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#1 24-11-09 11:42:42

judy_83
Member
Registered: 23-11-09
Posts: 23

ADI TRAINING

Hi Guys,

I am a PDI who has recently passed part 2 and due to start part 3 training this week.  Unfortunately, I made the mistake of choosing one of the large organisations to do my training with, but I understand many people are in the same boat.

I think I am right in saying that the part 3 training should consist of 40 hours.  However, my trainer has booked me in six days, six hours a day.  Now my maths has never been great but i'm pretty sure that amounts to 36 hours.  Am assuming he will be signing me off as having 40 hours.  I understand that the part 3 is no mean feat and pdi's need all the training they can get.  Am I being naive in thinking that when i've paid £3500 for the training, I should have every hour i'm entitled to??!  Due to the fact that I feel ripped off and mislead, I have found a small local company that will sponsor me on a pink and train extra 20 hours.  (Although my trainer has informed me that it is his decision whether i go on a pink or not)!  I question this statement, but I hope   someone will correct me if i'm wrong.

If there are any prospective pdi's out there who have managed to find this forum before paying any money, please take my advice, find a good independant who cares whether you pass and doesn't just grab your money and leave you to sink!

I know I may be getting a little ahead of myself, but if there are any experienced adi's who have the time and good heart, I would be grateful if you could help me out with a list of everything I need to think about before I take the final plunge - car, insurance, tax etc

Any advice would be very much appreciated and good luck to any pdi's due to take tests!
 


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24-11-09 11:42:42

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Re: ADI TRAINING




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#2 24-11-09 12:51:33

jay666
Member
From: West Midlands
Registered: 15-04-09
Posts: 210
Website

Re: ADI TRAINING

Hi

If you are talking about the training company that i trained with then you get a lot less hours after you take off morning breaks and afternoon breaks and lunch hours and the fact that you are not having your training alone so when you add the hours up then split it into two accounting that other person then you will be even more gutted. After paying £3678 to a certain company and still trying to get my £300 back off them that i had to shell out for my green badge i am not happy either and wish i had also found this forum before hand but hey i learnt the hard way. smile

Jay

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#3 24-11-09 13:25:20

The Saint
Verified Member
From: Languedoc
Registered: 09-07-07
Posts: 370

Re: ADI TRAINING

Hi Judy and welcome.

You have found the forum and there will be plenty of advice coming your way from some experienced ADI's and ADI Trainers.

I won't go into too much depth right now but in simple terms, you need to look closely at the agreement you signed. It should be clear how many hours you should receive for each stage of your training.

Many PDI's get confused over the '40 hour' section. To qualify as an ADI, you don't need to prove you have had any training at all. You could just turn up and go for it! Not to be advised of course, but it's possible.

The 40 hour thing kicks in when you decide to go onto a pink. Then, you have to have had the statutory 40 hours. But if you go straight to part three and pass, there's no problem.

Obviously, all training providers will give at least the minimum hours required, should you decide to go pink. It's definitely your decision, not his whether you go onto a pink. As long as you have done the hours, there's nothing to say you have to be any good at the end of it!! And that's a topic for another thread!

A lot of companies will do training on a 2-1 basis, and it's quite legal. That's how they keep costs down. I always do 1-1, but that's my choice.

There will be a lot more advice available, just give it a day or two!

As for a complete list of things things to think about before taking the plunge, I think you're leaving it a bit late! You have more or less committed yourself now, but there are lots of books around and internet sites to help.

Good Luck


Did you think you didn't have to choose it?
That I alone could win or lose it?
In all the places we were hiding love
What was it we were thinking of?

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#4 24-11-09 18:23:50

on board training
Guest

Re: ADI TRAINING

Hi Judy,

Where are you based?

I take it the advice you are looking for is about going on a trainee badge?

I would have a serious concern if your trainer had provided you with training for Pt3 but then refused to sign off the fact you had the training.

As well as the additional 20hrs training once you are on a trainee badge, you want to establish what additional support, if any, your small local company will give you not only prior to starting with students but also during and after your period on the trainee badge.

