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#1 06-02-10 17:37:33

sarahbmth
Member
From: Bournemouth, Dorset
Registered: 06-02-10
Posts: 3

Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Hi everyone!

I need some advice, I'm currently looking into driving instructor training (always wanted to do it but had to wait for my recovery from surgery before properly researching) and I'm worried about the points on my licence stopping me from actually being put on the register once I've completed the training.

I currently have 9 points on my licence, I have an SP30 which can be removed from my licence in September this year which is 3 points but I have an IN10 (driving without insurance - very silly mistake  :cry:) which is 6 points and won't be removed for 3 1/2 years! I've read that any convictions which carry more than 5 points in one hit are generally a no go and result in not being put on the register  :oops:

I don't want to go through all this work and then find out it was pointless! Can anyone help shed any light on the rules around this??

Much appreciated  tongue

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06-02-10 17:37:33

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Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?




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#2 06-02-10 18:29:22

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,596

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

You will find some useful information at http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … 1082132695

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#3 06-02-10 19:07:02

sarahbmth
Member
From: Bournemouth, Dorset
Registered: 06-02-10
Posts: 3

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Thanks for the link, it's really helpful! Am I right in saying that I could do all the training, pass all the exams and then be refused or would I be refused sooner??

Has anyone else with an IN10 got onto the register or not got on the register?? Anyone appealed and won??

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#4 06-02-10 19:21:07

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,596

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Before you are entered onto the register you have to prove you are a "fit and proper" person, this will include the CRB check which you will need to obtain before you submit your application form. The decision rests with the ADI Registrar, who will take into account any motoring convictions acquired in the last six years and/or your criminal record. It does look doubtful you will be allowed onto the register even when the SP30 which will be removed in September.


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#5 06-02-10 22:01:45

triplea35
Guest

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Before you sit any of the three parts to the  qualifying examination you must apply for and be accepted as a Potential Driving Instructor (PDI) In normal circumstances you first apply for a CRB check and when that comes back (about six weeks) you then submit the application form with the CRB number on it. I do recall the application form stating  to the effect that in cases like yours the application can be made without the CRB check being done. Presumably they will make a decision based on your motoring convictions first before looking at any other matters. I cant find anything on this in the Starter Pack you need to request so presume it was actually on the application form that I sent off.
In any event the Starter Pack with the info and application froms costs £5 and you do not have to pay anything else for either the CRB check or PDI application ( strange as everything else is quite expensive Part 1 Theory £90 and Parts 2 & 3 £111 each)
The only way you will know for definite is by applying and it  is not going to cost you more than £5.
There is a right of appeal to The Independent Transport Tribunal but I have no idea of the success rate.
I do feel that VandADI's comment of 'it does look doubtful' is a fair comment so I am not trying to raise your hopes, just letting you know the procedures to apply. 
HTH


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#6 06-02-10 22:21:36

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

You might find information on this link useful. http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … 1082132695

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#7 06-02-10 23:13:31

Loopy Lou
Verified Member
From: Berkshire
Registered: 03-11-07
Posts: 554

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

You might find information on this link useful. http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … 1082132695

Er...that's exactly the same link that Vanda posted earlier in this thread... :?


It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful...

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#8 06-02-10 23:47:21

Adi1234
Guest

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

I think the maximum is 5 points. But it is at there discretion so might be worth applying. The in10 is serious. But is not a problem with your actual driving. So you might get some leniency from that. I applied with 3 points for driving without due care and attention and I got accepted. If you are really keen to become a ADI I would advise looking into the industry carefully before committing yourself to the profession.It is a wonderful job But you are not guaranteed to earn 30k per year. Some pupils will cancel and fuel costs can increase. And there is no guarantee you Will get enough clients to earn 30k. How ever you have nice flexibility to work when You want to work, and you are in control of your own diary.

#9 06-02-10 23:58:40

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

I would just apply for it, you will get many different opinions on whether you will be accepted or not and there is only one way to find out.
When I applied just over a year ago I got my CRB in less than 2 weeks and took my part 1 within a few weeks of first applying.

Good luck with everything.

