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#51 31-01-09 11:58:23

KevB
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31-01-09 11:58:23

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Re: a2om - btec driving science



#52 31-01-09 16:19:11

Aspyre
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Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: a2om - btec driving science

oh BBC news on tv - not the bbc web site news !!

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#53 02-02-09 09:01:20

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: a2om - btec driving science

oh BBC news on tv - not the bbc web site news !!

So what?  All Keith said was that it was on teh BBC News.  Which it was!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#54 07-02-09 02:04:46

gday
Verified Member
From: Oxfordshire
Registered: 27-04-05
Posts: 531
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Re: a2om - btec driving science

So nearly 4 months on from the original post, how are you all doing, has anybody got any pupils undertaking this course yet?

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#55 07-02-09 09:40:43

Aspyre
Member
Registered: 17-01-09
Posts: 2,754

Re: a2om - btec driving science

"So what?  All Keith said was that it was on teh BBC News.  Which it was!"

!!!!! What is your problem ?? i didnt see it all right.. what is it with certin people on here ??

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#56 07-02-09 09:45:41

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: a2om - btec driving science

Hey boys calm down, calm down, looks like just a misunderstanding - have a good week-end  smile

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#57 09-02-09 06:10:48

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: a2om - btec driving science

"So what?  All Keith said was that it was on teh BBC News.  Which it was!"

!!!!! What is your problem ?? i didnt see it all right.. what is it with certin people on here ??

My problem?  No problem at all!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#58 05-03-09 23:52:51

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: a2om - btec driving science

I did the course today and I LIKE IT. I have one Oxford student and another on the way which I think will be very interested.
Since this thread is going back to November, what has been your take up on the course? Tony (BRL) have all the initial enquiries materialised? What's your success rate so far?


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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#59 06-03-09 18:54:50

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: a2om - btec driving science

What happens on the course?  How is it presented and delivered?


At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

http://www.myspace.com/scottmacalister/

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#60 07-03-09 01:35:10

gday
Verified Member
From: Oxfordshire
Registered: 27-04-05
Posts: 531
Website

Re: a2om - btec driving science

So nearly 4 months on from the original post, how are you all doing, has anybody got any pupils undertaking this course yet?

So another month on and only one reply, anybody else getting any work fron this?

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#61 07-03-09 09:36:24

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: a2om - btec driving science

I have not had any take-up for the course yet, the biggest drawback being the cost.
The initial cost is £25, this allows them access to the e learning suite which is a fantastic tool in my opinion, everything and more to help you through the theory test.
Upon completion of the BTEC the balance of £150 is paid, so total cost of course is £175.
The syllabus does include post-test (equivallent to pass plus) but like the pass plus, needs to be paid for seperately
So that is another £150+ on top of what they have already paid out for lessons and the BTEC itself.  The a2om staff themselves are contacting pupils who registered for the e learning suite to promote the BTEC and get them to commit to the course, but as yet, none of mine have signed the dotted line.
What my  pupils seem to be doing is going for the £25 e learning suite without the committment of the whole BTEC course.
I just find it difficult for my pupils to pay for lessons, let alone anything extra on top of them   roll

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#62 07-03-09 12:25:50

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: a2om - btec driving science

Simliar to Vanda.

Im in contact with some local representatives at the moment, but the wheels move very slowly and I can only donate a very small amount of what free time I have to promoting the course. I have further meetings to arrange, so its making the appointments, finding the time and waiting for responses.

Funding seems to be the biggest hurdle, and this profession has been mislead for many years, so getting people to realise that spending now will save later is not easy.

I'm going to be in contact with a2om soon just to see how the recruitment side is going. My worry is that without the instructors with the time available to deliver the course theres little point in adverising too much, the last thing you need is a high demand but no one to deliver the courses. Its finding the balance.

So as yet no ones taking the course, but its understandable considering how things are moving.

The package is 1st class, and using it myself Ive found ive learnt quite alot just running through the e-learning, and programs aside of the BTEC course itself.


