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#1 17-03-09 21:21:17

wolves
Verified Member
Registered: 15-02-06
Posts: 130

WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Hi
I am a bit confused with the...WHAT,  WHY,   HOW. (i was taught with my previous instructor No1. and present instructor No2)
If for instance the fault was cut a right hand corner, approaching a junction.

FAULT....cut right hand Corner.

1.WHY......You did not look for your point of turn.
                OR
2.WHY.....Why is it dangerous to cut the corner.

HOW....... So next time we turn right i will prompt you on the point of turn.

Regards Paul



Part 1.....100% & 57  passed 1st Time
Part 2.....4 minors     Passed 1st Time
Part 3.....3 & 3         Failed 1st attempt
part 3.....2 & 3         Failed 2nd attempt
part 3.....3 & 4         Failed 3rd attempt
part 1..Round2..96% & 68% passed 1st time
Part 2..Round2..3 minors 1 serious failed 1st attempt
Part 2..Round2..5 minors Passed 2nd attempt
Part 3..Round2..4 & 3 Failed 1st attempt
part 3..round2..3 & 3 failed 2nd attempt
part 3..round2..4 & 5 PASSED 3rd attempt woohoo!

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17-03-09 21:21:17

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Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion




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#2 17-03-09 21:50:35

Doc
Verified Member
Registered: 11-02-06
Posts: 559
Website

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

If there are more reasons for a fault being commited then would it be a better strategy to ask the pupil why they thought the fault occured?

You might be surprised by the answers you receive.

For instance could they have hurried their turn because oncoming traffic were closing the opportunity or they simply turned too early?


Based on the answer given offer the remedial and take preventative measures.

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#3 17-03-09 23:14:56

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

The why depends on the level that the pupil is at. In part 3 context, for example with your right corner cut, the simpler expanation is more likely to be for a phase 1 pupil (they don't know when to turn). The Q&A type response is more likely to be used at phase 2.
This then follows that the how (remedial action) is then tailored appropriately to the level the pupil is at.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
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#4 19-03-09 18:31:51

wolves
Verified Member
Registered: 15-02-06
Posts: 130

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Thank's Guys

Paul


Part 1.....100% & 57  passed 1st Time
Part 2.....4 minors     Passed 1st Time
Part 3.....3 & 3         Failed 1st attempt
part 3.....2 & 3         Failed 2nd attempt
part 3.....3 & 4         Failed 3rd attempt
part 1..Round2..96% & 68% passed 1st time
Part 2..Round2..3 minors 1 serious failed 1st attempt
Part 2..Round2..5 minors Passed 2nd attempt
Part 3..Round2..4 & 3 Failed 1st attempt
part 3..round2..3 & 3 failed 2nd attempt
part 3..round2..4 & 5 PASSED 3rd attempt woohoo!

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#5 19-03-09 18:52:06

Trumper
Verified Member
From: South west
Registered: 11-07-05
Posts: 251

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Best advice get yourself a trainer who knows what they are talking about. I see you are on your 6th go. Who are you training with?
Best trainer in your area is John from Roadcraft.


O.R.D.I.T. Dip D.I
Fleet reg
A.D.I  Car manual
Cardington A , D.I.A Special test, R.O.S.P.A , I.A.M

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#6 20-03-09 10:24:45

mcculde
Verified Member
From: SOUTH HANTS
Registered: 30-09-08
Posts: 60

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Paul you are suffering from what a lot of PDIs struggle with and that is to be yourself. You mention the (R) corner cut. Why did your pupil cut the corner? Was it approach speed, coasting, wrong gear, poor position, wrong reference point or was it because of poor observational skills. Lets say it was approach speed. Then deal with the point in the following way. Paul what did you think about your approach speed on that last junction? Answer Was I going a bit fast? What do you think Answer Yes I was a bit fast. Okay what happened as a result of your speed. Answer I cut the corner. Okay so if we get our approach speed down the appropriate level for the junction what is likely to happen? Answer will we take the junction correctly and smoothly and not put myself in danger. Exactly now lets remember that for each junction from now on and continue driving. Examiners want to hear PDIs deal with them in the same way as they would in a normal lesson so be proactive as much as possible. Don't just sit and carp once a fault has been committed. So in the above scenario try this. Paul what are you going to do about your speed coming to this junction? Answer slow down. Good now what speed would be suitable here. Answer 15-20mph. What gear would be appropriate. Answer gear 2. Good so lets see what happens. Well done Paul good control there keep that up and so on. Be yourself and say what comes naturally to you. If you struggle with asking questions write down a few for each main fault and practice in the car on your own.

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#7 20-03-09 19:05:08

wolves
Verified Member
Registered: 15-02-06
Posts: 130

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Thank's mcculde  i will have a go at that.
cheers paul


Part 1.....100% & 57  passed 1st Time
Part 2.....4 minors     Passed 1st Time
Part 3.....3 & 3         Failed 1st attempt
part 3.....2 & 3         Failed 2nd attempt
part 3.....3 & 4         Failed 3rd attempt
part 1..Round2..96% & 68% passed 1st time
Part 2..Round2..3 minors 1 serious failed 1st attempt
Part 2..Round2..5 minors Passed 2nd attempt
Part 3..Round2..4 & 3 Failed 1st attempt
part 3..round2..3 & 3 failed 2nd attempt
part 3..round2..4 & 5 PASSED 3rd attempt woohoo!

