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#1 04-11-07 16:50:41

yasmin
Verified Member
Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Rural roads for a check test

I have my check test in 6 weeks time and I'm considering doing a lesson on rural roads. Speed, awareness, observation of road signs peculiar to this type of road and anything else I can think of such as weather, road surface etc. The list is endless but has anyone else used this topic? Is it a good choice? I have a couple of pupils who have dealt with national speed limits on dual carriageways so they are ideal candidates. Advice please from you seasoned campaigners!

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04-11-07 16:50:41

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Re: Rural roads for a check test




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#2 04-11-07 19:54:12

Graham Hooper
Verified Member
From: Ashford Kent
Registered: 12-02-06
Posts: 223
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Re: Rural roads for a check test

Hi

A little bit of advice the subject does not choose the check test, your pupil's needs choose the check test subject, if you are taking a pupil for your check test you should not know what subject you are going to teach until after they have finished the previous lesson. I have been grade 6 since 1999 and received straight sixes on my last check test in August but it was fleet.

Kind regards


www.1st-4.org
www.tri-coachingpartnership.co.uk
Part 3 Rescue a speciality, Fleet/Learner check test, Coaching courses, Advanced driving SAFED, ADI-CPD or if just want some advice.

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#3 05-11-07 06:48:01

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Rural roads for a check test

Hi Yasmin that is a very good choice for a check test.If you choose the right pupil

I have now used this several times to change check test grades for clients fron 3 to 5.

Pick a pupil with a general high standard round town with little experience out of town. A pupil who you expect can drive unaided in busy built up areas.

Anyone who tells you a pupil needs to make mistakes 'to give you some work to do' is very wrong. Just ensure learning takes place (which it will with this lesson)

It should be a follow on lesson which this should be as mentioned above. If you have a laptop or can loan one i can e-mail you a presentation on rural roads and associated hazards to begin the lesson.

Just make sure you have a genuine pupil with little experience of the above subject.Link in the biggest cause of death in young drivers is high speed crashes on national speed limit roads.

Go on try the lesson give your SE something different and interesting they love it, much more interesting than another manouvre or roundabouts.




EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#4 05-11-07 09:06:31

yasmin
Verified Member
Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Thanks very much for the advice. I appreciate  the bit about the pupil 'choosing the topic'. The one I have in mind has done a lot of the necessary training in readiness for her test but this topic is the missing link due to her location. We have just started to venture into TC area and pupils are very likely to meet rural roads on test, hence the choice of topic. Hector: your enthusiasm for the choice at least puts any doubts out of my mind regarding the subject matter! When I read that loads of people choose roundabouts and junctions as ideal topics it puts doubt in my mind about MY choice. Thanks for that. As far as e-mailing a presentation--- that would be great. Now how do I get my address to you? Being a computer illiterate I shall have to investigate how to get in touch!   

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#5 05-11-07 18:37:56

Graham Hooper
Verified Member
From: Ashford Kent
Registered: 12-02-06
Posts: 223
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Hector has a very good point about making learning interesting it is extremely important because this will help learning take place, rural roads are an excellent subject matter, be aware of any flaws in your clients driving that may make you need to adapt the subject, consider their normal road position ie; for bends and the need to make reasonable progress, have they a understanding of overtaking will their be slow moving vehicles, plan your route be aware, so you can anticipate potential problems and good luck.


www.1st-4.org
www.tri-coachingpartnership.co.uk
Part 3 Rescue a speciality, Fleet/Learner check test, Coaching courses, Advanced driving SAFED, ADI-CPD or if just want some advice.

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#6 05-11-07 19:16:30

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Rural roads for a check test

When you offer check test training Graham,  do you find what most people have planned potentially boring?

The examiners must feel the same, i always feel a boring lesson has to be outstanding to stand a chance of a high grade.

The presentation and lesson plan i use on rural roads focuses on bends mainly, the route plan is crucial in this. It highlights all rural hazards with progression continuing on future lessons.

I still believe the fact these drivers keep crashing with no other vehicles involved indicates a lack of or no training from some ADI's

I asked my SE how many check tests he had seen with a laptop presentation to bring the lesson to life

His reply? None other than fleet and only one there!


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#7 05-11-07 20:21:27

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
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Re: Rural roads for a check test

Hector..... on an ADI check test would you bring in "limit points" to the rural drive or leave that for Fleet?


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
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#8 06-11-07 07:01:51

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Definitely

Pupils not being taught about limit points is a big reason why they crash on bends.

IPSGA best and easiest way to explain dealing with bends.


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
James Dawson Grade 6 ADI (Ordit Registered) Ba (Hons) Driver Education
ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#9 06-11-07 15:09:51

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Definitely

Pupils not being taught about limit points is a big reason why they crash on bends.

