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#26 30-08-07 11:55:21

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,697
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

They say a poor workman shouldn't blame his tools but in the case of motorcycles I think the machine itself is partly to blame. I know many riders who practice caution in their car but let 'er rip when on their motorbike. Apart from the nimbleness and exhilaration, it's the feeling of freedom, of wind on the cheeks, of bugs in the teeth (happy riders only), of the jacket billowing and riding up behind making one look like real dork. That's not meant to excuse bad riding, of course.

I am a very conservative rider and haven't had a scratch all these years. Pity I can't say the same about my bicycle riding.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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30-08-07 11:55:21

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Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????




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#27 30-08-07 12:24:44

robbo65
Member
Registered: 30-08-07
Posts: 1

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

1% of the driving population and 18% of crashes says it all.

Most are mad beyond belief-they just dont realise it.

Im fed up of taking out moaning bikers on speed and NDIS, who dont check round for bikers themselves in queing traffic but gripe that they dont get consideration from car drivers in the same situations.

Ive no symaphy for them-the vast majority are stupid enough to ride in jeans and trainers or failing that black leathers and black bikes.

Yes and from those statistics how many of those accidents involved a car and how many of those was the car drivers fault. I ride and  when conditions allow i make good quick progress. So many car drivers get annoyed at our ability to make good progress in all traffic conditions. Dont bother quoting statistics unless you are going to quote all the information that goes with it presented in the way you have makes it look like car drivers are blameless. There is good and bad in all types of traffic users, yes i ride a bike but i'm not some sort of lunatic i have a loving family at home just like many other riders. When some people notice someone riding like a lunatic it sticks in thier minds, but when a rider passes you doing nothing wrong, your attention is not drawn to them and as such probaly do not even remember them passing you by. At the end of the day we are all road users and should look out for each other

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#28 30-08-07 23:02:36

bandita12-1200-rider
Member
Registered: 30-08-07
Posts: 3

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

Hi guys, Just thought I'd pop in from banditforum.co.uk  . Thought you may like to know your discussion, passed on by Cat, is interesting some of us. The title is interesting though. You needed to be less specific in your question. Try ...Why is motoring so dangerous? Then look at some of the comments from "instructors".   As a driver also, long before I was a biker , I see twice the amount of bad behaviour than those that just drive a car. It pains me when I see shunts between cars on the way to work(almost every week). It pains me to see the biker wheelying passed without a care. I think we all need to realise that we are all in contol of machines that will maim in a second and kill on a whim.That includes those who are instructing car drivers . In general , I think we need to chill out when we are out there. So what if someone feels its his right to pull-in in front of you , just back off. Does it really matter to you if someone overtakes you? Realise also that those bikers who filter(oh boy, does that really annoy you???) through slow moving traffic are not getting one over on you , they are reducing the length of a traffic queue.

LESS OF THE THEM AND US . WE ARE ALL ROAD USERS.
 

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#29 30-08-07 23:32:27

bandita12-1200-rider
Member
Registered: 30-08-07
Posts: 3

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

You don't have many smiley's do you?   big_smile

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#30 31-08-07 09:33:46

Andreus84
Member
Registered: 31-08-07
Posts: 1

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

Hi there i also have popped across from banditforum.co.uk.

I was very interested to see this post, especially from driving instructors sad

I myself and a car driver of 5 years and a have riden bikes for 6 years.

I have had quite a bit of time during my travels to see both good and bad driving from both Motorcyclists and Car drivers.
I have cringed a few times at actions of some riders, but most of the time i have Nearly crashed was down to inconsiderate Car Drivers, a lot of the time Car drivers do not let bikes filter through which puts in a dangerous position being stranded in the middle of the road with nowhere to go.
You do find that a lot of motorists are considerate and will let us pass (and it is safe to do so) to which case i thank them with a wave of my hand and then away i go.

I am interested to see statistics on this post as i am one for statistics.

As someone mentioned unfortunately the Ratio of 1:5 springs into mind (1 bad thing will need 5 good things to replace it) so if you see one biker doing something dangerous it will then need 5 fantastic bits of riding to sway you the other way.

A few more statistics:

Your chances of being killed on a motorcycle are 42 times higher (per billion passenger km) than that as a car passenger and 307 times higher than that as a rail passenger (so why dont we all catch trains)

In 1998, drivers aged 17-21 years made up 7% of all license holders, but were involved in 15% of injury crashes (how much would this be reduced by if compulsory CBT was given first)

A half of all road deaths are to car occupants, Pedestrians make up just under a quarter of all road deaths (which leaves us only a quarter to fill up)

I like this one: Regarding environmental impact, it has been suggested that although small motorcycles produce fewer emissions and use less fuel, the advantages for large motorcycles are less clear-cut. MAG submits that cars stuck in heavy traffic produce zero miles to the gallon and produce high levels of pollutants. Compared to this, even a large motorcycle with a comparable fuel consumption to a car can continue to make progress even in the heaviest of traffic while making a far lower contribution to pollution levels.

