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#1 04-10-10 19:43:53

apples69
Member
Registered: 05-09-09
Posts: 82

Signal timing - whats the correct method?

I was told to practice signal timing, I have been told to use mirror, signal, position, speed, gear, look routine and start the signal about 50-60 foot away, reduce the speed and change gear about 1.5 car lengths before a turn from a major road into a side road (so turn from 3rd to 2nd)

and the same method but change to 1st gear at the give way

is this correct?

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04-10-10 19:43:53

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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?




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#2 04-10-10 20:04:42

adi
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From: shropshire
Registered: 28-02-04
Posts: 1,231
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

Well i at 30mph i would check the mirror well before 60ft away from the junction, at 30 your travelling 45ft a second!!
Mirrors, well in advance to check following traffic and decide upon effective timing for your signal.
Signal, depends on the speed and what lies between you and the turn, too early are you pulling in? too late then the signal has no value.

As for moving off from the giveway, then yes 1st gear if you stop but if you slow enough and can see clearly before you reach the line then continue off in 2nd.

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#3 04-10-10 21:00:03

mon
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From: Lurgan Co.Armagh
Registered: 08-11-08
Posts: 418
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

I always teach get gear sorted 3-4 car lengths from junction,clutch back up both hands on wheel.Leaving it to 1 and half car lengths to me is just too close for learners and would be a real rush to get done with the junction looming right in front of you.


From Striving to Driving.....Lurgan Co.Armagh

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#4 05-10-10 06:43:17

apples69
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Registered: 05-09-09
Posts: 82

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

so at what distance would you start to reduce your speed (start braking) before the junction - is it fixed length for a major road into a minor road or a minor road (give way) onto a major road?

gear change 3-4 car lengths from the junction, reduce speed down to 5 or 10mph of your turning in 2nd gear or 5mph if your changing to 1st gear (give way)

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#5 05-10-10 09:29:14

boing boing
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Registered: 21-09-10
Posts: 86
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

so at what distance would you start to reduce your speed (start braking) before the junction - is it fixed length for a major road into a minor road or a minor road (give way) onto a major road?

apples ..  I think your looking for something that you already know the answer to.  The distance before a junction at which you reduce your speed will vary according to your speed of approach.  But lets assume your thinking of an approach speed of 30 mph.  What potential hazards are there?  What is the road surface like?  How close behind is the following driver?  How sharp is the corner?  etc.  There are so many variables that you can't have a rule, which is what you seem to be looking for. 

Turning from a major road into a minor road for example.  You will know if braking is too late .. the driver will not have enough time to change gear without coasting, they will steer wide around the corner, they will have to brake sharply for the car parked around the corner etc.  You'll know how much time your customer needs to plan for dealing with the corner safely.  You will know if braking is too early .. the speed of approach is unnecessarily slow, the driver behind overtakes because they think you are parking, the guy in the motability scooter is getting angry because you're slowing him down!

I think your trying to fit a square plug into a round hole at the moment.  Hope this makes some sense.  big_smile

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#6 05-10-10 09:37:41

Aspyre
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Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

If you genuinely don't know, Apples, one thing to help you think about it is on apparoach to roundabouts with large signs or junctions with countdown markers.

A good place to indicate - though it doesn't have to be to the nearest millimeter or millisecond - is around the sign or between countdown markers 2 and 1. So you check your mirrors, signal, then bring your speed down and get into an appropriate gear over that sort of distance and time.

I stress that this is approximate, because I can see the Pendantry Police gathering to pick holes in this suggestion as if it is advising everyoen to do it exactly like this  roll It is useful, I find, for learners with no previous experience.

You get a feel for the correct timing from that - the signal needs to give advanced - not TOO advanced or misleading - warning to others of your intentions, and the slow down etc. needs to be smooth and controlled and give you time to think how to handle the hazard.

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#7 05-10-10 19:39:57

apples69
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Registered: 05-09-09
Posts: 82

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

thanks for all your help - its given me loads of confidence just by reading your replies!

I just remembered my instructor told me to gear change 3-4 car lengths before the turn - obviously reducing speed to 5mph for 1st gear turn and 5-10mph for 2nd gear (depending on angle of corner)

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#8 09-10-10 14:20:04

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

I was told to practice signal timing, I have been told to use mirror, signal, position, speed, gear, look routine and start the signal about 50-60 foot away, reduce the speed and change gear about 1.5 car lengths before a turn from a major road into a side road (so turn from 3rd to 2nd)

and the same method but change to 1st gear at the give way

is this correct?

I think, perhaps, your trainer is being a little too prescriptive.  When you start signalling depends more on what speed you're doing.  It's more how long you want the signal on for rather than what distance.

The gear you use for the turn, again depends on the speed you're taking the corner at.  Not all give ways will need 1st gear.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#9 09-10-10 16:22:40

JJK
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From: Derby
Registered: 06-10-10
Posts: 5
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

Don't forget also to take into account any other side-roads, driveways and entrances to premises as you approach the turn point. A signal given ahead  of any of these road features is potentially misleading to other drivers as they may assume you are turning off before the intended side-road, so there is more to it than just 'how far' or 'how long for'.

So if you do see a factory entrance (for instance) on the way to your turn point and on the same side of the road, you may decide to put on the signal just as you are passing it.

