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#1 21-04-08 13:35:46

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Don't brake!!

Just watching some thing on the news about speeding. They showed footage captured from police camera vans. These are Transit vans I think, big things covered in police livery with a camera pointing out the back operated by some copper who records your speed etc. Some of the footage was incredible!

There was a white van driver who was putting on a jumper while driving at 86mph on the motorway
A BMW changing lane without signalling at 120mph on the motorway
Some stupid young girl in her Corsa doing 50mph in a 30mph zone whilst talking on her phone!
An estate (not sure what it was, possibly a Skoda) who was doing over 100mph on the motorway and then decided to jam on the brakes when he saw the van IN THE WET, he locked all wheels and slammed into the divider, front end of the car destroyed, bounced off and just slid sideways across all the lanes between 2 other cars and into the hard shoulder, LUCKILY didn't hit anyone
Another BMW who did the same thing, locked all fours when he spotted the camera van and span out up the embankment off the motorway
Lastly a motorbike who was doing 130mph! even when he spotted the camera van and braked he was still doing 100mph when he passed it!

I was especially amazed at the estate though, doing something so irresponsible like that and jamming the brakes on at such high speed on a motorway in the wet, if he had hit another car when sliding across the carriageway it would have been so much worse, luckily he didn't.

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21-04-08 13:35:46

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Re: Don't brake!!



#2 21-04-08 13:53:12

Dimmy
Guest

Re: Don't brake!!

IMHO, that Police vehicle contributed to the accidents and those officers responsible should be prosecuted under H+S regulations.
I dont have time at the moment to explain why I believe that, but I may get time later tonight.

#3 21-04-08 16:36:05

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Don't brake!!

This I must see Dimmy.  yikes yikes yikes yikes yikes yikes yikes

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#4 21-04-08 19:01:18

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Don't brake!!

IMHO, that Police vehicle contributed to the accidents and those officers responsible should be prosecuted under H+S regulations.
I dont have time at the moment to explain why I believe that, but I may get time later tonight.

That is why some people ( like the ABD ) campaign against speed cameras etc in certain places, because they can cause accidents and traffic problems due to drivers breaking like the examples above, though I'm not condoning what speed the drivers were doing.

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#5 21-04-08 19:08:39

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Don't brake!!

The cameras cause the braking?  What on earth are these cameras doing then?  Jumping out into the road?

No, it most definately is NOT the cameras causing these muppets to brake.  It is the individual driver's attitude combined with a lack of awareness.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#6 21-04-08 19:15:35

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Don't brake!!

So if the camera wasn't there then, they would still have braked.....

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#7 21-04-08 19:30:49

billrhoades
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 28-11-07
Posts: 184

Re: Don't brake!!

when the motorised car was first introduced in this country it was unable to go much faster than 8 mph.
As the technology improved vechile speeds became faster.
We mere mortals of humans unable to assatain what is a safe speed for the circumstances had speed limits imposed to take away that thought process o a degree.
We ignored the speed limits and now have safety cameras, if we were able to judge ourselves what a safe speed for any circumstance would be we would NOT need speedlimits,safety cameras etc.
Blame the mindless morons who are prepared to kill people with there reckless attitude to use of speed before blaming the safety cameras.
Just a side note, when the 1st person in this country to be killed by a motorised car the prime minister at the time stated THIS MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN..

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#8 21-04-08 19:39:09

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Don't brake!!

We ignored the speed limits and now have safety cameras, if we were able to judge ourselves what a safe speed for any circumstance would be we would NOT need speedlimits,safety cameras etc.
Blame the mindless morons who are prepared to kill people with there reckless attitude to use of speed before blaming the safety cameras.

The cases above were not due to safety cameras, but a manned van. But what you say is very true, similar can be said for tobacco, alcohol, drugs, some humans just can't keep to limits.

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#9 21-04-08 19:48:44

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Don't brake!!

So if the camera wasn't there then, they would still have braked.....

If they had the right attitude and were aware of the speed limit and were travelling at the correct speed they would still have braked?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#10 21-04-08 19:55:40

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Don't brake!!

True, but instead of cameras, why not put limiters on all cars except emergency vehicles?  wink

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#11 21-04-08 20:00:38

billrhoades
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 28-11-07
Posts: 184

Re: Don't brake!!

As a responsible driver you may need a litle extra speed to avoid an incident!!
Look at the mess lorries cause because they are limited. Yes, if we drove with perfect observation and anticipation we wouldnt need to avoid a collison but we live in the real world where mistakes happen
We should all be responsible enough to judge what is a safe speed for the conditions. And not only the road conditions, our car and ourselves should be in the best possible condition to drive.

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#12 21-04-08 20:05:29

billrhoades
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 28-11-07
Posts: 184

Re: Don't brake!!

There is a village on the A43 between Kettering and Corby that has safety cameras at each end.
The revenue raised by the cameras goes to the upkeep of the village and guess what?
The roads are as near perfect as you can get all year round, including side roads, NO POTHOLES!!! and pavements/grass verges are excellent condition too.
Signage can be seen clearly on the road, YES white lines not a dirty grey.
Excellent use of safety camera money, other councils should take note.

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#13 21-04-08 20:07:30

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Don't brake!!

