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#1 16-09-07 16:47:25

Janey1
Verified Member
From: Suffolk
Registered: 01-02-06
Posts: 292

I Made A Loss!!

Hi all - haven't been on here for a while

Just had me accountant do me books for 06/07 and I made nearly a £2000 loss!  Good job I have me other job that I can claim the loss from!

I cannot believe that I have been going for about 1 and a half years and only have 3 pupils.  I have had 3 pupils pass too.

What a joke - there are too many of us in this area - a population of 5000 and more than 5 instructors!  The population is mainly elderly too!!

Anyone else struggling?

Cheers





Janey

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16-09-07 16:47:25

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Re: I Made A Loss!!




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#2 16-09-07 19:41:53

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Do you intend on this becoming your full time job Janey? If so where are you thinking of sourcing your pupils from as three isn't going to get you too far as you already know  wink First and second years i will have made a loss third year i will have actually got some profit  lol lol

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#3 16-09-07 19:58:04

Dimmy
Guest

Re: I Made A Loss!!

third year i will have actually got some profit  lol lol

woohoo, you're paying the next time we nip down the bakers. :evil:

#4 16-09-07 20:16:24

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: I Made A Loss!!

  roll  I got you a bacon roll on thursday what more do you want  lol lol

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#5 16-09-07 20:34:23

VandADI
Administrator
From: Coulsdon, Surrey
Registered: 29-02-04
Posts: 7,592

Re: I Made A Loss!!

!  Good job I have me other job that I can claim the loss from!
Anyone else struggling?







Janey

If you don't mind me asking Janey, how are you claiming losses? 
By the sound of it, your are only instructing part time which would explain why you are struggling.  You have to put your heart and soul into this profession to make it work.  It can be years before you see any return on the business, and if you are only doing this job part time, it will take you much, much longer to see any kind of financial reward.
I am afraid it's dog it dog in this business, and only the strongest survive, others fall by the way side.  You will have to find a way to put yourself above the competition in your area, as you say it is fierce.  Find your unique selling point and go for it!

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#6 19-09-07 19:13:31

Janey1
Verified Member
From: Suffolk
Registered: 01-02-06
Posts: 292

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Thanks everyone

Yeah, I would like to go full time, but there isn't enough pupils round here!  I was another sucker who got involved with Let's Drive and a promise of £30,000 a year and a full diary without sussing my market here!!

I am claiming my losses from my other job, so say I earned £20,000 with my other job and have already paid tax on this for 06/07 year as PAYE - the tax office takes off my loss from my earnings, say £20,000 - £2000 (loss) = £18,000 and they return the tax I overpaid for the additional £2,000 of my loss - have I confused you?  I have just received the cheque from the taxman today of around £340 - but had to pay my accountant £295!!

I'm scared to let go of this job (as I have worked so hard to get here) and also would not like to lose my other job because the Instructor job is so 'flimsy'

Thanks for listening





Janey

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#7 20-09-07 07:07:14

helee
Verified Member
Registered: 12-11-06
Posts: 182

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Don't give up if you are good enough!!!

If you are good enough you need to look elsewhere for ideas. Sometimes i'm travelling 3/4 of an hour to do a 2 hr lesson but then make sure my other lessons are on the way 'home' still takes me 3/4 of an hour to get home but i do do other lessons inbetween.

What about other avenues to follow (fleet, adi training?)

I have only been an ADI for 3 months but have a fullish diary. Now i'm targetting the fleet market to get a totally full diary.

The work is there if you really work for it in my opinion.

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#8 20-09-07 11:52:39

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: I Made A Loss!!

...What a joke - there are too many of us in this area - a population of 5000 and more than 5 instructors!  The population is mainly elderly too!!...

Hi Janey1 please bear with me and I'll relate a sorry tale of my own which will have some bearing on your own situation.

About 30 months ago, after working for 10 years as an ADI in Australia's frontier Northern Territory ("The Top End"), I decided to head 3,000km back to my home state South Australia to set up business.
What a disaster! The contrast between the two areas is really in-your-face stuff.
South Australia is a very conservative place (very nice people though) and the population is so elderly that it is immediately obvious - elderly people many on electric scooters or in walking frames shuffling about the streets everywhere, polite considerate people but the economy is stagnant and going further backwards. There is no enthusiasm at all.

