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#101 04-05-09 18:44:39

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Angleson

Just to clarify, are you saying your were not happy with CT results, when conducted in Welsh, because the examiner did not understand the Welsh language? If the examiner didnt understand, how on earth could the CT be marked. And why go ahead with it?

Or did it in English because you had to more likely?

Hector

Both examiners were English speakers (although one said he spoke Welsh as a child) and I did the lessons in Welsh.

They were of the opinion that the result of the lesson would be evidence enough of my ability as an instructor and that they didn't need to understand me.

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04-05-09 18:44:39

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Re: ADI Gradings



#102 04-05-09 18:50:43

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Im baffled now   neutral neutral Is it just me!


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#103 04-05-09 18:57:08

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Im baffled now   neutral neutral Is it just me!

Join the club!

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#104 04-05-09 19:03:57

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Presumably  you were not happy with CT result???


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#105 04-05-09 19:57:02

jonnmedds
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-02-04
Posts: 154

Re: ADI Gradings

During my last check-test the SEADI told me at the end that I hadn't used the phrase MSPSL once during the hour.

Angelson, Im a bit confused, you say you did the lesson in Welsh, so how did the SEADI know that you hadn't used the phrase MSPSL during your last ct, thought the SEADI couldn't speak Welsh. neutral

Jon

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#106 04-05-09 20:22:45

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Presumably you were not happy with CT result???

The first check test  - I didn't know what to expect, but the SEADI was very polite and apologised that he hadn't understood some of the issues which happened en-route. He gave me a 4 although I knew that my performance was better than my P3 when I had 4/4. However, as it was my First c/t I was glad to have a 4 as others had been given an educational grade.

The second c/t - we had the SEADI and his senior officer. Again I'd warned them as soon as I had the letter to attend that it would be in Welsh. Neither of them were Welsh speakers although the SEADI told me he had been a Welsh speaker up to the age of about 5 so he reckoned he would understand enough to get by. I don't think he did but I could be wrong, of course. He just told me that I hadn't used MSPSL once during the lesson and gave me a 4. He was very arrogant and demeaning and started to argue with me about my instructions at two traffic lights. I was trying to explain what had been said but he'd already marked my grade as 4.

It wasn't my best lesson ever, granted, but it was in a different league to my P3 and c/t 1.

PS Jon - I'm glad you're picking up on these points. Exactly - how could he tell if I hadn't used the equivalent phrase in words. We do on occasion use English terms in a Welsh lesson such as "MSPSL" but I hadn't on this occasion.

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#107 05-05-09 13:48:51

Madhatter
Verified Member
Registered: 19-12-08
Posts: 132

Re: ADI Gradings

So... I'm down in Cornwall.
When I book a test for my students, the question comes up, do I want the test in Welsh?
So, if I say 'yes' what happens then?


Tim Moran - ADI Cornwall - www.timmoranschoolofmotoring.co.uk

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#108 05-05-09 16:08:34

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

There's only one way to find out! big_smile

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#109 05-05-09 19:08:22

Madhatter
Verified Member
Registered: 19-12-08
Posts: 132

Re: ADI Gradings

Thought of you today angleson, I have just come back from holiday in the Lake District. My student asked me how my holiday was and I asked him if he'd been to the Lakes before, he said, "No. The only place in England I've been other than Cornwall is Wales!"

I laughed and thought immediately of this thread!

Tim


Tim Moran - ADI Cornwall - www.timmoranschoolofmotoring.co.uk

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#110 05-05-09 20:15:19

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: ADI Gradings

Thought of you today angleson, I have just come back from holiday in the Lake District. My student asked me how my holiday was and I asked him if he'd been to the Lakes before, he said, "No. The only place in England I've been other than Cornwall is Wales!"

I laughed and thought immediately of this thread!

Tim

Where was your student from? If this is the level of education people receive at school, we'll have a tough time...


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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#111 05-05-09 21:22:44

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Thought of you today angleson, I have just come back from holiday in the Lake District. My student asked me how my holiday was and I asked him if he'd been to the Lakes before, he said, "No. The only place in England I've been other than Cornwall is Wales!"

I laughed and thought immediately of this thread!


Tim

That's sooo funny!:)

I was on holiday in Florida a few years ago and got talking to some Americans whilst queuing (as you do for hours in places like that!)

They were trying to work out my accent and thought I was German or French. When I said I was Welsh they said "you're not are you? The English accent is nothing like that"!!