Brian

#5 24-11-09 19:42:21

pip
Member
From: norwich
Registered: 30-04-09
Posts: 28

Re: ADI TRAINING

  Hi Judy
   This sounds familiar the same comp I am with ??
   Training for my pt2 my assesments for my driving upto now are approx 1 month apart this dont seem fair or right to me considering the monies paid up front


   Pip

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#6 24-11-09 21:11:55

graemeg
Verified Member
From: Johnstone
Registered: 02-10-09
Posts: 40
Website

Re: ADI TRAINING

Hi Judy,

The minimum training of 40 hours is what the dsa insist you have had before they will issue a trainee badge.

I took a trainee badge after 40 hours of 1:1 training and knowing what I know now it was not enough. By the time I passed part 3 I had probbably done more like 70 hours 1:1 training.

Once you have completed the min 40 hours and the trainer has signed the training record form you can go to any school you like big or small to sponser you on a trainee badge. But do not loose sight of what the badge is for, its not to make money, its to get more practise at teaching.
My advice (and I may get shot down for this) is to be selfish, use the pupils you get, get as much practise teaching as possible, but dont let the school overload you with too much, I have been doing this for a few years now and I feel burnt out if I have done 7 or 8 hours teaching in a day. And remember real pupils dont learn everything in  30 mins (like your trainer/examiner) even if you teach them well.

If you are going to take a trainee badge find out what the school will do for you.
What if they dont get you enough pupils? do you still have to pay a franchise fee? will they provide the car or do you get your own?
Will they provide the next 20 hours ongoing training before you take the part3? Is there somebody you can contact if you have any problems?

If you have any more questions just ask.

Graeme   

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#7 24-11-09 22:05:41

judy_83
Member
Registered: 23-11-09
Posts: 23

Re: ADI TRAINING

Thank you guys for the advice so far.

In response to the pdi having problems with trainer 'stretching things out', mine tried to get me to take my part 3 training over 6 weeks!  Will be very glad to get away from this company.

With regard to finding what support my sponsor will provide, I found her through the test centre and she has been giving me extra training for part 2 (cos my trainer doesn't even live anywhere near my area)!  I have found her attitude to be very fair and certainly would not believe in charging franchise fee if no pupils provided, nor does she want to lock me into a contract.  Very fair I thought.  She has also been available to chat to if i have any worries or concerns - which at this stage she really doesn't have to do.

The car is not provided, but box, decals and advertising are.  I think I have decided to lease a car, I know it may be more expensive but I like the idea of knowing outgoings and will save the buying for when I am qualified and have some money in front (hopefully).

I must admit I do feel a little overwhelmed by the thought of qualifying - not the teaching, just everything that goes with it.  Paperwork, accounts, advertising, insurances.....  Am terrified of missing something.  Another worry is tax, once am qualified last thing I want is the taxman wanting huge amount and me not having allowed for it.

Obviously this is all in the future and will be using my pink for exactly what is intended.  If any money covers part of my extra training and badge I will be happy. I just wish my training company had been honest from the start - 12 weeks to qualify?  Pleeaaasssee!!!!





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#8 25-11-09 09:54:32

graemeg
Verified Member
From: Johnstone
Registered: 02-10-09
Posts: 40
Website

Re: ADI TRAINING

Hi Judy,

I would not worry too much about all the other things like advertising etc your sponser will be doing that for you for the time being. Just try to get as much advice from others as you can in the meantime.
Leasing a car may be more expensive but check if the lease allows you to return the car should you fail part3 3 times(some do). You do not want to be stuck with a leased car should this worst case happen, not trying to put you off just make you cover all angles.
I would not worry too much about the tax either, my advice would be to open a extra bank account and put 20% of your earnings into it either weekly or monthly I have done this for years and have always been covered for my tax bill.
In my mind these are side issues, your most important thing is to concentrate on your training for part 3 and get qualified and as I said earlier you cannot get enough training for part 3.
12 weeks to qualify to me is just a sales technique to get you to part with your money. I did part1 myself then went to a local trainer for 2 & 3 it took me just over a year to do parts 2 and 3.