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#63 07-03-09 12:29:29

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: a2om - btec driving science

Hi Vanda,

I think you may have misunderstood the BTEC pricing structure. (Unless something has changed and I am not aware). The TOTAL cost of the entire BTEC (including Module 5 - Post Test) is £175.00. There is no extra cost involved with the post test training as this is part and parcel of the BTEC.

The £175 can be paid up front if the entire BTEC is required. The software "learning suite" (already included in the BTEC price) can be purchased seperately if desired.

I believe that BRL has so much demand for the BTEC that he doesn't have enough instructors and is currently looking for many more.

percy




Grade 6 ADI/Fleet Trainer, SAFED Registered Trainer, Qualified BTEC Assessor

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#64 07-03-09 12:48:03

GreenLight
Verified Member
From: West Devon / East Cornwall
Registered: 26-02-04
Posts: 227
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Re: a2om - btec driving science

Afternoon Percy,

Thanks for clarifying that. 5 modules for £175 is my understanding too.

I have my training day coming up the week after next.

Anyone else going to Leeds on Wednesday 18th March?

Larry

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#65 07-03-09 14:27:12

Target
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From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
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Re: a2om - btec driving science

I thought vanda was saying that to complete the course a customer would need to pay for post test training.

Although theres no specification, you would be considering at least 6 hours.

At the moment pass plus take up is only around 10%.


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#66 07-03-09 14:27:58

Target
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From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
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Re: a2om - btec driving science

I believe that BRL has so much demand for the BTEC that he doesn't have enough instructors and is currently looking for many more.

That would be excellent news for road safety.


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#67 07-03-09 15:02:19

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: a2om - btec driving science

Hi Vanda,

I think you may have misunderstood the BTEC pricing structure. (Unless something has changed and I am not aware). The TOTAL cost of the entire BTEC (including Module 5 - Post Test) is £175.00. There is no extra cost involved with the post test training as this is part and parcel of the BTEC.

The £175 can be paid up front if the entire BTEC is required. The software "learning suite" (already included in the BTEC price) can be purchased seperately if desired.

I believe that BRL has so much demand for the BTEC that he doesn't have enough instructors and is currently looking for many more.

percy

Although the £175 does include post test modules, the ADI still needs to be paid to deliver it.
I asked this question on the presentation course and have even referred back to my course notes where I wrote down Neil's response - the pupil still has to pay the ADI to deliver post test part of the training  wink And yes the pricing structure has changed, £25 up front (covers cost of e learning) and £150 upon completion of all five modules including post test.  If the pupil prefers, they can pay £175 up front.
I also received an e mail from a2om dated 12th January 2009 in which it quite clearly states :

•    BTEC students will take around four post-test lessons before completing the BTEC- potentially an extra £80+ revenue.

whodareswins comment "There is no extra cost involved with the post test training as this is part and parcel of the BTEC" I beg to differ unless you provide the post test sessions for free



I do have the contact name at a2om who provided me with this information, and if you seek clarification, please pm me and I will give you their name and number to confirm with them.

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#68 07-03-09 17:20:09

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: a2om - btec driving science

No problem Vanda,

I misunderstood what you were saying. I agree (of course) that the ADI has to be paid for all the lessons they deliver (including the post test lessons). I was also aware that learning suite can be purchased initially and the balance paid upon completion of the training.

A2om have also scrapped what used to be called the "Full A2om Course". It has been replaced by the BTEC675. They now have two BTEC options and the differences are shown below.

BTEC175 – Cost £175, plus lessons
This course teaches beyond the required DSA standard; incorporating online and in-car practical assessments which once completed, qualifies the driver for a BTEC Level 2 award in Driving Science (GCSE level equivalent). Every BTEC175 student has access to our award-winning eLearning suite, which provides all the theory and hazard perception test revision they could ever need.

