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#1 08-12-08 18:46:11

TurkishPirate
Verified Member
Registered: 19-04-07
Posts: 13

Check Test Hell

Hi

so as far as i can see, its best to pick a role play or take a pupil? which one is it?

Is it like part 3, ie: unrealistic hell, or something sensible?

Also can i pick a test centre to do it at as i think the local chap has a downer on me?

and finally, do you just do a normal lesson, or do we have to include stuff just to please the DSA and then return to normal after....do we have to make the lesson boring and tedious in order to pass, or can we make them enjoyable like i normally do?

Finally, finally - as i have not been called for a check for 2 years, i feel its a tad unfair to decline me an educational. Should i fail my CT i feel a complaint coming on.

Help...

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08-12-08 18:46:11

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Re: Check Test Hell




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#2 08-12-08 20:47:12

Carlo
Verified Member
From: North London
Registered: 03-07-05
Posts: 802

Re: Check Test Hell

wow, there's slot of questions there!

I suggest you find a good local trainer and have a few sessions. Treat it as a mock check test and then work on your weaknesses.

In regards to an E on your ct. I know many instructors who have got an E after having to wait almost 3 years for a ct!


"It's easy when you know how!"

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#3 09-12-08 07:59:58

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: Check Test Hell

In regards to an E on your ct. I know many instructors who have got an E after having to wait almost 3 years for a ct!

I bet you don't!

An "educational" grade can only be given if the first checktest takes place within 12 months of passing the Part 3. An E grade is an option available to the Examiner if he/she feels the ADI fell below the required standard due to lack of experience.

Percy


Grade 6 ADI/Fleet Trainer, SAFED Registered Trainer, Qualified BTEC Assessor

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#4 09-12-08 19:24:45

Carlo
Verified Member
From: North London
Registered: 03-07-05
Posts: 802

Re: Check Test Hell

That's strange, because I got an E after 18 months from passing my part 3  neutral.  Even the SEADI said it wasn't my fault if the DSA were a bit slow with calling me up.  Anyway, was the kick up the back side I needed and proved him wrong 6 months later!  :evil:


"It's easy when you know how!"

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#5 09-12-08 19:40:40

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: Check Test Hell

On your first check test, if the lesson was not up to the standard required, this will be graded an "E".  On subsequent check tests, any sub-standard lessons will be graded either 3,2 or 1.

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#6 09-12-08 19:46:54

evanadi
Guest

Re: Check Test Hell

''Should i fail my CT i feel a complaint coming on.''


What are you going to complain about?, you can either do the job or you can't. If you have been doing it for two years, you must have some sort of idea about what you are supposed to be doing.

I really don't see that you have any room for complaint. It states quite clearly when you pass your part 3 that you will be expected to present yourself for a check test. Its part of the deal, whether it takes 6 months or two years is immaterial.

Ev

#7 09-12-08 19:53:20

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: Check Test Hell

Following on from Evan's post, if an ADI has been on the register for more than 12 months without an Educational visit (as in TurkishPirate's case) it is reasonable to assume the ADI has gained enough experience in this time and in these kind of circumstances, the ADI should be assessed according to the criteria and given the appropriate grade, therefore you will have no grounds for complaint I'm afraid!

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#8 09-12-08 19:59:41

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

Hi

so as far as i can see, its best to pick a role play or take a pupil? which one is it?

Is it like part 3, ie: unrealistic hell, or something sensible?

Also can i pick a test centre to do it at as i think the local chap has a downer on me?

and finally, do you just do a normal lesson, or do we have to include stuff just to please the DSA and then return to normal after....do we have to make the lesson boring and tedious in order to pass, or can we make them enjoyable like i normally do?

Finally, finally - as i have not been called for a check for 2 years, i feel its a tad unfair to decline me an educational. Should i fail my CT i feel a complaint coming on.

Help...




I always go with a pupil. If you go for role play it can feel "unreal". But it's just a matter of opinion.

Yes you can do C/T at a different T/C.

If your taking a pupil, do a normal lesson. Follow on from last lesson.

You should have a C/T within 12 months of qualifying. If not you should be graded on your first C/T. Neither is written in blood (or even ink). It is entirely possible to get an E on first C/T no matter how long it is since you qualified. It is equally possible you will be graded, if so you would have no grounds on which to complain.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#9 11-12-08 21:25:45

copsecavaliers
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 29-04-06
Posts: 150
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

Personally I would always take a pupil, otherwise it might feel like part 3 all over again.