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#8 21-03-09 08:49:02

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Hi Folks, interesting thread.  We I first took my part 3 I did not understand this either!

What - ID first this is what happened - be careful because every fault should be picked up, it is easy to miss lots, particularly if you are dealing (WHAT, WHY, HOWing) a previous fault. Keep your wits about you!

Why - Analyse Great response above, I would add to that to be very careful.  FIRST why did it happen the CAUSE- ASK! It could be
Control Skills (steering/speed)
Theory/knowledge (don't know how to line it up)
Situation (Parked cars into junction not sure how to deal with that situation)
Attitude (It doesn't matter no one was in the road, i don't care anyway!)

The post before suggested it could be speed? Correct, but take care that that IS the CAUSE because Identifying the incorrect could be a disaster for part 3, but more importantly for a client they will not learn what the need to sort it out!

Then the EFFECT - why is it a benefit to improve it? what is are the issues with the way they have done it.  The Conequences.

How - Remedial Action two fold,
correct the fault - talk through steering/speed, fill in knowledge, discuss situation, and discuss attitude whichever is the most approriate

follow it up - varify they understand by practice and tailor your level of instruction as necessary.

HOPE THIS HELPS!  big_smile


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#9 24-03-09 19:00:53

wolves
Verified Member
Registered: 15-02-06
Posts: 130

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Thank's for the replies.
If for instance you spotted the fault but did not know the reason, would it be ok to talk them through the next one. For instance cut the corner....( did not see what caused or figure out the fault) so talk them through the next one.
Would this fail a part 3 test.
regards Paul


Part 1.....100% & 57  passed 1st Time
Part 2.....4 minors     Passed 1st Time
Part 3.....3 & 3         Failed 1st attempt
part 3.....2 & 3         Failed 2nd attempt
part 3.....3 & 4         Failed 3rd attempt
part 1..Round2..96% & 68% passed 1st time
Part 2..Round2..3 minors 1 serious failed 1st attempt
Part 2..Round2..5 minors Passed 2nd attempt
Part 3..Round2..4 & 3 Failed 1st attempt
part 3..round2..3 & 3 failed 2nd attempt
part 3..round2..4 & 5 PASSED 3rd attempt woohoo!

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#10 25-03-09 08:38:36

mcculde
Verified Member
From: SOUTH HANTS
Registered: 30-09-08
Posts: 60

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Hi Paul
No it wouldn't fail you hopefully your pupil would do the same mistake again so you could correct. However since you are thinking about going back to prompting from independent then that would be regarded as taking control. In phase 2 it is Q & A as much as possible. If you see something is not good prompt if that doesn't work then back to full instruction but don't go back there too quickly. The word picture is failed test / test in near future so they should be a good driver. As I mentioned earlier be as proactive as you can. Okay Paul what are you going to do about these parked cars ahead. What might happen if a car comes. What are you doing regarding these traffic lights ahead. The pupil will have to answer and if they don't give you what you want to hear prompt them to give you the correct response. My advice to you is when driving to work  make some mistakes and ask yourself out loud what do you think of the timing of your signal Paul etc. I call it the John Motson technique. (Sorry John if you are reading this)

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#11 25-03-09 09:12:21

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Spot on mcculde,

Level of instruction is diectly related to your final grade because naturally if your level of instruction is not correct your student will not learn.

Just as mcculde suggested in basic terms use
full talk through for beginner
prompts for partially trained
allow mostly independence with careful q&a technique for trained/independent clients.

It sounds although you need some training on this, this is very basic essentials of Part 3 training. 


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#12 25-03-09 17:07:34

wolves
Verified Member
Registered: 15-02-06
Posts: 130

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

Thank's guys for the valuable information i will go out and practice with my daughter and myself .

Cheers Paul


Part 1.....100% & 57  passed 1st Time
Part 2.....4 minors     Passed 1st Time
Part 3.....3 & 3         Failed 1st attempt
part 3.....2 & 3         Failed 2nd attempt
part 3.....3 & 4         Failed 3rd attempt
part 1..Round2..96% & 68% passed 1st time
Part 2..Round2..3 minors 1 serious failed 1st attempt
Part 2..Round2..5 minors Passed 2nd attempt
Part 3..Round2..4 & 3 Failed 1st attempt
part 3..round2..3 & 3 failed 2nd attempt
part 3..round2..4 & 5 PASSED 3rd attempt woohoo!

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#13 26-03-09 20:41:08

tmg555
Verified Member
Registered: 01-11-06
Posts: 441

Re: WHAT, WHY, HOW, confusion

As you have already told me you have the Brian Stratton book , i found it a great help, have a good look at it and put into practice what he is suggesting, it may not be the answer for everyone but it helped me enormously to pass my part 3.


Les Hayes
Approved Driving Instructor
For driving lessons in and around the Reading area
www.hayes-driving-lessons.co.uk
Tel 0118 9626 473

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