In the NT, the population is exceptionally young and enthusiastic, the economy booming, every suburb (and they are tiny suburbs) has at least one Primary School, nearly every second street is a School Zone!

When I got to Adelaide's Southern District which itself has a population bigger than the NT's capital city Darwin, the work was virtually nil.  I got plenty of offers from local schools to provide me with work for a small commission, after 18 months I had presented 3 students (2 manual, 1 auto) for successfully their test and had been commended for their high standard, but I had been living for 18 months with barely 4 lessons a week, most of them at very reduced rates (A$10/lesson) or completely free.

I'm now back in in the NT turning down requests for lessons on almost a daily basis, and I can charge much more for each lesson too. We have a government subsided log-book system here which guarantees a constant stream of 16-year-old students, and the place is booming so much that the source of overseas students - Chinese Indian Nepalese Thai Vietnamese Balinese etc etc - wanting licence conversions is never ending too. All ADIs complain (!) they are flat-out.

In Adelaide... the few youngsters who haven't fled to other (more exciting) states can barely manage 1 lesson a month and they have a plethora of instructors to choose from. Made worse from my timing - when I got down south the local Mitsubishi plants laid off a huge amount of workers and guess what many chose to spend their severance pay on - a new Lancer training car and ADI qualifications.

Darwin, Northern Territory: about 100 students per ADI all with subsides vouchers demanding at least 2 lessons per week.
Adelaide, South Australia: about 100 ADIs per student, each student barely able to afford more than 1 lesson per month.

OK a bit exaggerated but the contrast is quite remarkable.

If you managed to read this far Janey1, my point is that it seems you can blame the district you have chosen to work in. Please don't think you're not good enough.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#9 20-09-07 12:10:50

Lucky245
Verified Member
From: N.Ireland
Registered: 09-05-07
Posts: 119

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Sorry about the loss and slightly off topic but this has brought a very interesting point to my attention.  If I understand you correctly you made a £2000 loss on your part time ADI job and were able to offset these losses against your primary job.  If I understand you correctly this would mean I would be better off (When I reach the gold standard and pass pt 3 or maybe even as a PDI) being part time with my fulltime job until I create my customer base and or find my niche market.

I often wondered about this but was never certain.  Thankyou for this info big_smile


"Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean its wrong!!!"

RoADA Gold

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#10 20-09-07 13:02:40

howly
Verified Member
Registered: 16-10-06
Posts: 140
Website

Re: I Made A Loss!!

lucky

starting on a part time basis is a low risk strategy to start with (after all you can always fall back on your other job if things dont turn out as expected). 

i wouldn't bog yourself down with the tax implications too much at this stage, ultimately the more you earn the more tax you pay.  the first £5k profit you make (all earnings - not just through self-employment) is tax free (personal allowance), so if you dont earn much the first year then your tax bill is very small or nil.  if you make a loss the first year i'm sure you can carry that loss forward to offset the tax bill for the following year.

the reason janey got a tax refund was due to her paying more tax on her PAYE than she needed to (the way i understand it is PAYE tax payments through an employer don't take into consideration any self employment earnings/losses).

whether you go full-time or part-time to start with largely depends on your expected sales through driving instruction and whether this can sustain your lifestyle.

hope this makes sense and helps.

chris

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#11 20-09-07 13:05:36

Lucky245
Verified Member
From: N.Ireland
Registered: 09-05-07
Posts: 119

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Yep makes perfect sense and thanks for filling in the gaps


"Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean its wrong!!!"

RoADA Gold

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#12 20-09-07 17:00:14

pj
Verified Member
From: surrey
Registered: 27-02-05
Posts: 1,794

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Sometimes i'm travelling 3/4 of an hour to do a 2 hr lesson but then make sure my other lessons are on the way 'home' still takes me 3/4 of an hour to get home but i do do other lessons inbetween.