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#9 25-11-09 10:08:40

judy_83
Member
Registered: 23-11-09
Posts: 23

Re: ADI TRAINING

Hi

How dumb am i?  lol  Never even thought of being stuck with a car on lease if i fail to pass in 3.  Will put that down to influence of PMA (Yeah right!).

Good tip for the 'tax stash' though, thank you - will be doing that one.

I think it is very easy to get sidetracked at this stage by what car, phone, insurance, franchise, etc....  but I am very focused and determined, so hopefully should get there sometime before my retirement!  lol

Thanks guys for the advice.

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#10 25-11-09 14:37:30

scannermanh
Verified Member
Registered: 20-08-08
Posts: 206

Re: ADI TRAINING

There are a number of companies out there that do 7 month lease agreements for PDIs.
Used the most well known training co for all my training, even thought I had made a terrible mistake,
as you feel, but kept on, you are unlikely to get out of the agreement, I have never heard anyone do it.
Had my greeny for a year now so it is possible. Let your trainers know you are available if students
are not going to turn up for their sessions, I used to sometimes go in the mornings in case a student
didn't turn up, I can't remember the number times I got an extra session, but it was lots.
After each session I used to go back to the office and book my next one there and then,
I don't think the trainers were supposed to do it, but its amazing what a bit of arm twisting can achieve.
When you sign up with a driving school, be careful with what you sign. I know two schools local to me
that sign PDIs on two year agreements because they are definitely going to qualify aren't they?
well when they don't, and have to stop teaching when the pink runs out, they still have to pay the
franchise fee for the two years, and be warned they will sue if you don't, cost the last one I heard about, £4000.


Scannermanh the Muppet
nils

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#11 25-11-09 15:37:13

Loopy Lou
Verified Member
From: Berkshire
Registered: 03-11-07
Posts: 554

Re: ADI TRAINING

...I know two schools local to me
that sign PDIs on two year agreements because they are definitely going to qualify aren't they?
well when they don't, and have to stop teaching when the pink runs out, they still have to pay the
franchise fee for the two years, and be warned they will sue if you don't, cost the last one I heard about, £4000.

That's despicable  sad

As a franchisor myself that makes me angry that other franchisors can be allowed to exploit franchisees in this way.  :evil:

It gives all of us a bad name  :cry:

But judy_83 (and anyone else in the same position who may read this thread), we aren't all like that - honest  - there's lots of us who appreciate our franchisees and see them as a lot more than just cash in the bank.  :angel:

Just please, please, please do lots of research and ask to talk to other franchisees of whatever school/s you're thinking of joining. If the school objects to that, then be suspicious of them.

Don't sign any contracts without reading through thoroughly and THINKING about what each clause actually MEANS and how it could affect you. Get someone else to read through too in the same way.

Don't be pressured into signing anything "on the spot", not even if a "discount" is offered. It takes only a few seconds to sign something but you may be regretting it for years.

...if in doubt, ask here for advice...if still in doubt walk away...  smile


It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful...

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#12 26-11-09 11:48:37

scannermanh
Verified Member
Registered: 20-08-08
Posts: 206

Re: ADI TRAINING

You're right loopy, I found a great company to sign with,
couldn't have been more helpful and only charged full fee
when I was earning enough.
Was talking to another ADI yesterday, he signed a two year deal,
got a crap car that was refused by a DE for a test, has to hand over
all moneys taken then gets returned anything thats left after they
take £380 plus anything they can screw out of him, per week.
So be very very careful out there, if you act like a sheep you're
gonna get sheared. :evil:


Scannermanh the Muppet
nils

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#13 31-12-09 23:08:35

Lily-Anne
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 21-05-07
Posts: 606
Website

Re: ADI TRAINING

I am surprised at how little research takes place before anyone parts with their hard earned cash.  When I interview trainees I always tell them to get out there, research and talk to as many different orgainisations and companies as possible before deciding on who to train with.  I have to say that the bigger companies appear to have enough work, that they don't feel the need for the personal touch.