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#112 06-05-09 22:14:50

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

When I used to work on cruise ships I worked with alot of South Africans. Americans were completely baffled by their accent. One conversation, I kid you not, went like this:
'I can't quite palce that accent, Are you English?'
'Nope'
'Australian?'
'Nope'
'Well where are you from then?'
'South Africa'
'But you're white......'

There was a stunned silence in the room following THAT reply....

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#113 08-05-09 21:25:17

evanadi
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

I taught a Vietnamese girl to drive, her English was impeccable, if she can be bothered to learn the English language I think people who live in Britain should do the same. Welsh is a dead language. I live in Wales, my father speaks Welsh fluently so does my mother in law. What a total waste of time. Get modern and speak English its the only way, nearly everyone is doing it. Who knows may even make company's invest in Wales. Evan :evil: tongue :angel:


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#114 15-05-09 20:38:01

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

That's even funnier than the one from Madhatter tongue

If it's not meant to be funny then I think you're in the wrong forum, Sir.

A dead language that your father speaks? Make your mind up!

This was a jovial thread - get into politics if you want to vent that kind of abusive attitude.

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#115 15-05-09 21:14:54

evanadi
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

Not abusive, its an opinion, people are allowed to have one you know Angelson. To you it may be worthwhile speaking Welsh to me its a waste of time.

If I want your advice on whether to go into politics I will ask for it thanks very much. Now you are welcome to make your points and I am free to make mine. Ok. Ev

#116 15-05-09 21:38:20

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

I think you mat be confused, evanadi.

Your comment, however interpreted, are factually innaccurate.

Not advise for you to get into politics, by the way, just an opinion.

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#117 15-05-09 21:45:16

evanadi
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

Even more confused now...............hmm think we best agree to disagree. This is one of those differences of opinion that could go around in circles, plus I have neither the time, the patience or the inclination to argue over something that I care so little about. Ev


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#118 15-05-09 21:48:01

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

That's even funnier than the one from Madhatter tongue

If it's not meant to be funny then I think you're in the wrong forum, Sir.

A dead language that your father speaks? Make your mind up!

This was a jovial thread - get into politics if you want to vent that kind of abusive attitude.

Angleson, I thought I'd quote you before you dramatically edit your post again.

Jovial thread???
I didn't start it to be jovial. Look at page 5 - you're not very jovial there. Or at the end the above post.
How can Ev's opinion be factually incorrect?????????????????????????????????????


Bravo Ev by the way.


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#119 15-05-09 22:51:03

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

I was of the opinion that the main thrust of the thread had exhausted and had developed into a less serious one but I was wrong.

To clarify the factual v opinion matter - Welsh is not a dead language. That is a fact.

I do agree with you Evanadi - there is no point to this discussion, but it was you who raised this particular point.

Johnnyfr - the edit button is there for editing until a reply has been made. We make mistakes sometimes, or think twice about the presentation - I'm not perfect in that or any respect.

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#120 15-05-09 23:05:24

evanadi
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

Oh have it your own way have every SE and De trained to speak in Welsh, or whatever language you want. I am sure all the test results will be greatly enhanced from spending all that money.

At least when people walk into shops in certain parts of Wales and the locals switch from speaking English to Welsh, those visiting will at least be able to understand them. Very strange behaviour if you ask me, but there you are that's just my opinion as well.

In the bigger scheme of things the whole debate is the size of a small pimple on an Elephants a ss. Ev

#121 15-05-09 23:12:00

johnnyfr
Verified Member
Registered: 06-01-07
Posts: 228
Website

Re: ADI Gradings

Don't hold back, Ev.
Say what you think.!


DSA ADI (car) -- DSA Fleet Driver Trainer [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk/grade6adi.php]Grade 6[/URL] -- ORDIT Registered Trainer
Level 4 PTLLS, Rospa Gold, NVQ Level 3 Driving Instruction, A1 Assessors Award, [URL=http://www.brake.org.uk]Brake[/URL] Road Safety Ambassador, DIA Taxi Trainer.
Visit us for [URL=http://www.prontopass.co.uk]Driving Lessons[/URL] or [URL=http://www.accufleet.co.uk]Fleet Driver Training[/URL]

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#122 15-05-09 23:22:00

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Oh have it your own way have every SE and De trained to speak in Welsh, or whatever language you want. I am sure all the test results will be greatly enhanced from spending all that money.

