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#26 20-11-06 20:29:59

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Speed cameras

Oh god is that what capitals mean!

35 is definitely not okay i didnt say that.

Im afraid if all cameras were set at 35 the whole system would collapse!

It would be completely overloaded. Thats why they are normally set higher,the system cant cope with too many prosecutions.

The whole safety camera partnership is being turned on its head next year.

Nigel if you want to know why my view is as above pm me!


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
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ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
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20-11-06 20:29:59

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Re: Speed cameras




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#27 20-11-06 20:57:33

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Speed cameras

hi hector

the system cant cope with too many prosecutions.

In Lancashire the cameras are set at 35. people flashed at 35, 36 and 37 + possibly 38(I'm not certain) are offered a Speed Course instead of an SP30, providing they haven't already done one in the last 3 yrs,
we are currently up to course No 1270 this year.
That is approx 20,320 clients this year and 30,480 hrs of work for ADIs on the scheme.

The take up is approx 25% of eligible drivers so the other 61,000 people opted fro an SP30 £60 and 3pts.

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#28 20-11-06 21:19:01

hector
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From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Speed cameras

Hi Pegasus

Lancashire uses 200 ADI's is that right.

We take lancashire clients cause Lancashire cant keep up with demand!


EXCELSIOR TRAINING 
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ADI qualification/Check test training/Excelsior DSA Ordit/fleet courses
Johnny boy United 20 its coming son

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#29 20-11-06 22:38:19

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Speed cameras

Hi hector
I'm not sure about the total number of ADIs though I don't think it is as high as that.
I know that people from down south have often opted for Staffs as they don't then have to travel so far to do the course.

Now that courses are going national there may be fewer people travelling long distances as they may be able to do them nearer home.

I do think that more authorities should do the combined, group and on road, session though; there are a few that only do a group session. Personally I believe the onroad section is vital.

I won't comment on the unable to keep up with demand comment except to say that the office staff seem to be working flatout, and all us ADIs appreciate it.

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#30 20-11-06 22:57:47

kjs
Verified Member
From: Rossendale Lancashire
Registered: 20-05-06
Posts: 976
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Re: Speed cameras

The way I understand it, you have to go on the course in the area in which you were caught. Had people from Scotland attend courses in good old Lancs.

kjs

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#31 21-11-06 05:36:16

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Speed cameras

The way I understand it, you have to go on the course in the area in which you were caught. Had people from Scotland attend courses in good old Lancs.

kjs

No, that isn't a requirement.  Having said that, remember that only a few counties were doing the courses on a trial basis for quite a while.  It is only this year that the courses have been rolling out nationwide.  When I was involved in the Thames Valley version those caught at 35 or 36 were given a 3 hour presentation and no points / fine.  Those caught above that were given a 2 hour presentation combined with a 2 hour on road and points / fine were reduced to 3 pts and 60quid fine.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#32 21-11-06 06:22:14

hector
Verified Member
From: Manchester
Registered: 04-04-06
Posts: 2,097
Website

Re: Speed cameras

I agree Pegasus the on road session is vital

Staffs initialy viewed Lancs course and this was supposed to be the national model. So why theory only sessions are being allowed god knows.

Theory only isnt the way to go, they must be able to put it into practice. A bit like the HPT test!


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#33 29-11-06 21:51:20

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Speed cameras

The bottom line is that, the only deterent to speeding for most people, is the fear of getting caught.

Speeding on it's own has obvious dangers.  But the desire to speed is even worse.  If you are driving along at around the speed limit, there will be someone tail gating you trying to get past you or trying to make you go faster. 
If we had a situation where, if you broke the speed limit then you would get booked.  We would not have the boneheads tailgating us.

In South Wales the speeds at which you get booked are quite generous really.  The way they see it is, "If we book them for doing 33 mph in a 30mph area. There would be to many people clogging up the process with appeals.  If they are doing 41 then they gt booked. There can be no argument.


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
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    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
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#34 30-11-06 11:10:38

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: Speed cameras

...The bottom line is that, the only deterent to speeding for most people, is the fear of getting caught...
In South Wales the speeds at which you get booked are quite generous really.  The way they see it is, "If we book them for doing 33 mph in a 30mph area. There would be to many people clogging up the process with appeals.  If they are doing 41 then they gt booked. There can be no argument.

I like your post, comedrivewithme. Sounds like your Welsh police have a good "feel" of the situation too.


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
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#35 01-12-06 17:48:53

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Speed cameras

Yes but only in South Wales.  North Wales police are famous for their speed cameras.


