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#1 10-05-09 13:40:23

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

HI all, I think I already know the answer to my question but I wanted to run it past some of the more experienced members here so please only helpful advice....lol

I recently passed my Part 3 ADI test (first time, go me....lol) and my Pink runs out shortly. Now due to my the guy whos' franchise I have been sponsored by's extortionate fees for very few pupils, some of them never even appeared....! I have had to wait to send off for my green badge because I had no money (bills came first). My pink will hopefully have only been expired by a few days by the time the green one arrives hopefully.

Ok, so here goes, as stated above pink is expiring/expired and green is still not here. Am I right in assuming that I cannot teach for reward even though the green is being processed?

If that is the case, why? If we look at other scenarios they are much more straight forward and this is crazy. Let me explain my reason for my thoughts on this subject.

1. A new driver does not have to wait for his licence to be in his/her hand before they can take to the road unsupervised.

2. A pink badge holder can apply for an extension to their badge a few days before it actually expires and still teach, whilst waiting for a response. Even with response of, "NO" they can appeal this decision and still continue to teach for reward (I think) until they receive an official response.

3. A newly qualified ADI has to wait (if pink has expired) until green badge lands on doormat......!!!

Where is the sense in these rules, when some ADI's aren't even displaying their badges (probably so they don't get the failures on their licence number)?

Anyone got any ideas why the rules are this way?

Thanks,

TDW.

P.S. Going to give the Franchise the heave ho cos the money needs to be mine now and I have acquired most pupils on my own.....!!!


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10-05-09 13:40:23

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Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!




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#2 10-05-09 16:26:00

evanadi
Guest

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

''2. A pink badge holder can apply for an extension to their badge a few days before it actually expires and still teach, whilst waiting for a response. Even with response of, "NO" they can appeal this decision and still continue to teach for reward (I think) until they receive an official response.''

This is true, though I would not advise leaving it till a couple of days before the licence expires. The reason is simple, the decision to give a second licence is under consideration and this means that should the 2nd licence be granted then it will be dated from the day after the previous one expires, ie you pay for what you are already doing. Plus you must consider the fact that should they stop you teaching whilst they come to a decision in all probability the pupils you have will go elsewhere.

With regard to the ADI not teaching until the Green badge arrives, it is the same as anything else, it is the legal requirement to display a badge if you are charging pupils for lessons. Exactly the same with taxi drivers, they are supposed to display their badges whilst they are working.

With regards to those ADI's not displaying their badges, that is the risk THEY decide to take, if they want to run the risk of getting caught its up to them. Ev

#3 10-05-09 19:25:16

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Ring the DSA they will very probably allow you to continue to teach on the pink without applying for extension, upon conformation of your pass.


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#4 10-05-09 21:42:30

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Well they are dealing with my green badge because I spoke to someone at DSA on Thursday last week but I have not done any lessons since yesterday and Monday is my Day off. I do hope it arrives soon.

I just think that it's strange that they know you're qualified and yet you cannot teach without the badge in place and as I said above, "New drivers can get straight into a car and drive".

Thanks for your advice people,

TDW.


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#5 11-05-09 10:17:17

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
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Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

1. A newly qualified driver is issued with a pass certificate. In law this acts as authorisation to drive a motor vehicle for up to 1 year. RTA clearly states that a driver may only drive if he holds, or is ENTITLED to a driving licence. The pass certificate entitles the holder to a licence.

2. Regulations permit the DSA to authorise a PDI to continue teaching on an expired trainee licence in the event of an appeal and until that appeal hearing is heard.

3. Passing part 3 DOES NOT automatically qualify the candidate to a green badge. The application to be added on the register is still being considered. Passing part 3 is merely part of the qualifying process.

If your trainee licence expires before your green badge is issued, 2 offences would be committed if you charge for lessons.

Failing to display a valid licence.
Failing to hold a valid licence.

I would just like to re-itterate.
Passing part 3 DOES NOT mean you are instantly elligible to be added to the register and hold a licence. Until all the processing has been succesful, your application to be added to the register is still under consideration.

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#6 11-05-09 11:49:23

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Just an update on this subject I decided to ring the DSA and find out where abouts my Green badge was with regard to being processed and I was told it should be with me by the end of the week.

I also took the time to ask the DSA man (Mark) if I had to cancel all my lessons until the Greenie came through and he said, "No, absolutely not. You can continue to teach on the Pink because we know that your badge is being processed". He also told me that if anyone queries my badge in the meantime that they can ring DSA reg and it will be sorted, no problem.

What a thoroughly nice chap.....yay.

I thought I was going to have to cancel a test this week......!!!


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#7 11-05-09 16:25:09

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Mark has advised you incorrectly.
And I'm pretty damn sure that if you got pulled over with no valid licence (except for an expired trainee licence where another trainee licence had been applied for BEFORE it expired and you have a WRITTEN NOTICE letter from the DSA authorising you to continue teaching whilst your application appeal is under due process) I'm cynically convinced Mark will deny telling you that you can continue lessons in the manner you have explained without displaying a valid licence.

Mark may have informed you that your licence has been processed, but he has no authority to authorise your giving of lessons without displaying a licence.

In fact, let me know where you will be teaching and I'll gladly inform the police that you are operating without displaying a valid licence in that location. If you want to accept Marks advice, and believe it is all the authorisation you need, then you won't have any worries about doing so.