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#10 07-02-10 00:15:11

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Thanks for pointing thay out Loopy Lou, I was just Er........trying to help out. yikes  roll

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#11 07-02-10 21:18:55

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

At the expense of being labelled the bad guy...... should we be encouraging someone with a record like this as though they were "fit and proper" to try and get on the overfilled register?

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#12 07-02-10 21:34:06

Adi1234
Guest

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

People change and deserve a chance to prove they have changed. This person might make a excellent Adi. They need the chance to prove it. If they can pass all the hard Adi tests. They deserve to be out there teaching people.

#13 07-02-10 21:38:13

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

So no point having a selection criterion for becoming an ADI then??

Absolutely anyone..... anyone... could be an excellent ADI for all we know.. So unlimited entry on to the register?? No bar or restriction??

I can't think of anything which would devalue the profession more than this.

EDIT: When you have taught a ppl about how to behave on the road and they ask "have you ever done it?" or "have you ever had points?" then what message is it giving if you have a very bad record and then have to reveal this (unless you simply lie)??

That's why there is a guideline of 5 points (and even that is bad enough).. 9 is swinging the lead a hell of a lot.

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#14 07-02-10 21:43:39

Adi1234
Guest

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

There certainly should be a criteria for becoming a Adi. But The op stated That it was a silly mistake the IN10 conviction. and I believe they will have learned from that. And there Sp 30 will be removed this September. I am sorry If my previous reply was not specific. I meant in the individual case mentioned I felt that they should be given a chance.

#15 07-02-10 21:54:19

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

I don't think there are many people with convictions who will say "it was a fair cop and I was driving like an idiot" or "I was deliberately driving without insurance and I knew it" so I don't think the OP stating it was a mistake proves anything.. Anyone with a recent rap for that kind of thing is not really a ringing endorsement for kids they might end up teaching no matter how repentent they are.

The best she can be advised is that with 9 points she doesn't have much more than a cat in hell's chance of being accepted, given that 5 is the usual limit, but she won't know unless she applies.

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#16 07-02-10 21:54:51

confused
Verified Member
From: Milton Keynes
Registered: 15-09-05
Posts: 1,307
Website

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

At the expense of being labelled the bad guy...... should we be encouraging someone with a record like this as though they were "fit and proper" to try and get on the overfilled register?

Someone like this? That's rather a personal remark to make considering you don't know the circumstances behind the points.

See that episode of Police, Camera, Action or whichever, guy got caught drving without insurance because his girlfriend cancelled it without telling him as revenge, they took the car and made him walk home but took no action.
I had an ex-pupil who got caught driving without insurance as his girlfriend was too drunk to drive, a 3 mile journey from a country club where a wedding reception was held to their hotel and he gets done for it. Not all are clear cut and deliberate.

I would suggest asking the DSA if there was any point in beginning the training before even registering. It isn't whether we think it's worth it, it's whether the DSA will allow it. It's no good casting aspertions over someones intent or the reasons behind what they did. They have points, they wish to train, can they or not? As the ones who know.

I've written off a car, my fault. Does that mean I shouldn't be an ADI as I displayed bad judgement 8 yrs ago? I was locked in the guardhouse at Pennaly Camp - drunk & disorderly. We make mistakes and sometimes we learn from them, just like our pupils. It's the ones that don't learn from them that we should be worrying about.


www.drivingzone.co.uk
DSA ADI & Fleet

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#17 07-02-10 21:59:55

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

The person has 9 points.. THAT is someone like that confused....... someone with 9 points when 5 is the max that is allowed....... but nice try tongue

Are you also saying that we should encourage people who exceed that and who are one step away from a ban to be accepted onto a register already overcrowded with people who aren't in this for the right reasons??

As I said above, the best she can be advised is that with 9 points she doesn't have much more than a cat in hell's chance of being accepted, given that 5 is the usual limit, but she won't know unless she applies.

But if people ARE going to encourage her to go for it, I will add my two penn'orth if that's OK wink

I don't think someone with 9 points should be allowed anywhere near the register given the way things are at the moment.. Unless the points are hidden it will give entirely the wrong message to kids.. There are enough people who would make great intructors WITHOUT such a bad record without trying to get all the ones WITH a record on the register as well.

In my opinion.