I shall be be keeping an eye on this post over next few days.

Keep up the good work on your forum, its a good place 

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#31 01-09-07 20:26:35

kev elliott
Guest

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

This thread has started me thinking should all trainers of all vehicles do more to explain the needs of other road users? How many car trainers actually know what busses and coaches need to do? How many bikers realize the effect of sudden movements have on horses? I would hope that we could have a sensible discussion on this without it turning into all of one type of road user are the cause of all the problems and another never ever make mistakes.

Over to you ladies and gentlemen let the discussion begin smile

#32 02-09-07 12:46:45

zander
Verified Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 22-05-07
Posts: 15
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

so what about the inconsiderate car driver who sees you coming, traffic is going no where fast and the plonker moves his car over to stop you making progress, i drive a car and ride a bike (not at the same time) and will always make room for the biker who can weave through traffic....oh and what about inconsiderate car drivers who refuse to move over for the emergency services

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#33 02-09-07 13:41:29

kev elliott
Guest

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

Zander, we see car and loory drivers doing this all the time to cars and bikes. there is a road in cornwall- for those of you who know the area the westbound road into Dobwalls where there is 2 lanes leading into the village to prevent traffic backing up to the dual carrigeway when you try to use it for that as such as eggs are eggs a car or a lorry including petrol tankers I might add would position themselves to block the outside lane.

The result of these actions appear to be that the road has been reduced to one lane in each direction increasing congestion in this area. This would appear to validate the actions of those who blocked the lane so they will continue with their moving obstructions.

A simple merge in turn mentality needs to be encouraged to avoid this. If 2 lanes are provided they are there for a reason so why block them?

I suspect in some part the DSA is partly to blame here for the insistance that the left hand lane should always be used, perhaps encouraging more intelligent use of road space should be the order of the day. This DOES NOT mean use hard shoulders and overtaking on the left but rather when there is congestion use the lane of least resistance.
 

#34 02-09-07 17:17:50

zander
Verified Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 22-05-07
Posts: 15
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

dont know the cornwall area so can't comment on that particular road, just seems that the drivers using four wheels are more inconsiderate than of those using two

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#35 03-09-07 15:14:59

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

Slightly off the topic, but I thought i would mention it anyhow. I have a lovely female pupil who passed her driving test 5 years ago then went off to uni and never drove. Thanks to her partner she now clings on to anything she can find as a passenger and almost cannot tolerate being in any sort of vehicle  :cry:

On meeting this young lady for a course of refresher lessons i noticed how comfortable she seemed in the passenger seat compared to the visions i had of her from the description her partner gave.

When asked she replied with " Well I can see how observant you are, thats 3 bikers you spotted well in advance and kept an eye on to make sure they passed safely"

Ok fair comment. I then got to the bottom of it by asking her how that make her feel so much more comfortable. Answer was " Well partner pulled out on one biker and he slid across the bonnet, didn't break any bones thankgod, that wasn't as bad as the 2nd one though......... (second one!!  yikes)


The second was the charm to her, once again he pulled out on a biker at a junction this time the bikers legs came through the sunroof  yikes :x

How? No idea, I wasn't there so i have no idea if the junction was a very blind one, the biker could have been coming too fast for a driver to do anything about or the driver plain just wasn't making EFFECTIVE observations BUT regardless i feel for that poor girl. The chap is less than impressed since as i offered him a lesson on becoming more observant  neutral I wasn't joking either  neutral


Just thought i would add my recent experience with her as this thread reminded me  smile It has also made me concentrate that little extra on vulnerable road users using her story as a warning to pupils.

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#36 03-09-07 16:39:18

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

As a biker and a cyclist in the past I know that to stay alive we have to be far more observant or we won't go very far. I had numerous cars pull out on me at junctions, so far i had been able to read their actions by carefully observing where THEY were looking, not assuming they've seen me.
I think more driver / biker education would be a good thing. even by having a debate on here with the "bandits" will help...
Unfortunately people drive on assumptions (bikers too), which tend to result in crashes.