At least when people walk into shops in certain parts of Wales and the locals switch from speaking English to Welsh, those visiting will at least be able to understand them. Very strange behaviour if you ask me, but there you are that's just my opinion as well.

In the bigger scheme of things the whole debate is the size of a small pimple on an Elephants a ss. Ev

Even if I wanted to do all that, how would I stop all the candidates from wanting to be taught in Welsh and wanting to be tested in their first language? (I'm now, professionally taking my own opinion out of the equation)

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#123 16-05-09 06:15:44

evanadi
Guest

Re: ADI Gradings

Kevin Beecham ADI wrote:

As an aside, many of the Asian instructors near me teach in various asian languages, although they are check tested in English.

Not the same thing, Kevin. We live in Wales and ask to speak Welsh.

Who is the 'WE' I don't ask to speak Welsh, I am quite happy speaking English. If you are going to use plurals in your post, you must get the opinion and agreement of everyone you are assuming to represent first.

You said that my opinion was factually wrong, actually its not because its MY opinion, so to me its a fact, though to others it may not be agreeable to how they see things.

You can only ever give a post in a 'singular' fashion, it is not right to assume that 'WE' meaning everyone shares the views of the person making the post. All posts (except quotes of course), are based on an individuals, view of things and what they believe.

My father and my mother in law are both bilingual, however they speak English predominantly, that is until they meet someone (which is very rare now), who speaks Welsh. So you see, despite being brought up with 'Welsh' as their first language, they learned English and now use that as their first language. Its just a case of situation dictating decision.

Ev


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#124 16-05-09 13:12:18

angleson
Verified Member
Registered: 26-04-09
Posts: 55

Re: ADI Gradings

Hello Ev,

You have already mentioned that this would get us nowhere and I feel that you are right.

I will however attempt to respond to your comments as follows:

On the point of "we" I use the term when addressing a predominantly English audience with the intention of pointing out that the Welsh can and do exercise their right to be tested in their native language in their native country. I apologise if you have assumed the meaning "all of us in Wales" when I used the term. The rephrased paragraph would therefore read "We live in Wales and some ask to be taught through the medium of Welsh and exercise their constitutional right as a result of the Welsh language Act 1993 to be tested in Welsh as well".

On the point of being factually wrong about Welsh being a dead language, if it is still spoken in Wales as a first language then how can you express an opinion that it is a dead language? There are some communities in the Northern parts of Wales which have well over 75% of the population who are Welsh speakers. Even in the Southen parts of Wales there has been an increase in the demand for Welsh schools in, for example, Cardiff.

With regards to members of your family choosing to speak English as their first language, that as well is their personal right to do so, for which I respect them for it.

The point you raise about every SEADI and DE "have every SE and De trained to speak in Welsh, or whatever language you want" - this is not what happens or what is required. The DSA have to provide a DE who understands the Welsh language sufficiently to be able to give clear instructions in Welsh for the L-test and there are many who can and others who have learnt sufficiently to get by. Not all of them have to as there are plenty in North Wales who already can and do. Indeed there are many DEs in North Wales who have asked my candidates who have elected to take their test in English, if it's OK to converse with them in Welsh and give directions in English as they find conversing in Welsh easier with a test-candidate they know to be a Welsh first language speaker. It is specifically Welsh, no other language, that this arrangement applies to as it derives from the fact that we live in Wales which has it's own language.

Evan, I would like to continue this discussion with you but I feel that, despite the fact that we both come from Wales, our cultures are a barrier to the understanding of each's viewpoint. I have spent a lifetime both learning at school and doing business at work mainly through the medium of Welsh. 

My concerns are about my check-test, nothing else. The L-tests work fine.

Just to recap, the learners I teach are predominantly Welsh and on the last 2 occasions the learners I could present for check-test had asked me to teach them in Welsh. When I asked them about participating in English for the check-test they were not comfortable with this. As I was attempting to give a normal lesson during my check-tests I wanted to give the DSA sufficient notice that it would be in Welsh, only to be told that they did not have a Welsh speaker, but they would supply someone who'd been brought up in Wales but no longer spoke the language.

That's my slant on this thread. I just thought that it may have affected the SEADI's understanding of what went on during the lesson.

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#125 16-05-09 13:23:14

oldcodger
Verified Member
Registered: 25-04-09
Posts: 106

Re: ADI Gradings

Is this a good time to mention Anne Robinson?

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