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#10 16-10-10 08:27:50

looprevil
Verified Member
Registered: 17-03-08
Posts: 424

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

Think in terms of time rather than distance away.

When you look around before you approach something are you providing those around you the correct time to understand correctly what you are intending to do?

If so then great if not then ask yourself do (did) I need to signal and if I do (did) when should I do (have done) it.

regards

Paddy


smile  big_smile  lol  cool

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#11 16-10-10 11:18:27

driverpete
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 06-02-06
Posts: 457

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

I just remembered my instructor told me to gear change 3-4 car lengths before the turn - obviously reducing speed to 5mph for 1st gear turn and 5-10mph for 2nd gear (depending on angle of corner)

At the risk of sounding picky (Picky? Moi?) does your speed reduction come from deciding what gear you are going to use or are you selecting your gear based on the speed you are doing into the turn? Think about it.


RoSPA Gold
Retired RoSPA Approved Tutor
Retired NDAC & NDAS trainer
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#12 16-10-10 17:17:47

JJK
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From: Derby
Registered: 06-10-10
Posts: 5
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

DriverPete,

In my humble opinion speed has got to be considered first,and then the appropriate gear to match it. One of the reasons I started to teach IPSGA rather than MSPSLADA is because there is no automatic consideration in the latter of 'which gear' so the poor old pupil had to be prompted all the time, whereas with the 'System' they tend to use their brains a bit more, and on the approach to a turn of any description will think, "Where do I position the car, how fast, select a gear to match that speed, turn, accelerate away". Simples, as the meerkat says.

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#13 23-10-10 19:51:29

J450n
Member
From: North London
Registered: 13-01-10
Posts: 25

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

DriverPete,

In my humble opinion speed has got to be considered first,and then the appropriate gear to match it. One of the reasons I started to teach IPSGA rather than MSPSLADA is because there is no automatic consideration in the latter of 'which gear' so the poor old pupil had to be prompted all the time, whereas with the 'System' they tend to use their brains a bit more, and on the approach to a turn of any description will think, "Where do I position the car, how fast, select a gear to match that speed, turn, accelerate away". Simples, as the meerkat says.

I have seen this a couple of times on here - can someone tell me what ISPGA means??


There is no such word as can't

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#14 23-10-10 20:04:45

Aspyre
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Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

IPSGA = information-position-speed-gear-acceleration.

It's an advanced driving technique.

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#15 24-10-10 01:12:30

Adi1234
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

I prefer to use mspsl Myself. Makes it much easier for a learner driver to understand.


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#16 29-11-10 10:28:44

Barry500
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From: Ipswich, Kesgrave, Woodbridge.
Registered: 27-11-10
Posts: 491
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

apples ..  I think your looking for something that you already know the answer to.  The distance before a junction at which you reduce your speed will vary according to your speed of approach.  But lets assume your thinking of an approach speed of 30 mph.  What potential hazards are there?  What is the road surface like?  How close behind is the following driver?  How sharp is the corner?  etc.  There are so many variables that you can't have a rule, which is what you seem to be looking for. 

Sounds a bit like panick, don't stay calm, and think well in advance.

Good luck

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#17 29-11-10 10:36:54

boing boing
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Registered: 21-09-10
Posts: 86
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

Barry ..  why is your first paragraph just a copy and paste of my earlier reply?  big_smile

Just curious.

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#18 29-11-10 15:33:29

Barry500
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From: Ipswich, Kesgrave, Woodbridge.
Registered: 27-11-10
Posts: 491
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Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

Because I wish to hightlight and comment on it, if I did it wrong then it is my mistake.

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#19 29-11-10 15:42:33

boing boing
Verified Member
Registered: 21-09-10
Posts: 86
Website

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

Hi Barry.

Just click on reply with quote, it's on the right side of the page, and you then have this in your reply.

Because I wish to hightlight and comment on it, if I did it wrong then it is my mistake.

It's easier to see the quote your comment refers to.

Neil.  smile

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#20 29-11-10 16:21:55

Barry500
Member
From: Ipswich, Kesgrave, Woodbridge.
Registered: 27-11-10
Posts: 491
Website

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#21 21-12-10 17:19:08

Graham Hooper
Verified Member
From: Ashford Kent
Registered: 12-02-06
Posts: 223
Website

Re: Signal timing - whats the correct method?

I was told to practice signal timing, I have been told to use mirror, signal, position, speed, gear, look routine and start the signal about 50-60 foot away, reduce the speed and change gear about 1.5 car lengths before a turn from a major road into a side road (so turn from 3rd to 2nd)

and the same method but change to 1st gear at the give way

is this correct?


The timing of your signal will depend on what information you are gathering from behind (Mirrors) in front (forward planning) and to the sides (mirrors and peripheral vision). As an obvious guide line the faster you are travelling the early the routine has to start. So for example exiting a national speed limit dual carriageway start to gather information for your leaving at least at the 1/2 mile marker start the signal between /// and // countdown markers still giving yourself time to check the reactions of other road users.
In town the timing of the signal depends on what is going on but a rough guide check your mirrors add the words well before and then signal.
I query at 60 foot how much time you will have to fit the whole routine, maybe your trainer could give you a demonstration this often will help you visualise distance. As many people's actual perception of 60 foot can differ enormously.


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Part 3 Rescue a speciality, Fleet/Learner check test, Coaching courses, Advanced driving SAFED, ADI-CPD or if just want some advice.

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