I'm not trying to upset anyone, just playing devils advocate!  :evil:
There is a road near us in Talke which has a 60mph limit and a safety camera on it, some people travelling at 60mph brake when they see it because they presume they should be going slower and panic,
my hubby just got a ticket for doing just over 30 down a hill, from a manned van that was not obvious at all. Two others in the same camera club also did on the same day.
My first reaction was 'you should have stayed under the limit then!' big_smile

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#14 21-04-08 20:20:10

Dimmy
Guest

Re: Don't brake!!

heres my post I didnt have time earlier to do.

Do I condone the drivers for driving at dangerous speeds and in excess of the limit?  I most certainly DO NOT. they should be prosecuted with the full force of the law, both for their speed and dangerous driving.
Are they responsible for the collisions? YES.

If the cameras were present but not obvious, would the drivers been speeding on approach?
Without doubt.
Would they have over reacted in the same manner? Almost certainly NO.

Is there a history of drivers over reacted when they beleive they are breaking the law and see a police camera vehicle, road safety partnership  camera vehicle or other official camera vehicle.
YES.
Are the police authorities aware that accidents have occured due to the driver reacting to the prescence of a camera vehicle located on or near high speed roads?  YES

Are police aurthorities aware of the connection between the driver observing the camera vehicle and over reacting, resulting in serious road traffic incidents?  YES
Are POlice Authorities aware of the added dangers and higher probability of loss of control in wet or poor weather conditions?  YES.

Can the police gather the same photographic evidence by any other means other than a hi vis vehicle? YES (and they do).
So if that is all true, then the Police Authority is siting camera vehicles in the knowledge that by locating the vehicle in that location may result in a serious road traffic incident that would probably not occur if that vehicle was not in that location and in those weather conditions  then that Police Authority MUST carry some of the responsibility of any such road traffic incident.


Note, I am not saying the driver is blameless, nor am I saying the Police Authority are solely to blame.


If I carried out an action with the knowledge that it may, or is likely to contribute to injury or death  and an incident oocured that resulted in said injury or death then it is fair to assume that Health + Safety legislation would be considered for prosecution purposes.

Those same laws apply to Police Officers and Police Authorities.

#15 21-04-08 20:32:11

MiniClassic
Verified Member
From: Croydon
Registered: 18-01-06
Posts: 447

Re: Don't brake!!

I may be wrong about H&S legislation - nowhere near an area I've spent much time worrying over, but isn't it mainly involved with you doing your job?

So if the police are themselves safe & anyone who enters their workplace (van etc) is safe then they're not to blame for other people responding to them.

If the vehicle that crashes as a result of seeing them is a company car I understand that the firm could be liable if the driver hadn't had his driving assessed.

& if the speed trap is hidden too many people moan about being caught unfairly!


Ambition Driving College

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#16 21-04-08 20:35:55

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Don't brake!!

Wasn't there a case against an advertising company that their advert caused crashes due to drivers staring at scantily clad women?? wonderbra or something like that, and it got banned? don't know if they got prosecuted though.....

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#17 21-04-08 21:13:40

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Don't brake!!

True, but instead of cameras, why not put limiters on all cars except emergency vehicles?  wink

Wouldn't work.  How would putting a limit of 70 on cars help in a 50 limit?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#18 21-04-08 21:46:59

binty1968
Verified Member
From: Hants/Surrey border
Registered: 22-02-06
Posts: 1,691
Website

Re: Don't brake!!

The cameras cause the braking?  What on earth are these cameras doing then?  Jumping out into the road?

No, it most definately is NOT the cameras causing these muppets to brake.  It is the individual driver's attitude combined with a lack of awareness.

Nigel

& the thought of 'Oh S*%T camera, points, fine.....which wouldnt happen if they were doing the correct speed!!!!

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#19 22-04-08 16:50:33

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Don't brake!!

Why sell cars that can do 200mph to people in the UK?

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#20 29-04-08 22:57:32

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Re: Don't brake!!

Because we have race tracks, and it's fun

Shazzer wrote:

True, but instead of cameras, why not put limiters on all cars except emergency vehicles?  wink

Wouldn't work.  How would putting a limit of 70 on cars help in a 50 limit?

Nigel

I believe that was tried a few years ago. Saab or someone fitted a device to a test car which used satellite navigation to determine the location of the vehicle and the road it was travelling on. It would then search a database of roads to find out what the speed limit was on that particular road, and limit the car to that speed. It didn't really catch on.

Why sell cars that can do 200mph to people in the UK?

I suppose because we have race tracks that you can take your car to and drive at whatever speed you want.

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#21 29-04-08 23:05:47

keith-adi
Verified Member
From: wirral
Registered: 19-07-06
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Don't brake!!

i visited sigapore in i think 1989 and all delivery vans ie white vans here had a limit set of 50kmh (i think) if the driver went over! a yellow flashing beacon went off that he couldnt switch off. then the plod fined him. harsh but is it unfair? it is breaking the law? yes. i stay within it so do my learners (with a little "encouragement) not saying it would work here - just an observation ! it would work on bmw's audi's merc's and saabs tho  big_smile big_smile big_smile


We can all drive! some of us don't know it yet!     Smart Start School of Motoring
lessons available Wirral wide.

http://www.smartstart-wirral.com

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