructors. It was the biggest mistake i made when doing my training  paying £600 to learn part 1 all i got was a few books and a CD worth about £20 in total and 2 or 3 sessions in a classroom doing mock exams. I could have done exactly the same at home buying the Highway code, Know your road signs, Essential Skills and yes the focus CD.
You know as well as me most Driving schools charge a fixed up front fee for their Part 1,2, and 3 for ADI training with extra training added when needed. If you are not one of them you are indeed a rare breed.

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#23 17-10-11 19:29:24

Terrier
Banned
From: Greater Manchester
Registered: 15-05-11
Posts: 657

Re: Learning Part 1

Martin I would be very interested in where you trained because I don't know anyone charging those kind of fees for part 1. It may be that the course fees were split into stages, I know some who charge 3 X £600 for a full course but that does not mean the part 1 is £600, it's just a way of paying the course fee in stages.

I will be perfectly honest with you, I charge £150 for part 1 and this includes an assessment from your own home, delivery of a home study pack (value £85) and full support throughout the part 1 study which may include revisiting the pdi at home for further training. Part 2 & 3 are all paid by the hour using my vehicle. I also recommend starting part 2 training whilst studying for part 1 because parts 1/2/3 are all linked. All training is 1-1.

So surprisingly I do agree that £600 is extortionate for part 1, the problem is, after 26 years involved in training I know for definite that most people do not research it properly before handing over their money and many people are enticed by promises of big earnings and a dream job, which as we know does not exist.

But I go back to my previous post, people who do not get a thorough grounding in teaching principals during the part 1 stage tend to do badly in training and achieve poor grades in check test later in their career, I see evidence of this every day of my working life.


ADI Development Greater Manchester & Cheshire Grade 6 ORDIT Approved
Cardington Grade A  RoSPA Gold
DSA External Trainer Certificate for Instructor Training

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#24 01-11-11 13:36:08

kaf
Verified Member
From: Wiltshire
Registered: 05-08-07
Posts: 3,328
Website

Re: Learning Part 1

This comes back to an old argument, is study for part 1 an end in itself, or is it the beginning of a holistic process to produce a good trainer.

yes of course you can pass part 1 with what martin states.

BUT of you want to be a good ADI you need to understand methods of learning, methods of driving, much more in the way of legal motoring based legal information etc.

My part 1 training included all of this and made the transition into part 2 and 3 much easier.

We debate between ourselves do we train drivers to pass a test or be good drivers......................we need to ask the same about how we train ADI's.

You only have to see some questions posed on our ADI forums to recognise people who have had minimum training just to pass the ADI tests.

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#25 01-11-11 21:22:10

Barry500
Member
From: Ipswich, Kesgrave, Woodbridge.
Registered: 27-11-10
Posts: 491
Website

Re: Learning Part 1

In my opinion you can easily pass part 1 just using the focus CD.

Why would you want to buy stuff like Practical Teaching Skills and Instructional Techniques & Practices before you pass part 2 as it would be a waste of money if you dont get to part 3?

If you pass part 1 you will need

Driving The Essential Skills
Know Your Traffic Signs
The Highway Code

Thats all you wont need anything else apart from some quality driving lessons.

If you pass part 2 you will need

The Driving Instructors' Handbook - a must
A good trainer who will help you produce your own lesson plans or you can buy 1 of many publications.

I must point out that this list is the minimum requirment and there's plenty of publications which can help you with your training.

The 3 items above is all you NEED to pass part one plus the bank of questions and some free hazard perception clips which you can get for free online, the rest may be needed later on.

I do not understand anyone who pays a company to help them with part one it is NOT that hard, honestly.

I have read here that some PAY £700 are you sure, I am in the wrong game IF that is true.

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