BTEC675 – Cost £675, plus lessons
This product incorporates all main benefits of the BTEC175, but is delivered by a hand-picked a2om tutor, as opposed to an affiliate driving instructor. All a2om tutors undergo a rigorous selection and training process to ensure the best quality tuition available. Furthermore, the BTEC675 includes our psychometric assessment (a2om attitude) early on, giving us the ability to bespoke the course to fit your needs.

You may be interested to watch this link: http://www.a2om.com/demo which shows the quality of the a2om training materials.

By the way, Neil is no longer working for A2om. No need for clarification or contacts but thanks for the offer.

percy


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#69 07-03-09 22:27:18

Target
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From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
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Re: a2om - btec driving science

Perhaps Greenlight will have some fresh news as it seems unless I looked at the website I was not aware of these changes.

I was not aware that Neil has left as he was my contact, and we spoke over the phone about 4 weeks ago.


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#70 08-03-09 22:26:49

gday
Verified Member
From: Oxfordshire
Registered: 27-04-05
Posts: 531
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Re: a2om - btec driving science

Vanda's 1st post on this page has hit the nail on the head.

The course sounds a great idea and having been a Coroner's Officer for 7 years dealing with young fatalities I am all for making people safer on the roads but a lot of people are struggling to pay for their driving lessons, let alone additional training.

The only people who are likely to take up this course are those from higher income families, hence why on a2om's literature the schools that are signed up to it are private or fee paying schools and in my experience these are the pupils that are already asking more questions in the car and are already signed up to learning as much as they can in all areas of their life, including driving.

The "average" learner wants to pass their test with as little expense as possible and will not be able to afford or see the reason why they should pay any more money to pass the same test!

If people really wanted to make a diiference to driver education / road safety then this should be availble within all schools not just fee paying as a 6th form topic with the cost being covered by the education system.

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#71 09-03-09 09:36:38

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: a2om - btec driving science

Are they really struggling thou?

The course itself, is simliar to a decent pass plus course, although as pointed out lesson fees are ontop, but would 6-10 hours be needed post test with the structured learning of the BTEC.

They are issues beyond the BTEC, that make it so hard for this scheme to move forwards.

I get many pupils who willing come to lessons and tell me how expensive the lessons are yet always find that holiday once a year, sometimes more.

Perhaps more education is needed from an earlier stage. How often do we get phone calls from parents wanting a lesson for little jimmy 2 days before his birthday - yet how long have they had to plan for that day.

The cost of running a car each year is a basic course of lessons? Im sure its different in other areas.



On another note. www.a2om.com have a link to a recent publishcation written in the 'evening standard'


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#72 14-03-09 15:54:16

on board training
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Re: a2om - btec driving science

Hi,

Not sure how this is going now but I made enquiries with a former a2om trainer who still had car in short term and if what he has told me is correct he says that a2om have scaled down what they were doing and have laid off all if not most of their salaried trainers who I am led to believe were on £20 to £25K with the Audi or BMW. I was told by one that he was only getting 16 to 18 hours a week and only 3 of his students were through a2om. He told me that in his experience the learners were not prepared to pay the extra fee expected.

I also don't think much of their processes if they sell a course, which is possibly 50 hours, for £10 per hour more with one of their full time salaried trainers compared to the course with only their approved assessor. Again they seem happy to sell this package to ADis and then sell the ADI short by implying that said ADIs are not as good as their own employed trainers.

The actual package looks good but the whole way of selling it to ADIs and the public maybe leaves a lot to be desired.

#73 15-03-09 09:04:25

whodareswins
Verified Member
From: S.E.England
Registered: 12-04-06
Posts: 550

Re: a2om - btec driving science

A2om have not scaled down anything that they were doing. They are just doing it a different way.

A2om only had about 30 employed ADIs and this was initially sufficient to train pupils who had paid for the "full" A2om course that cost about £2600. When pupils signed up for the full course there was an understanding that they would be able to continue with their lessons even when they were on school holidays. This became a logistical nightmare because nearly all of them were "boarders" who might have a home address hundreds of miles away from the school and there might not be an A2om instructor close to their home address. The result was that there were many A2om instructors being paid £25K, and with a fully maintained and expensed vehicle that were only working 8-10 hours a week. A good deal for the ADIs but one that made no financial sense for A2om.