IPSGA best and easiest way to explain dealing with bends.

I teach Limit points to learners, its one of the lesson plans where you see their eyes light up and a big smile appears.........


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#10 06-11-07 22:28:10

Graham Hooper
Verified Member
From: Ashford Kent
Registered: 12-02-06
Posts: 223
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Hector

The two main repeating problems that I find is that an ADI tends to treat the lesson just like a part 3 test and the other the subject matter they choose is huge and not focused on teaching. If I only have an hour to teach in I usually teach only one part of subject with one aim gain independance increasing the difficulty of the route as improvement is shown. The learner enjoys the experience by gaining success stage by stage.
I can cast my mind back to my very first check test chose crossroads picked a client who was challenging then gave them a route which was nearly mission impossible result sraped a 4.
Next check test chose a client who I could communicate with taught one part of a subject MIrrors before changing direction got a 6 sounds boring made it interesting, stimulated the learner by offering reasonable challenges that they could succeed in, I was smiling the learner was smiling and the SE was smiliing. Sounds easy, had a lesson plan that was adaptable.
All of us can benefit from further training, all I can do is urge all ADI'S/PDI'S is to listen, reflect, read and push their own boundaries. I have old lesson plans that I used that I am willing to e-mail to any-one if it will help them benefit making their own. If you have friends who are ADI'S and you have free time sit in the back of their lessons. Copying what works will it help. Sorry its a bit late starting to ramble.


www.1st-4.org
www.tri-coachingpartnership.co.uk
Part 3 Rescue a speciality, Fleet/Learner check test, Coaching courses, Advanced driving SAFED, ADI-CPD or if just want some advice.

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#11 14-12-07 12:12:14

yasmin
Verified Member
Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Well the check test on rural roads was yesterday and I'm pleased to say it was successful. Only a 4 but with some 5's thrown in. The weather was very frosty and a fair bit of ice on the roads so my pupil took extra care. However, the SE thought he should have been making even more progress although I felt he did make an effort when the roads were clearer. As over instruction had been my downfall on my 'educational' last Christmas, I was pleased when he said my hard work to improve that, had resulted in a satisfactory lesson. Thanks for all the advice which gave me some training in a strange sort of way! Happy Christmas to all. Now I can aim for a higher grade in 2009! big_smile

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#12 14-12-07 13:54:18

may
Verified Member
From: co.durham
Registered: 30-11-07
Posts: 199

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Pupils not being taught about limit points is a big reason why they crash on bends.

IPSGA best and easiest way to explain dealing with bends.

what are limit points?
and IPSGA?

sorry to be a bit thick, just starting out and have never heard of limit points or IPSGA.

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#13 14-12-07 18:54:05

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

hector wrote:

Pupils not being taught about limit points is a big reason why they crash on bends.

IPSGA best and easiest way to explain dealing with bends.

what are limit points?
and IPSGA?

sorry to be a bit thick, just starting out and have never heard of limit points or IPSGA.

IPSGA - Information, Position, Speed, Gear, Acceleration

Limit Points - if you were to stand on a train track and look along the line, the limit point is where the tracks appear to touch, transfer that to the road and you have a similar scenario at bends/corners.
without going into to much detail, you need to be able to "stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your own side of the road". if the point at where the road appears to touch is always moving from you, then you are not travelling to fast( normal speed limits)Roadcraft explains it better, and has pictures tongue


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#14 14-12-07 18:59:16

billrhoades
Verified Member
From: Northampton
Registered: 28-11-07
Posts: 184

Re: Rural roads for a check test

May, find your local RoSPA/IAM group and do an advanced/defensive driver training course. Buy yourself a copy of Roadcraft the police drivers handbook as well explains alot.
Your not thick its a case of dont know which leaves scope for learning!!!

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#15 24-12-07 19:44:07

ijmoore
Verified Member
From: Staffordshire
Registered: 25-10-06
Posts: 1,077
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Any ADI who doesn't know what limit points are should get some better training!

No offense meant for anyone, but this is critical for safety on our roads! I was certainly never taught them.. when i was learning on provisional! And it did show when i came off the road when i was 18! Luckily no one else was injured!  Teach them every time now!

I certainly have road craft to hand in the car where ever necessary!


Fleet Training
Iain Moore ADI Grade A, Fleet, RoSPA Tutor, DIAmond Ad, MSA National B Race License, EST Reg
fleet@learnmooredriving.co.uk 07999 992141

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#16 24-12-07 21:38:49

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Any ADI who doesn't know what limit points are should get some better training!

to a certain extent i agree, but with most test routes ONLY touching on rural driving, its not a necessity to teach Limit Point Analysis, so most ADI's wont teach it, instead, they will advise their pupils to try and get around 45/50 in a 60 limit, and as they have been over all the test routes prior, they know the 500yard stretch wher they "must" put the boot down.