Alex

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#10 12-12-08 11:26:02

Mutley
Verified Member
From: Aylesbury,Bucks
Registered: 31-03-08
Posts: 33

Re: Check Test Hell

Had my first Check Test within 10 months of passing part 3.

I was graded a 5.

I just treated the Check Test as a normal lesson. If your doing your job correctly you should have nothing to worry about!


DSA Grade 6 Adi,IAM Masters and Senior Observer,RoSPA Gold,Local Authority Fleet Trainer and Assessor, NDAC on Road Trainer.

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#11 12-12-08 13:48:01

empyell
Verified Member
Registered: 30-12-06
Posts: 232

Re: Check Test Hell

If your doing your job correctly you should have nothing to worry about!

If the OP is anything like me, I think that's the concern. I've got my first one in January, it'll be 16 months from my part 3. I *think* I've been doing my job correctly - people have been learning, and passing tests - but there's still that niggling doubt at the back of your brain.
I'm taking the view that I've just got to get through it, then once I've done one I'll know what it's all about. Hopefully it'll go fine, but if, Heaven forbid, it's a 1, 2, or 3, then I've got to take it on the chin and come out the other side.
Hopefully it won't come to that.

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#12 12-12-08 18:50:41

Dux
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 12-09-07
Posts: 985
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

empyell, couldn't agree more, I qualified last Feb, first one in Jan, like you I think I'm doing all the right things, I try to make my lessons interesting and pick up most of their faults and rectify them, not always in the rigid way I was taught but in my own way, which is what my niggling doubt is, if I don't fit into the DSA box on fault finding and remedial action, then what?


Part 1 Passed April 07

Part 2 Passed June 07 3 Minors

Part 3 Delayed Success 05/12/07    3-3

Part 3 Passed 20/02/08      5-5

Diamond Advanced Driver 03/06/08

www.polepositiondrivertraining.co.uk

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#13 12-12-08 19:04:52

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

..............not always in the rigid way I was taught but in my own way, which is what my niggling doubt is, if I don't fit into the DSA box on fault finding and remedial action, then what?

Breaking away from the rigidity of part 3 is good. SE doesn't want to see a robot. A good rapport with your pupils is one of the keys to a good grade wink


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#14 12-12-08 20:02:05

evanadi
Guest

Re: Check Test Hell

Hi Dux and empyell,

check your emails as I have sent info for your forthcoming check tests, read, digest and learn from it. Good luck. Ev

#15 12-12-08 20:48:09

Dux
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 12-09-07
Posts: 985
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

Cheers Ev, you're a star, I'll print it out and have a good read over the coming month.


Part 1 Passed April 07

Part 2 Passed June 07 3 Minors

Part 3 Delayed Success 05/12/07    3-3

Part 3 Passed 20/02/08      5-5

Diamond Advanced Driver 03/06/08

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#16 12-12-08 22:36:05

empyell
Verified Member
Registered: 30-12-06
Posts: 232

Re: Check Test Hell

My thoughts exactly - cheers Ev

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#17 16-12-08 11:54:37

neil8181
Verified Member
From: Accrington
Registered: 03-11-07
Posts: 645

Re: Check Test Hell

The biggest tip I can give for a 1st time CT is, not to fear it.

If you get a E, no problem, just get retraining. I think you may supprise yourself with how good you are.

I wouldn't recommend retraining before your 1st attmept though.


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#18 13-01-09 14:03:38

walsh
Verified Member
Registered: 29-02-08
Posts: 241

Re: Check Test Hell

I've never finished being re-trained and yet I've just had a grade 3 after my first CT was an educational.

Think I might start looking for another job.

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#19 13-01-09 19:09:08

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

Hi Walsh,

Why did you get a 3? What did the SE say in his debrief? Was the reason for the low grade for the same things as on your 1st check test?

If it's for the same reasons and your trainer hasn't helped you fix them I would be asking a few questions of him....

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#20 14-01-09 07:09:32

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

Heres my interpretations of the Regulations and DSA Guidelines.

There is no legal REQUIREMENT for the examiner to award an Educational, even if the checktest is within twelve months.
However, the law does permit the Registrar to authorise the DSA to have Guidelines that allow the examiner to award an Educational for the first checktest. Indeed those Guidelines say the examiner SHOULD award an Educational in those circumstances where the standard was not sufficient to award a 4 or above.