All those salaried ADIs were asked to change their status to "self employed" which meant that they would no longer be paid a salary and that they would have to pay a nominal amount for the (A2om supplied) car. Many of those ADIs still had pupils that had signed up for the full course and in some cases, lived a fair distance away. ADIs in that situation were allowed to claim a mileage/dead time allowance to compensate them for the travelling time and/or mileage. At the same time they were allowed to take on their own pupils and charge them their going rate for lessons. Some (not all) ADIs were not happy with the change and decided to leave.

A2om have now "dropped" the full course and renamed it the BTEC675. The BTEC675 will be delivered and assessed by instructors who have been through the full A2om selection procedure as opposed to the BTEC175 which can be delivered by any "A2om affililiate" instructor. Lesson prices for the BTEC675 will be £25 per hour which means that the cost will be £800 - £1,000 less than the original "full" course. Lessons will be paid for directly to the instructor by the pupil.

In addition to the above, A2om are putting considerable resources into promoting and selling the e-learning software directly into schools. The e-learning software costs £25 per head but if the school purchases a multi-seat licence, the software costs would (of course) reduce. The e-learning modules are exactly the same for both of the BTEC options so pupils have the choice about which one to complete (or neither). In other words, do they want a local "affiliate" ADI or an A2om hand-picked ADI to deliver the training. The BTEC675 also includes a Driver Profiling/Risk Assesment element so that the training can be more closely matched to an individual's requirements.

A2om (and other organisations) are also making presentations directly to schools. Not only are these presentations made directly to 6th formers but also at 6th form parent's evenings as this has shown itself to be the most effective method of getting the message across. It has the advantage of allowing parents to choose which BTEC version is the most appropriate (cost-wise) for their child AND it provides free advertising for all the A2om affiliate ADIs in the local area.

So yes - A2om have revised their business model but their altered focus should be of benefit to all of those ADIs who have signed up to deliver the BTEC.

percy


Grade 6 ADI/Fleet Trainer, SAFED Registered Trainer, Qualified BTEC Assessor

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#74 15-03-09 09:47:32

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: a2om - btec driving science

Good post WDW.........You appear to have some connections in the a2om camp.

I often read posts, and everyones entitled to their opinion, but I thought Id clarify just incase.

A2om instructors have taken a 1 week course, which when I've spoken to some instructors they have been lost for words. These are experienced instructors and in some cases running small businesses themselves and or driving schools and have been qualified Adis for many years.

As Ive understood it, their approach to teaching people how to drive has been turned up on end.

A2om affiliated instructors have attended a one day course to deliver the BTEC in driving science, we are given an insite into the a2om full course but in one day the focus is on the BTEC in driving science.

My point is the BTEC is for the pupils, not for the instructor, you do not turn into some super instructor overnight.

We have a society that is so focused on passing a test, that test is all thats required to be safe, and then they can drive how they like because mirrors are for test, or reversing is for test, they check blindspots because their instructor told them, they use 12 o'clock systems on roundabouts, they use little stickers in the car, little stickers on the steering wheel. All because they want to pass a test.

We cannot have a test which focuses on every signal eventuality, or the test would last for ever, but we can focus on the training.

Its a massive bridge to climb, a massive massive bridge, but who knows maybe when Jimmy calls next on this 17th birthday he will ask to be taught how to learn safe driving, rather than call up and ask for a driving licence.


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#75 15-03-09 12:41:13

KevB
Verified Member
From: Amesbury
Registered: 06-06-08
Posts: 1,725
Website

Re: a2om - btec driving science

Question to parent or prospective client over 25
"Would you like the training course to focus on driving safely at all times or to pass the driving test"
Typical answer "Safe driving, of course" (passing of the test is important but  apparently secondary in priority)

Same question to an under 25 yr old client......... "both"

Same question to a teen driver...... "I need to pass first time, how many lessons will I need"

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