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#17 24-12-07 23:11:17

Lynne
Verified Member
From: Essex
Registered: 05-03-04
Posts: 925

Re: Rural roads for a check test

ijmoore wrote:

Any ADI who doesn't know what limit points are should get some better training!

to a certain extent i agree, but with most test routes ONLY touching on rural driving, its not a necessity to teach Limit Point Analysis, so most ADI's wont teach it, instead, they will advise their pupils to try and get around 45/50 in a 60 limit, and as they have been over all the test routes prior, they know the 500yard stretch wher they "must" put the boot down.

And that is awful.  It goes back to teaching someone to "pass the test" as opposed to teaching them "to drive"

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#18 25-12-07 20:39:16

EKAL
Verified Member
From: East Kilbride
Registered: 23-04-06
Posts: 1,050
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

EKAL wrote:
ijmoore wrote:

Any ADI who doesn't know what limit points are should get some better training!

to a certain extent i agree, but with most test routes ONLY touching on rural driving, its not a necessity to teach Limit Point Analysis, so most ADI's wont teach it, instead, they will advise their pupils to try and get around 45/50 in a 60 limit, and as they have been over all the test routes prior, they know the 500yard stretch wher they "must" put the boot down.

And that is awful.  It goes back to teaching someone to "pass the test" as opposed to teaching them "to drive"

I totaly agree Lynne, what i said was "most". I have it in my lesson plans


DSA ADI, DSA Fleet, RoADAR Diploma, RoADAR Gold.
SAFED for LGV/HGV - SAFED train the trainer
Driver CPC Trainer
www.agnewdrivertraining.co.uk

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#19 02-01-08 17:07:55

christhedrummer
Verified Member
Registered: 18-10-06
Posts: 1,163
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

[

ijmoore wrote:

Any ADI who doesn't know what limit points are should get some better training!




As I only did my part 2 2years ago and did plenty of driving on rural roads the words Limit Point did not appear HOWEVER, we extensively covered the stop in the distance you can see etc etc etc

Just because we didn't know what a certain term meant doesn't mean the training was sub-standard....

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#20 03-01-08 09:28:49

yasmin
Verified Member
Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Re: Rural roads for a check test

I was a bit surprised by the 'better training' quote too. Perhaps 'more advanced training' would have been a better choice of words. I knew 'limit points'  as  'vanishing points' as someone else said and all credit to May for asking advice. I hope you weren't put off by the reply, May!

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#21 03-01-08 12:02:06

abrocky
Verified Member
Registered: 06-06-06
Posts: 101
Website

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Hector - I would love a copy of your presentation, I am trying to get as much info as possible - to try to improve my ways of teaching subjects... so much available from the site I have not had chance to look at it all!!  thanks people!!

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#22 06-01-08 11:06:07

Horizon
Verified Member
From: South Yorkshire/North Notts
Registered: 19-10-04
Posts: 169

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Just got my appointment letter and am thinking of doing the 'Rural Roads' Pass Plus module but as a role play with the SE.  Any comments, and Yasmin, any tips?

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#23 07-01-08 09:19:17

yasmin
Verified Member
Registered: 02-06-07
Posts: 562

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Hello there. I found the topic fascinating and well worth doing but there is so much to consider, you need to focus on one subject. I chose the bends as the incident rate on rural roads is so high. Consider weather, road and traffic conditions. The latter, I classed as mechanical, human and animal. As previous posts suggest, talk about limit/vanishing points, procedure before, on and driving out of the bend. Remember being able to stop within the distance ---. Choose your route and pupil carefully. I had an alternative topic ready in case the weather was too bad. In the event we had a frosty start and a bit of ice in places. I got a 4 with a number of 5,s but some favourable comments. The SE would have liked me to push my pupil on to the N/S more often and to 'let go' of him a bit earlier. My route had lots of bends, farm entrances, hills, dead ground, changes of speed limit, hidden driveways, passing places, warning signs for farm and wild animals ---- the list goes on! Time your route and briefing/ de brief. I ran over time a bit and that went against me although I had driven the route several times. As my pupil didn't take advantage of the N/S as much as I had done, it reflected in the timings. I took some training with my original trainer, thank goodness and that really helped. Last week I was driving the same route with another pupil and there we passed a car in a ditch round a bend! It certainly proved a point! Good luck with the CT smile 

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#24 07-01-08 13:02:47

Horizon
Verified Member
From: South Yorkshire/North Notts
Registered: 19-10-04
Posts: 169

Re: Rural roads for a check test

Thanks Yasmin.

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