And as for Police Camera Action.......... there are a hell of a lot more who come up with Oscar winning stories who are not sent walking and who get found out.. And what you did 30 years ago is being silly tongue .......... I got a caution for riding my bike on the pavement when I was 12 (my one and only brush with the Police ever)....... its a bit different from having 9 live points and wanting to become an ADI when the limit is 5 tongue

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#18 07-02-10 22:17:47

confused
Verified Member
From: Milton Keynes
Registered: 15-09-05
Posts: 1,307
Website

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Has anyone read up on that guy who has 56 driving convictions, 56! And everytime he gets banned he gets in a car and drives away, why? Because they can't stop him. He recieved one prison sentence. Points on a license mean nothing without the circumstances and that isn't our business.

So why on Safe Drive, Arrive Alive do they have a driver there who took a persons life on the road? So that that one mistake can be explained along with the consequences, in itself it teaches a lesson, screw up and this is what happens. It's a teaching point - "I screwed up, make sure you don't."

Yes 9 points is a little on the excessive side and yes the answer will probably be no, but that is not a decision for US to make, it's for the DSA to make. "Someone like this" is a personal comment based on facts you don't have. Try being impartial. I'm not saying that we should encourage or discourage, but asking won't hurt.


www.drivingzone.co.uk
DSA ADI & Fleet

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#19 07-02-10 22:24:12

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

I agree with you when you say it like that.......... but I only chimed in because people are NOT being impartial by encouraging her....... I just redressed the balance tongue

"Someone like this" is some one with 9 points on their licence when the limit to get on the register is 5.. "Someone like this" is simply a statement of fact: it is someone with 9 points.

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#20 07-02-10 22:41:43

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

People change and deserve a chance to prove they have changed.

But they should serve the sentence first!

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#21 07-02-10 22:42:46

DH
Member
Registered: 04-01-10
Posts: 154

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

......... I got a caution for riding my bike on the pavement when I was 12 (my one and only brush with the Police ever).......

The Police must be rubbish where you are!   big_smile big_smile

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#22 07-02-10 22:48:58

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Back in those days it was serious tongue

These days they encourage you to do it........ unless you are an adult on a road bike in which case you must avoid cycle paths at all costs and ride on busy ring roads and dual carriageways during the rush hour wink

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#23 07-02-10 23:00:58

DH
Member
Registered: 04-01-10
Posts: 154

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

But YOU mended your ways, YOU reformed, so who is to say that the OP can't undergo a similar transformation?   big_smile big_smile

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#24 07-02-10 23:17:10

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Mine was ages ago............ and it was something which is no longer a crime......... and I was underage (a minor).......... and the Police were playing good cop/bad cop because of complaints from some residents about the path in question........ and it is now a cycle path anyway...... and a caution is nothing like having points on your licence and being fined.. I'm not even convinced it was a real caution seeing as I was a minor..... it was a letter to give me the willies about riding on the path.. Three of us got them when this beat bobby jumped out from behind a big oak tree and we nearly hit him.

If I'd have wanted to become the local Cycling Proficiency Advisor the week after I was nailed, I think it might have been inappropriate............ especially if the acceptance criteria said you had to have a clean record.. Shouldn't think I'd have much trouble now though...... especially not with all the bleeding hearts supporting me tongue

Like Roadmaster said you serve the sentence..... then you can try claiming you have "changed".

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#25 07-02-10 23:22:35

colin166
Verified Member
From: Rushden, Northants
Registered: 31-05-09
Posts: 152

Re: Will my IN10 conviction stop me becoming an instructor?

Just to put this whole thing into perspective the maximum penalty for no insurance as I remember was increased to 8 penalty points and £250 fine in the early nineties to try and deter the then large amount of uninsured drivers out there.
In 1992 I was unemployed and never even dreamed of becoming an ADI but risked driving my car without insurance to get to a job interview about 30 miles away and was stopped in a roadside check.
For my sin I got the max 8 points and £250 fine when i was only recieving about £30.00 per week benefit and at that time drink drivers were getting fined less than that!
I would not do it  now and it did not make me a bad ADI I hope and when all said and done you could live at the end of a cul de sac in a remote village and get all those points for having a car parked outside your house in the street and not actually be driving it.

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