Your pupil appears to be far more on the ball then her partner  roll. I would want to be a fly on the wall after she comes back from lessons and he's driving.... lol


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
Abraham Maslow

21st Century Women http://www.loisontheloose.com/my-advent … /the-team/

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#37 03-09-07 16:48:47

Luchell
Verified Member
From: Salisbury
Registered: 12-06-07
Posts: 1,661

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

lol Lets just say i think she is getting her own back  wink Luckily no one was injured badly in either collision. What worries me is that it didn't just happen once it happened twice!!

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#38 05-09-07 22:54:06

Carl1
Member
Registered: 05-09-07
Posts: 4

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

I find it so hard to understand how so called 'professional' road users can have such a blinkered and narrow-minded view of the world yikes  I've done my fair share of mileage on bikes and in cars and people with the anti-bike attitude really get me down.

True story - biker is riding along an inner city 40 mph dual carriageway safely within the speed limit, wearing bright clothes and with lights on.  At the traffic lights he pulls up next to a middle-aged woman in a car who promptly opens her window to quiz the biker;
woman - "Tell me, why do you feel the need to ride with your light on?"
biker - "For safety love, so you can see me easier."
woman - "Well, I don't want to see you!"
yikes yikes yikes  With attitudes like this all bikers are doomed before we even get a chance to speed or ride dangerously.

I'm not trying to start, or continue even, a them & us war, but jeez people......remember there is balance to everything.

Some bikers speed, some don't.
Some cars speed, some don't.
Some BMWs/Volvos/tractors/buses actually use their indicators, some don't.
Some people overtake dangerously, some don't.
Etc.
Etc.
If you pull out of the way when I'm filtering I'll wave a thank you.  If you pull into my path on purpose then no sweat I'll just go around the inside seeing as you left some space there instead - anyway, thats not dangerous thats progressive.

Everyone has moments of stupidity when out on the road, its human nature, but for some they are a lifetime habit.  I just wish people could have a more open mind on the road and a little more respect for each other.

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#39 11-09-07 00:14:48

keith-adi
Verified Member
From: wirral
Registered: 19-07-06
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

guy near us tonight was a bit more progressive than most. estimated 120mph at the collision point. my partners colleague (a surgeon) gave first aid. couldnt do an awful lot with an in car first aid kit. he was 2 hrs late for his surgical list then cancelled, pretty much in shock. motorway was shut for hours while they collected the rider and his body parts.  and yes i have a bike licence before you ask
tragic waste.


We can all drive! some of us don't know it yet!     Smart Start School of Motoring
lessons available Wirral wide.

http://www.smartstart-wirral.com

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#40 12-12-07 16:39:02

Target
Verified Member
From: Winchmore Hill North London
Registered: 17-01-05
Posts: 5,695
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

I think the overall problem could be a bikers perception of what a bike is for.

Yes its another form of transport but is the bottom line not to beat the traffic.

So its on a looser from the start. Person buys bike to get around, get through traffic quicker and here in lies the problem.

The focus on the drive is about getting ahead and not neccessarly doing it safely, and with those Dazzling headlights make it even worse for the car drivers. wink


Approved Driving Instructor ADI(car)
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#41 12-12-07 16:55:04

PiperIan
Verified Member
From: Renfrewshire
Registered: 18-06-05
Posts: 768
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

Quote from TargetADI:

and with those Dazzling headlights make it even worse for the car drivers.

Got to disagree with you here Target.  I have a BMW R1150RT which is a bit big for weaving about the traffic but I have my dipped headlights on 24 hours regardless of weather and if it was allowed, I would have my headlights on during the day because there are so many morons out there who just dont see you.  I am nearly 17 stone, my bike has a full fairing and I wear a yellow fluorescent jacket and still as I approach a junction I see these numptys looking at me and yhey still drive out in front of me.

So I will continue to have dazzling headlights, its a small discomfort for car drivers which I feel is better than doing my superman impression over the roof of a car.


I'll never forget Wotzizname !!!

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#42 12-12-07 17:11:03

la.monikita
Verified Member
From: SE LONDON / KENT
Registered: 12-03-05
Posts: 3,064

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

All the new bikes from i think year 05 have the dipped headlights on all the time and no option to turn it off.
I don't ride with high beams on, like I would not drive with parking lights, simply because the oncoming traffic can't judge your distance, hence no point blinding anyone. Bike riders like car drivers come in all abilities and attitudes, but the bikers normally don't come out too well if they loose control.
Its nice to have a loud exhaust, you are being heard before being seen wink


"What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."
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#43 12-12-07 19:45:00

zander
Verified Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 22-05-07
Posts: 15
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

I think the problem with most supposed bikers is they try and copy the style and speed of track riders. Young guys/gals think they are invincible and will never die, the older more experienced rider think their riding skills are up to date so that will keep them out of trouble, problem is most of them have either come back to biking after a long absence or they have stood their bike over the winter months and their skills are either a bit rusty or none existant. Then you have the new changes to the bike test that every man and their dog is trying to beat. I as a bike instructor always give the students a pack of information after they have passed their test and included in this is an application for IAM, most of my students didnt know that they could join oranisations like these as most didnt know about them. The sensible riders have found the info I give out invaluable, but sad to say some dont.