Many SE/DTAMS will actually still be willing to award an Educational Grade, for any 1st checktest, even if it was several years after the ADI qualified.

On my first check test, the Examiner made it quite clear at the beginning that he would award an Educational if my standard fell below what was required as this was my first checktest despite it being 2 years since I qualified. Thankfully, I was graded.

Technically, an ADI could actually have his licence removed if the grade was below 4, even on his 1st checktest (although I've never read anything to suggest this has ever occurred).

It is the Registrar that permits the DSA to offer 3 checktests, each with a higher graded examiner, before the Registrar would be willing to consider removing the ADI from the register.

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#21 15-01-09 14:24:11

walsh
Verified Member
Registered: 29-02-08
Posts: 241

Re: Check Test Hell

christhedrummer wrote:

Hi Walsh,

Why did you get a 3? What did the SE say in his debrief? Was the reason for the low grade for the same things as on your 1st check test?

If it's for the same reasons and your trainer hasn't helped you fix them I would be asking a few questions of him....
[/quot


Think I know where Ive gone wrong. I moved away from the phase 1 and phase 2 part of part 3 and mixed and matched phase 1 and 2 together, where as the pup I used was more phase 2.

I am right in thinking phase 1 is instructing and phase 2 is Q&A?

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#22 15-01-09 22:10:03

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

Think I know where Ive gone wrong. I moved away from the phase 1 and phase 2 part of part 3 and mixed and matched phase 1 and 2 together, where as the pup I used was more phase 2.

I am right in thinking phase 1 is instructing and phase 2 is Q&A?

A check test is not the same as a part3 test.

There is nothing wrong with "mixing and matching" if that is what the pupil needs. The skill is doing it at the right time as appropriate to the needs of the pupil and the situation. The C/T does not have the same clearly defined and rigid structure of part 3. Put simply you must demonstrate control of the lesson and learning must take place. Over instruction on a C/T would not normally, in itself, be enough to get a low grade (though it would certainly prevent you from getting a high grade) It is the overall performance that is looked at.

• method, clarity, adequacy and correctness of instruction

• the observation and proper correction of the pupil’s errors

• manner, patience, tact and ability to inspire confidence

A weakness in the methodology of instruction would certainly be brought to your attention in the de brief, but there are likely to be other elements that were, in the SE's opinion, unsatisfactory as well.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

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“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#23 16-01-09 10:54:13

walsh
Verified Member
Registered: 29-02-08
Posts: 241

Re: Check Test Hell

Well the SE said at the end they didn't know what the pupil had learnt because I did all the talking. Not helped by my messing up how long I had.

I got graded 4 for fault finding and 3 on both parts of explaining and putting right. Trouble is the only real fault my pupil did was miss out the blind spot. Normally he drives like a mad man and I thought thats good as I can slow him down in hazardous situations, but no he drove sensibly.

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#24 16-01-09 21:28:03

tony adi
Verified Member
From: Selby
Registered: 12-05-08
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: Check Test Hell

Well the SE said at the end they didn't know what the pupil had learnt

Learning did not take place, therefore the required standard was not acceptable. That's why you got a 3. If learning had taken place, you would (probably) have got a 4 even though the method of instruction was inappropriate.

As I said before a good rapport with your pupil helps, get them talking. Show SE that learning is taking place.


www.selbydriving.co.uk

12.gif

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy
state of things.”
~ Winston Churchill

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#25 16-01-09 21:51:20

standon11
Verified Member
From: doncaster
Registered: 30-11-06
Posts: 632

Re: Check Test Hell

just to mention about role play or pupil scenario.it's all up to the individual what they want to do.i decided to do role play back in june when i took my check test & did not regret it.i was graded a 5 which i was thoroughly pleased with that outcome.i didn't want the hassle of the possibility of a very nervous pupil aswell as a nervous instructor so i decided to go alone.the role play is nowt like the part 3 it's much much easier.personally i found the seadi very realistic in role play,faults were as a normal pupil would make but much easier to spot.i found the part 3 very unrealistic but i found role play on check test far more relaxing & the seadi wasn't trying to pull stupid faults every few seconds & trying to tie me in knots,just seemed like a normal lesson.

who cares if the seadi prefers to see you with a pupil,i'll do role play every time,makes them work harder,they have to asses you whilst marking you down aswell,more difficult for them than sat in the back with the pen & paper in my opinion.

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