If a pupil lives more than 15 mins from my house then i ain't taking them on unless they want to travel to meet me (which quite a few do)


PJ Dip DI

if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

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#13 20-09-07 18:07:26

Janey1
Verified Member
From: Suffolk
Registered: 01-02-06
Posts: 292

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Hi all - thanks for your story Zipper - I have chosen the wrong place really, cos I did quite well in my first Check Test - I got a 5!

I do travel a lot - one of my pupils is half an hour away (18 miles), one 20 minutes (10 miles) and one just 6 miles away (10 minutes).  Also the TCs are far away - the nearest being 45 minutes away (around 22 miles) the other one is 55 minutes away (30 miles), so I can understand why pupils take the train (around £5 return) and go up to the TC area and find an instructor there.  This is what most of them do, where as I would obviously charge them my usual 2 hour charge to go to there, practice a few roads, and return - they can get there (and back) for £5 and then have a 2 hour lesson within the TC area - makes sense really.

Hi Lucky245 - yes, in a way I was quite lucky I made a loss because I could claim the money back and not pay the tax man!!  Most of my loss was depreciation, which would have happened if I was normally travelling to work anyway - so it's a bonus I got this back really - I let the accountant sort it all out for me!! 

Cheers





Janey

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#14 03-10-07 19:38:18

New Girl
Verified Member
From: Somerset
Registered: 25-07-05
Posts: 524

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Hi Janey

If the pupils travel to the nearst test centre why dont you?  You could meet pupils there maybe?  Would that work?

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#15 05-10-07 17:45:05

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: I Made A Loss!!

Tell me about instructors.

Been back from holiday one week and seen all of 4-5 new school cars on the road. Dont you just love it.

Thankfully I do not think many are competing with me. In fact I do not even know how they pull in their pupils because non seem to advertise. Must be those lucky ones we all here about. Full Diary 24/7.

Had a pupil this week started who came from one of those shouting lot. Seen the same school car on the road today. Makes you wonder how they stay in business. Delightful young lady!.

However........I agree with Vanda. To break it full-time needs full-time commitment. Its better to set targets for yourself. For instance. You had lets assume 20 pupils last year, why not aim to try for another 10 pupils. How many hours can you do total. Will that provide some profit.

Sounds as thou you are in a good position. You have a highly paid job and have just broken even. Theres a few people who would like £20k including a car.

Most full-time instructors will be earning £20k-£25k once they have built their diarys.

Look at where you need to source pupils. BUt advertising is expensive, and in most cases does not result in immediate results.

I've tried many avenues for pupils, and most have resulted in nothing. Its just the nature of the game.

To many fish in the sea. Spoke to a new client recently. She found me on the internet. Even thats getting saturated now.

I asked her what decision she came to when calling.

It was mainly about the car, new and modern. Other than that it sounds as thou I was lucky to get the call. In fact I called her back about 4 days later, because as mentioned i was on holiday.


I would aim for some simple targets. My target for this first year was never to go below what I need to pay the bills. I acheived that so far. I canvass if i have  afree day, if needed although 9/10 theres enough work in the office to keep me going.

Just try to increase the growth year on year, but its taken me 4 years to get here, most instructors take around 6-7 years to get self sufficient. Yes I know there are those who have done everything in the first year, there will always be some away from the norm, just like some people will always win the raffle, thats just life.


Approved Driving Instructor ADI(car)
Cardington Grade (A) Diamond Special DIA MSA IAM ROSPA (Silver)
QEF Mobility Qualified
Taxi Driver Training DATT
BTEC Qualified Assessor
www.targettuition.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/TargetTuition

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#16 15-12-08 19:28:32

Hale
Verified Member
From: Reading
Registered: 26-06-05
Posts: 379
Website

Re: I Made A Loss!!

I understand totally why people make a loss, i mean if you want to actually make a decent living out of this you have no choice but to go indy. Then there's ALL the set-up costs. But if your good and have a head for business you can make it work, it does take time but if you love the job its well worth it.


When i say STOP, I can only mean ONE thing!

Part 1 - Passed Sept 2003
Part 2 - Passed Nov 2003
Part 3 - Failed Aug 2004
Part 3 - Passed Jan 2005

http://www.hayleys-driving-tuition.co.uk

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