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#36 01-12-06 23:56:38

Keith
Member
Registered: 22-11-06
Posts: 6

Re: Speed cameras

If theres one thing I've become aware of since I began training for Part 2, it is that our road signs are poor. Why can't the revenue from the speed cams go to improve signage, renew speed warnings and put out more of them will help raise awareness and take out the guesswork in some situations.

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#37 02-12-06 16:00:42

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Speed cameras

Your right about speed limit signs.  If the speed cameras are there to discourage you from speeding then there should always be a speed limit sign on the same post.


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#38 03-12-06 08:13:52

CarlatPUK
Verified Member
From: Worcestershire
Registered: 28-03-06
Posts: 323
Website

Re: Speed cameras

Last week a camera van and sometimes a marked patrol car has been on the grass Verge about 100 meteres from a roundabout on the A453 junction with M42, the posted limit is 70 and unless you are driving something tasty its highly unlikely you would be exceeding the limit after leaving the roundabout.
I reckon it was a number plate recognition exercise, any ideas peeps???


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#39 03-12-06 09:51:06

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: Speed cameras

The NT Police have a new intake of recruits. A few days ago I was driving along an 80km/h road and espied a big bunch (12 or more) of recruits standing on the shoulder, resplendent in khaki copper uniforms and green day-glo police vests. When I got within 200m they all swung around in unison and each pointed a speed camera at me - very disconcerting!
Even more disconcerting for the driver behind who was apparently speeding, in the RV mirror I could see him suddenly hit the brakes.
Lucky for me I didn't succumb to my first impulse which was to take both hands off the wheel and raise them in a gesture of submission.




Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
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#40 03-12-06 17:11:09

pegasus
Verified Member
From: north west
Registered: 25-02-05
Posts: 3,297

Re: Speed cameras

Hi Zipper
Were they cameras or handheld radar guns?
We used to have a lot of the latter in Lancashire.
One copper narrowly avoided being run down by a pupil when he aimed one at us. The pupil had only recently returned to the mainland after a tour in Ulster and his first thought was "I haven't got a gun, so run the b****y terrorist down", fortunately he remembered where he was in time.

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#41 03-12-06 22:46:21

Zipper
Verified Member
From: Darwin, Northern Territory Aus
Registered: 20-08-04
Posts: 2,690
Website

Re: Speed cameras

Handeheld radar guns.

Had a young man from Ireland a few years back, saw a police car in the mirror, shouted "guarda" and floored it!


Zipper ("G'Day Mate!")
I'm not 65! I'm only $59.95+tax
www.drivingnt.com

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#42 04-12-06 12:52:18

dog
Verified Member
Registered: 29-10-06
Posts: 813

Re: Speed cameras

One copper narrowly avoided being run down by a pupil when he aimed one at us. The pupil had only recently returned to the mainland after a tour in Ulster and his first thought was "I haven't got a gun, so run the b****y terrorist down", fortunately he remembered where he was in time.

Ahaha classic!

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#43 22-12-06 01:05:20

den676
Verified Member
From: Nottingham
Registered: 18-02-06
Posts: 463

Re: Speed cameras

Motorcycle News have an online petition running at the moment because

a) Gatso's have apparently never been tested on bikes despite many peeps having been proved not to have been speeding using the lines in the road

b) Many camera partnerships are refusing to provide the 2nd photo unless it's in court meaning that bikers have to risk 6 points/maximum fine (£1000?)

Anyone who wants to sign it go to

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SpeedingFines/

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#44 22-12-06 06:59:20

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Speed cameras

Provided the lines prove me innocent, I really couldn't give a toss. 

comedrivewithme wrote:

Your right about speed limit signs.  If the speed cameras are there to discourage you from speeding then there should always be a speed limit sign on the same post

Why?  Unless some nonentity has nicked the signs it's pretty obvious what the speed limit is anyway.  Why go to the extra cost?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#45 22-12-06 21:01:35

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Speed cameras

Because the cameras are a deterant.  What could be more obvious than speed limit sign on a speed camera?


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#46 23-12-06 12:32:04

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Speed cameras

Because the cameras are a deterant.  What could be more obvious than speed limit sign on a speed camera?

How about a string of lamposts along the street?

Don't forget everyone that gets caught is a volunteer!  If they have chosen to add to the coffers who are we to stop them?

