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#101 14-02-05 14:39:47

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: advanced driving

Nigel,

Thank you for your kind offer of explaining your views in a simpler way, it's a shame that you still don't seem to be able to provide a concrete answer to my comments or to those posted just above . . . perhaps you could explain them again, because your 'views' are very different to my experience and certainly don't seem to agree with the DSA marking forms.

My view is crystal clear. The part 2 test is marked in exactly the same way as the learner test. It is longer merely because the SE has more time to test you. In other words the length of the test has absolutely no relevance at all. We are supposed to teach learner drivers safe driving for life. I don't remember seeing any DSA publication promoting safe driving for a 30 minute driving test. If you have, please let us all know where it is.

As for the number of maneouvres, I will repeat what I said earlier. I have been involved in training quite a number of ADI's through part 2 around the UK and I've never seen one of those tests where every DSA maneouvre was asked for. I have no doubt that others may have different story's to tell, but I will merely base my views on my experience, as we all do.

So, what specifically makes part 2 advanced? Your comment of 'more' advanced is very interesting indeed. It implies a generalisation that you don't seem able to quantify with specifics. So, once again Nigel, why is part 2 advanced? Is it advanced, or just 'more' advanced? How much more advanced than advanced is 'more' advanced?

As for your comment of Joe public not being aware of the different types of advanced driving . . . does that make it ok for ADI's with no additional training to advertise advanced courses? I know that it's legal, but does it make it correct from your viewpoint? Your advice to your delegates to speak to ROSPA or the IAM is to be commended. Shame that a great many ADI's don't folow your example.

I have always said that I agree that part 2 is harder to pass than an L test. I am aware that SE's are more critical when examining ADI's. Quite rightly so, I firmly believe that to be able to teach something you should be of a higher standard in your chosen area than your pupils have to attain. But the fact remains that SE's use exactly the same marking procedures for a part 2 as they do for an 'L' test. My view is that this does not, under any circumstances, make it advanced.

As for ADI's offering advanced driving when their own driving is poor. Yes, I have plenty of examples. As I've said numerous times, I feel it's a shame that they can't be prosecuted for it. Because thay can, unfortunately, legally do it, anyone with common sense will realise why I cannot post examples on here.

However, my phone numbers are on my web site, as is my e-mail address.  If you want to ring me for a chat I will give you some very specific examples that you may find quite shocking.

You say that you are quite happy with your own driving and that you would be confident with a re test. I have no reason to doubt you. After all, by coming onto a forum such as this to offer your views you are setting yourself apart from the vast majority of ADI's who don't.

I have no doubt at all that the few hundred or so ADI's who show the effort to take part in these forums will also reflect that effort in their own skills. Unfortunately, the number of ADI's contributing to this forum is a tiny drop in a vast ocean of ADI's who had very poor training for part 2 and have done no training since passing it. Many of them would be very concerned indeed about having their own driving re tested. 

I make no appologies for stating that ADI training in the UK is woefully inadequate. I have been involved with re training a number of ADI's who have spent thousands with large ORDIT companies and been left completely confused at part 3. A great many problems at part 3 can be specifically put down to extremely poor training at part 2.

You may find it as incredible as I do that a number of ADI's offering to teach advanced driving don't actually know the difference between approaching and emerging. Amazing.

Once again, I find it shameful that an ADI can pass part 2, never ever take another test or assessment, and then advertise to teach advanced driving. Pathetic.

regards,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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14-02-05 14:39:47

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Re: advanced driving



#102 14-02-05 21:14:13

buzdriver
Guest

Re: advanced driving

we who give you the athority to condem adis and saying part 2 is not advanced. it is, making progress is diffrent than learner drivers test also there is motorway section, have you read the brief on part two. if adis are pathetic to advertise advanced driving because they have not done any more advanced driving then what makes you so special. teaching advanced driving is a peace of cake any one can do it . ps adis are perfectly legal to do this same cant be said about rospa and iam.


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#103 14-02-05 21:25:36

Gizmotime
Administrator
From: Bolton Lancashire
Registered: 05-04-04
Posts: 1,963

Re: advanced driving

buzdriver wrote:

teaching advanced driving is a peace of cake any one can do it . ps adis are perfectly legal to do this same cant be said about rospa and iam.

You just can't resist can you Lee   roll

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#104 14-02-05 22:06:40

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: advanced driving

Dashdriving, I dont know why you bother is like banging your head against a brick wall with some of them,but if it's any consolation I know where your coming from.
                                          Stephen

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#105 14-02-05 22:10:23

Graham
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Hi Nigel,
An interesting point about Joe Public. I'm absolutely certain that they don't know the different types of advanced driving awards that exist. But doesn't that mask the issue? Shouldn't the pupil have an implied trust in the instructor when they respond to the advert?

In my other life, I teach English as a foreign language. Greater hourly rate and less overheads!! I have only once been asked about my qualifications by a potential student.

I know of a teacher who gained his qualification at a weekend get-together over a BBQ! His students aren't aware and he does a fair job. But isn't he being economical with the truth? I couldn't do that. Could you? Now I'm certainly not suggesting that a Part 2 test is quite like that, but you get the idea?

My point is that you have to be honest with yourself when self employed. Sure it's legal for an ADI to advertise their services. But deep down, can you put your hand on your heart and say 'I can teach advanced driving skills' having only put yourself through a Part 2 test?

#106 14-02-05 22:18:07

Stephen7738
Member
From: Warrington
Registered: 12-10-04
Posts: 305

Re: advanced driving

Well said Graham.
Stephen

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#107 14-02-05 23:43:19

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: advanced driving

Graham,

I couldn't put my view into words better than that!