How is your training going now?  If you are still unhappy then make sure they know about it.  You can lease a car through some driving instructor orgainisations.  I have used Robinsons in the past, but they don't appear to have as many choices these days.

LA


http://www.centraladitraining.co.uk
BA, Dip Di, Cardington 'A', NLP Practitioner using coaching as a life skill.
http://www.aicoachingsolutions.com

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#14 01-01-10 12:14:12

triplea35
Guest

Re: ADI TRAINING

Reading this complete thread I can only say that I feel shocked and disgusted by the methods used to exploit PDI's by some of these larger companies. But why do so many people refer to a 'certain' company rather than 'naming and shaming'. Are people concerned re libel laws or is there something more to it?

#15 01-01-10 19:23:00

scannermanh
Verified Member
Registered: 20-08-08
Posts: 206

Re: ADI TRAINING

Reading this thread again, a thought crossed my mind, we show concern about
the PDIs getting ripped off, but how many pinkies tell there pupils that they're
not yet qualified and may not. I didn't and looking back, although they all passed,
I wasn't as good as I am now (or should I say was worst than now).


Scannermanh the Muppet
nils

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#16 09-01-10 08:08:34

michelle1970
Verified Member
Registered: 29-09-09
Posts: 32

Re: ADI TRAINING

Reading this thread again, a thought crossed my mind, we show concern about
the PDIs getting ripped off, but how many pinkies tell there pupils that they're
not yet qualified and may not. I didn't and looking back, although they all passed,
I wasn't as good as I am now (or should I say was worst than now).

Ive been on pink licence for nearly the six months now and I tell all my pupils that im a trainee, so far none of them have had a problem with it, personally for my own moral reasons I could not do it any other way.

As for the companies taking the PDI's for a ride, I couldnt agree more - in six months ive been provided with 4 pupils which has left me out of pocket, im refusing to pay the franchise fee now and will not, they can sue me - they have had enough money from me and wont get a penny more, the franchise was signed for 2 years, but if you do not pass your part 3 before the pink runs out then the franchise becomes void.

As for the training, I liked my trainer and he pushed me to my limits - but 40 hours 2:1 is not enough and neither is the extra 20 hours again 2:1, ive been paying for extra hours 1:1 with a pay as you go trainer and feel almost there now.  Also I dont think that doing your hours over a short period of time is very good, the mind becomes boggled, ive been training on part 3 since the beginning of March last year and only now feel ready.

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#17 09-01-10 10:35:19

graemeg
Verified Member
From: Johnstone
Registered: 02-10-09
Posts: 40
Website

Re: ADI TRAINING

As for the companies taking the PDI's for a ride, I couldnt agree more - in six months ive been provided with 4 pupils which has left me out of pocket, im refusing to pay the franchise fee now and will not, they can sue me - they have had enough money from me and wont get a penny more, the franchise was signed for 2 years, but if you do not pass your part 3 before the pink runs out then the franchise becomes void.

As for the training, I liked my trainer and he pushed me to my limits - but 40 hours 2:1 is not enough and neither is the extra 20 hours again 2:1, ive been paying for extra hours 1:1 with a pay as you go trainer and feel almost there now.  Also I dont think that doing your hours over a short period of time is very good, the mind becomes boggled, ive been training on part 3 since the beginning of March last year and only now feel ready.


I think that is insane to sign a 2 year franchise! Alot can change in 2 years, you may pass part3, fail a check test badly and get removed from the register, what happens then? The only franchise I ever worked under had a 1 month notice period.

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#18 09-01-10 10:55:25

michelle1970
Verified Member
Registered: 29-09-09
Posts: 32

Re: ADI TRAINING

It didn't really matter because I had no intention of taking my test within the pink period which makes the contract void, but still it's a load if rubbish, one things for sure I won't be taking out a franchise with anyone when I qualify.