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#44 23-12-07 17:46:36

bfb
Member
Registered: 23-12-07
Posts: 2

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

as with other bikers i'm a little concerned by the attitude of driving instructors in this matter

i drive as a service engineer approx 56,000 miles per year and bike is only used for pleasure

read the highway code regarding dipped headlights on bikes, and incidentally on military vehicles

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#45 04-01-08 11:03:31

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,697
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

Hii bfb, I'm from down under.
This is an interesting topic for me, can you provide a link to the highway code mentioned above (I did have a link but it has since disappeared)
Zipper


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
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#46 10-06-08 15:38:29

HereComesTrouble
Guest

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

Now then. I have read most of this thread and have to speak up.

I have been driving cars for 29 years and have not had a single accident. I have been riding bikes since I was 9, which is now 37 years. never had an accident. Am I special? Not really, just very observant, plan ahead a LONG way and never assume anything. I watched a video of advanced police motorcyling years ago and thought, hang on - that's exactly how I ride anyway!

NOT all bikers are nutters, suicidal and just on the edge. There are some very good ones indeed. I like to think I belong in that category.

One thing I would mention. The comradery between bikers is boundless. You just won't understand unless you are or have been a biker. Run out of petrol? No problem, first biker along will take you to the petrol station AND bring you back.


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#47 11-06-08 10:51:33

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,697
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

...NOT all bikers are nutters, suicidal and just on the edge.
There are some very good ones indeed. I like to think I belong in that category.e comradery between bikers is boundless.
You just won't understand unless you are or have been a biker. Run out of petrol? No problem, first biker along will take you to the petrol station AND bring you back...

There are two sides to the story...
Some years ago in Adelaide a rider came off his bike, while he was lying on the ground writhing in agony someone grabbed his mildly damaged bike and rode off on it, never to be seen again.
Not seen, but heard of(perhaps) - a few days later someone phoned up a radio talkback show claiming to be that person, and crowed about it.

Actually, the majoratory of riders are fairly sensible, perhaps not outrightly as sensible as HereComesTrouble (or as modest!) though  tongue !


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#48 11-06-08 19:57:06

samds
Verified Member
Registered: 21-01-08
Posts: 526
Website

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

If you want to see really crazy bikers, try the Paris Peripherique in rush hour.  Mental!


At University studying Humanities with Literature and Music.

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#49 11-06-08 21:18:30

pedigreemalc
Verified Member
From: derby
Registered: 20-04-08
Posts: 134

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

i was having a conversation with a hgv friend of mine who`s bought some 1000 cc bike and was out with a mate somewhere in Kent travelling on a single carriageway at 120+ mph when as he said "some numpty in a white van pulled out in front of me, i managed to anchor up in time but it sh*t me up"  i asked had you thought that the speed you were travelling might not be interpreted by the driver as 120+ even with a quick look right / left / right.
  he thought it was safe as it was a quiet road????
  he is also 60 yrs old so you would think he would have more sense
  as with many other threads i agree there are good and bad riders , drivers , careless , reckless careful conciderate etc. if they want to overtake i`ll make room better to have them in front ............
now  the worst kind of motorbike riders around derby as far as i`m concerned are the youngsters on the `rev-and-go` bikes

  as for the Paris periphrique being mental thats nothing to Morocco when your driving a hgv whilst being chased by 3 `rag heads` on a bike 1 trying to break the lock on the trailer so 1 can climb in to hide to try and get out the country


been there done that got the t`shirt

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#50 12-06-08 18:19:28

Shazzer
Member
From: Staffs
Registered: 27-01-08
Posts: 203

Re: Why are bikers so dangerous????

I went out for a drive with hubby this weekend and went along the A34 congleton to buxton road, apparently 2nd in the country for biker deaths. The speed limit has been reduced to 50mph throughout, and it gets closed in bad weather.
I was doing 35 approx, and on the way down hill round a right hand bend, when a bike was heading straight toward me overtaking uphill on a bend!! I broke hard and pulled left and they pulled in but it was tight and scary, especially as im still learning!

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