I lost out on 2 weeks work because I complied with the regulations.....and the advice given to me by a Senior DSA official when I called to enquire wether I could teach since my pink had expired. He was quite categoric. Even though he was looking at my badge, (he even gave me the issue number for my records and he gave me assurances it was going out in the post THAT DAY), I could not give paid instruction until I had the licence in my posession and displayed in the car.

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#8 11-05-09 16:37:30

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Yep, you're right and I rung them back for confirmation (should have taken Marks surname) I spoke to someone else this time who had to go and ask someone else....lol. He came back and said, "No, you cannot teach for reward on an expired licence". Sounds like some people need briefing at the horses mouth so to speak.

Quote:

[img=Verdana]In fact, let me know where you will be teaching and I'll gladly inform the police that you are operating without displaying a valid licence in that location. If you want to accept Marks advice, and believe it is all the authorisation you need, then you won't have any worries about doing so.[/img]

Hmmm, not sure if this is a nice response or not....  :? I was only looking for help here! But hey ho, that's people for you.

Not to worry I'll just shift my lessons on a day or two.......tut tut.

Same again, thanks to all the people who provided constructive advice without sarcasm.

TDW.


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#9 11-05-09 20:16:51

KevB
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From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Hi TDW.
Let me assure you, no sarcasm was intended, and I only meant to give sound advice and for you to question the advice given over the phone.

I phrased my comment carefully, and with the intention of encouraging you to sit back and think, "Am I really prepared to take a DSA's processing clerk word, probably someone on a temp employment contract with no real knowledge of legislation, and be confident that I have authorisation to not comply with my legal obligations".

I feel my post has encouraged you to question again wether operating without evidence of being added to the register, or compying with the regulation of displaying a licence, and you have now sort and got correct advice from a senior member of DSA staff.

Hopefully your badge will be with you soon, and this enforced holiday will be nothing more than a distant memory.  Enjoy the free time while you can smile

It's also a lesson in dealing with DSA staff. Very often they give misleading advice or information, no matter how well intentioned they may be.  Get used to that, because it won't be the last time you need to speak to the DSA, and may well receive inaccurate information again.

This doesn't happen just with call clerks or processing clerks. Even some of the DSA managers give conflicting information to that of their collegues, or to legislation and guidelines.

Welcome to the world of the Driving Instructor. smile

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#10 11-05-09 20:56:51

Lewinpeter1
Verified Member
From: Morpeth,Northumberland
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 803
Website

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Hi TDW
Having read Kevins posts for a while,on a couple of Forums,he is not being sarcastic.
Always a mine of accurate info[even obscure stuff that noone has any right to know],his posts are always designed to help and not put down anyone.
IMO
Peter


Dont press that,oh @@##!

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#11 13-05-09 10:35:38

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Cheers guys, I understand Kevins' sentiments and it's hard to put down whit and sarcasm without anyone seeing it as one or the other. I guess I just don't know peoples ways yet.....lol

Thanks for all the advice, just wish some of you could ring the DSA and tell them the rules....!!

I am still waiting for that elusive green badge. Grrrrrrrrrrr......!!!

TDW


Things fall to pieces so that other things can fall into place.

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#12 20-05-09 12:03:17

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

If anyone from the DSA advises you that you are allowed to continue teaching for reward, ask them to confirm it in an email - at least then you would have some sort of backup if you were to be stopped.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#13 20-05-09 20:19:38

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Ooops sorry greenie came last week but I didn't teach until it came, 20 minutes before first lesson it arrived.


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#14 21-05-09 22:01:47

Martyn Bryan
Verified Member
Registered: 19-02-09
Posts: 38

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

So long as you write to apply for the extension , pay the £140.00 you will be able to continue teaching whilst in "appeal"

In this case the guy who gave you the advice WAS giving you correct advice, I suspect that the "letter" of the law is not as such, but the "spirit" of the law is, and that will always stand you in good stead. Has your cheque been processed? that is an acceptance that the DSA are working on your badge, and you can give instruction. those in doubt, you just need to trust me guys and girls.....

Martyn Bryan

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#15 21-05-09 22:08:47

TDW
Member
From: Yorkshire
Registered: 08-05-09
Posts: 84

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

All sorted now, but at least other people will know now. Yeah Green Badge is in my windscreen and new top box and door signs in place, let's go..................!!!

Thanks to all for your replies and help.

TDW


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#16 11-08-09 16:39:17

walsh
Verified Member
Registered: 29-02-08
Posts: 241

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

So long as you write to apply for the extension , pay the £140.00 you will be able to continue teaching whilst in "appeal"

In this case the guy who gave you the advice WAS giving you correct advice, I suspect that the "letter" of the law is not as such, but the "spirit" of the law is, and that will always stand you in good stead. Has your cheque been processed? that is an acceptance that the DSA are working on your badge, and you can give instruction. those in doubt, you just need to trust me guys and girls.....

Martyn Bryan

So hang on, you or Kevin right then?

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#17 11-08-09 17:02:30

Roadmaster
Verified Member
Registered: 04-03-04
Posts: 5,670

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Has your cheque been processed? that is an acceptance that the DSA are working on your badge, and you can give instruction

And what if DSA reject the application?   
All govt depts have to bank cheques on the day they receive them.  It doesn't mean the application has been approved or accepted.

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#18 11-08-09 20:44:08

Martyn Bryan
Verified Member
Registered: 19-02-09
Posts: 38

Re: From Pink to Green - Downtime...!!!

Not over till the fat lady sings, or in this case Christine...... and shes not fat just very nice..

martyn

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