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#19 09-01-10 15:35:44

graemeg
Verified Member
From: Johnstone
Registered: 02-10-09
Posts: 40
Website

Re: ADI TRAINING

It didn't really matter because I had no intention of taking my test within the pink period which makes the contract void, but still it's a load if rubbish, one things for sure I won't be taking out a franchise with anyone when I qualify.

Why? sign a franchise if you had no intention of staying with the sponsering school? Did you already know what they were like and if so why start the franchise?

Not all franchises are bad, they all have pluses and minuses, some instructors need the franchise just to survive, others do well without a franchise. Your last sentance is very, very optomistic in my opinion in the current climate where instructors with 10-20-30 years of experience are going out of business.

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#20 09-01-10 15:54:18

michelle1970
Verified Member
Registered: 29-09-09
Posts: 32

Re: ADI TRAINING

I signed because I wanted to use the pink as a training tool but in hindsight now I wouldn't have bothered a few freebie pupils would have done the job just as good but you live and learn.

I have another job and I'm in no rush, I don't need to do 40 hours a week, just a slow build up, if my circumstances change or I change my mind then I will have a re think, can those on franchise tell me, are they paying for support or for pupils?

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#21 09-01-10 23:24:19

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: ADI TRAINING

It depends on the franchise.

One thing to remember Michelle and that is that your own experience does not and need not be the experience everyone else has to have.. Thats a mistake a lot of people make..... assuming that their own experience is the same for everyone else.

You are fortunate if you dont need the work.. It sounds like you have been different to a lot of other people throughout..... what with signing for a contract which you knew would be void....... not some thing every one else will do.

If people DO need the work..... if they are doing this full time as their main job and not a part time venture....... then going solo right away is not necessarily the brightest idea.. It sounds like you are already totally anti franchise even before you have qualified..... and you don't know what franchises are all about otherwise you wouldn't be asking about ppls and support.

Franchises make up a large part of this industry and they always will.. A lot of people have had to join franchises during this recession because they couldnt get work solo.. And franchises have a big say in how the industry runs.. Now whether people like that or not..... whether they want it to be like that or not..... the fact remains thats how it is.. So dont dismiss franchises so easily except as a personal thing.

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#22 10-01-10 09:26:04

drivinginstructortrainer
Member
From: National
Registered: 27-12-09
Posts: 10
Website

Re: ADI TRAINING

I began my career on a franchise, which helped me learn the business and helped keep me relatively busy. But i went into it with my eyes closed and in need of full time work. With all the advice; forums, sites and other literature available, people can make an informed decision on which is the correct path for their circumstance.

I agree Aspyre, Michelle you are fortunate that you're in a position to build your diary whilst working in your current job. I believe wherever possible this is the best way do it. Why sign a contract for 1 or 2  years if you're optimistic, have a strategy of building clientele and aren't in a hurry. If still you struggle to fill your diary the franchise route is till an option.

If you have the knowledge and ability to teach to a reasonable standard, then you are in the same position as most other driving instructors. There are pupils that choose their instructor by recommendation, but the healthy percentage that don't, are just as likely to choose you as any other ADI. So if pupils that are looking, are aware of you presence and have the means to contact you, you'll get the work.

Good luck Michelle, stay optimistic.


Many years of driving instructor training experience.

www.thedrivinginstructortrainer.co.uk

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#23 10-01-10 11:32:01

michelle1970
Verified Member
Registered: 29-09-09
Posts: 32

Re: ADI TRAINING

Aspyre thanks for your comments, I was talking about myself, I have a friend who is going onto franchise because this suits her and her own needs, maybe one day my circumstances will change.

TDIT - thanks for your comments and couldnt agree more with what you have said.

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#24 10-01-10 14:04:48

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: ADI TRAINING

All i can say is i hope you read the small print on the contract very carefully.

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#25 10-01-10 14:13:06

michelle1970
Verified Member
Registered: 29-09-09
Posts: 32

Re: ADI TRAINING

I have, also I've had a solicitor go over it for me. 

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