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#47 24-12-06 17:09:56

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Speed cameras

How often do we see a string of lamp posts along a road and 40mph signs a good half mile apart.  Not everyone knows their highway code and the RTA as well as they should. 
Where I'm living, there are two very similar roads, visually they are almost identical.  One has a 40mph limit.   The other has 30mph.  It is amazing, how many locals think, the Maindy Road has a 40mph speed limit. 

One of my pass plus pupils boy friend, drove past a speed camera van at 40 mph on The Maindy road, confident that he was not speeding.  He only realised his mistake when he got the fixed penalty notice in the post.  I agree people should know the rules better than they do, but if they don't.  What's the harm in reminding them?

Why?  Unless some nonentity has nicked the signs it's pretty obvious what the speed limit is anyway.  Why go to the extra cost?

If they feel agreeved by the speeding ticket, they'll go and vanalise the camera.  It's probably cheaper to put a 30 mph sign.  The whole point of the speed camera being there is to get people to stay within the speed limit.  If having a 30mph sign on the post stops a few people speeding there, then it has done it's job.


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

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#48 26-12-06 21:56:36

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: Speed cameras

....One of my pass plus pupils boy friend, drove past a speed camera van at 40 mph on The Maindy road, confident that he was not speeding.  He only realised his mistake when he got the fixed penalty notice in the post.

Oh, my heart bleeds for him!  Basically, if he can't be bothered to read the signs, then TOUGH!  No sympathy!

comedrivewithme wrote:

  I agree people should know the rules better than they do, but if they don't.  What's the harm in reminding them?

So, where do you stop with reminders?  Perhaps we should have someone at the start of the road stopping the traffic and telling the person too?  Or maybe have someone sit in with them to remind them that there is a big yellow camera up ahead and they need to slow down.

Why?  Unless some nonentity has nicked the signs it's pretty obvious what the speed limit is anyway.  Why go to the extra cost?

If they feel agreeved by the speeding ticket, they'll go and vanalise the camera.  It's probably cheaper to put a 30 mph sign.  The whole point of the speed camera being there is to get people to stay within the speed limit.  If having a 30mph sign on the post stops a few people speeding there, then it has done it's job.

And if they go and vandalise the camera they should pay for its replacement!

If you start putting some 30mph repeater signs where they aren't legally required there is a danger of setting some sort of precedent and people will get away with speeding in areas that don't have the repeater signs!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#49 27-12-06 16:41:13

comedrivewithme
Verified Member
From: Treorchy, Rhondda, South Wales
Registered: 28-11-06
Posts: 674
Website

Re: Speed cameras

And if they go and vandalise the camera they should pay for its replacement!

I totally agree, but the whole point of the camera being there is to discourage people from speeding.  When they've knocked a kid off his bike, there is no satisfaction in knowing they will have a speeding ticket as well.   


Give yourself independenc, learn to drive!
www.Comedrivewithme.com
    Treorchy, Rhondda.

I see friends shaking hands, saying
"how do you do". 
They're really saying
"I love you" (Louie Armstrong)

Offline

#50 13-03-07 10:41:53

Roid
Member
Registered: 12-03-07
Posts: 9

Re: Speed cameras

People don't object to the idea of speed cameras, if they are for road safety. Unfortunately, they are NOT for road safety. All they serve to do is satisfy Gordon Brown, and the Uk road statistics.

SPEED KILLS! they say, but press them on their definition of "speeding" and they say "it's exceeding the speed limit". But surely it is driving at a speed too fast for the conditions that kills?

Speed doesn't kill, poor driving does.

People don't like them because they have no discretion; EVERYBODY caught doing 10% + 2mph or more ove the speed limit gets a ticket, no exceptions! To a certain extent I agree with this in built up areas in day time, but in the middle of the night?

The system really started to take the bleep, though, when they started prosecuting people for 68mph in NSL Single Carriageway, and 79mph on the motorway. NOBODY can claim that this helps road safety. Everywhere else in Europe, the limit on motorways is 80mph.

This is taking responsibility away from drivers and dumbing them down. Why is the number on a stick always the only safe speed? Surely the speed should be set based on conditions?

People used to moan about traffic police "harrassing" the motorist. As a result we have replaced the vast majority of traffpol with automatic money-printing machines. As soon as the government realised just how easy it was to take money from people, there was no going back. When you are in a position to set the enforcement goalposts as you see fit, there's really no losing.

We now have a situation where people are being told "you're only a safe driver if you don't exceed the speed limit". I think I'll end with a quote from the Gloucestershire Safety Camera Partnership..... "No driver can make a judgement about any road that is more sound than the speed limit set" Nuff said neutral

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