There are some extremely good ADI's, who go on to improve their skills and can pass on all their knowledge to others. There are many others who don't. Your analogy is very enlightening.

I've posted elsewhere that I have trained an ADI who passed part 2 without a single lesson from an ADI. Rare, granted, but it happened. Not a single session from an ADI. He came to me for part 3 and I had one hell of a job in preparing him. His knowledge of driving was almost non existent and I had to work hard to get him through. Never mind, that's what I was being paid to do! However, we did spend a LOT of time on advanced observation and hazard awareness training.

So much for part 2 being 'advanced'. I have never heard of anyone passing the ROSPA or IAM test with no training at all.

Guess what, Lee? He can now advertise to teach advanced driving courses to poor 'Joe public', whom I'm sure would be a bit miffed if they realised his experience.

Take a look at all of the entries on this and other forums from PDI's asking for advice because they have failed part 2, failed part 3, or simply feel that their training is inadequate. They regularly ask whether they should seek other training because they don't feel adequately prepared, and clearly don't feel that they have received the training they've paid for. They do this because they recognise that their needs have not been met.

I would wholeheartedly support those people and offer them the very best advice that I can. I wish . . . oh, how I wish . . . that ORDIT had teeth. Or even sharp gums, to bite or viciously suck, those woefully poor training companies that regularly leave trainees feeling like that.

Guess what? When those same PDI's manage to pass the part 3, they can immediately advertise to 'Joe public' that they can provide advanced driving courses as well. Like I said Lee, pathetic and shamefull.

I would be ashamed if one of my PDI's came on here asking for advice for further training. I would never proclaim to be the best. I most certainly am not . . . but I do care, and I do do my best.

As it stands, nothing can be done, and in a few years time I'm sure that other people will be on here, moaning like me, about ADI standards and wishing that things could change. There will also be ADI's, who've somehow manged to get through, bleating on about how passing part 2 is the be all and end all of advanced driving tests. Laughable.

Take a look at the pass rates for ADI's. Does the pitifully poor pass rate for ADI's mean that the tests are so advanced and hard to pass?

NO, it certainly does not!!

One of the main reasons is because the training is inadequate. I simply refuse to accept that such a large number of people are incapable of passing the ADI tests.

Not a single one of the ADI tests is hard. With good training and a lot of dedicated hard work from the trainee, all of the tests are within the capabilities of most people. Lets face it, just about all PDI's are fired with the enthusiasm for learning and gaining new skills. The ADI training industry in general just seems to grind them down.

I know it's off subject a little . . . but one of my other pet hates is this unbelievable attitude that the ADI tests, especially part 3 and sometimes part 2, are so incredibly difficult to pass and so very advanced.

Rubbish!! The only people who would propogate such negative nonsense are ADI's who managed to scrape through without really understanding what they were doing, or ADI training companies who are quite happy to have you fail and then say "well, we told you it was hard" . . .

I refuse to be a part of this. I have 3 PDI's at present and I am happy to firmly stick my colours to the mast and state to the world that I will do my level best to get them through. No one can guarantee that they will pass, but I simply cannot allow myself to see them go for a test without my full support, knowing that they are ready and capable of success.

The thought of having people in like sheep, paying a fortune for not very much training, shattering the dreams of a few along the way, makes me feel a little sick.

Mind you, I suppose the ones who were lucky enough to get through could pass on their remarkable skills to 'Joe public' by teaching them advanced driving. Or am I just being cynical?

I do believe I am.

regards,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#108 14-02-05 23:47:39

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: advanced driving

Lee,

Having just read your entry above . . . that's exactly what I'm on about. Thank you for such a wonderful example.

"Teaching advanced driving is a peice of cake, anyone can do it"

Terrific. The future of advanced driving is well and truly safe with you, Lee.

regards,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

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#109 15-02-05 06:44:50

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: advanced driving

Dashdriving wrote:

I have always said that I agree that part 2 is harder to pass than an L test. I am aware that SE's are more critical when examining ADI's. Quite rightly so, I firmly believe that to be able to teach something you should be of a higher standard in your chosen area than your pupils have to attain. But the fact remains that SE's use exactly the same marking procedures for a part 2 as they do for an 'L' test. My view is that this does not, under any circumstances, make it advanced.

Sorry, Dash, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.  The fact that the ADI part 2 is harder to pass than the 'L' test does, in my view, make it more advanced than the 'L'  test.

Graham wrote:

Hi Nigel,
An interesting point about Joe Public. I'm absolutely certain that they don't know the different types of advanced driving awards that exist. But doesn't that mask the issue? Shouldn't the pupil have an implied trust in the instructor when they respond to the advert?

One would like to think so,  but does this happen in other walks of life?  There will always be the rogues in life, we just have to watch out for them.

Graham wrote:

In my other life, I teach English as a foreign language. Greater hourly rate and less overheads!! I have only once been asked about my qualifications by a potential student.

I know of a teacher who gained his qualification at a weekend get-together over a BBQ! His students aren't aware and he does a fair job. But isn't he being economical with the truth? I couldn't do that. Could you? Now I'm certainly not suggesting that a Part 2 test is quite like that, but you get the idea?

Is he being economical with the truth?  Should we also start telling people how long we took to pass part 2?  Is someone who took longer to train going to be better than someone who managed it all quite quickly?  Surely he had to pass a similar exam to you to qualify?

Graham wrote:

My point is that you have to be honest with yourself when self employed. Sure it's legal for an ADI to advertise their services. But deep down, can you put your hand on your heart and say 'I can teach advanced driving skills' having only put yourself through a Part 2 test?

  I can, BUT
Who says I have only done a part 2 test?  I have taken and passed the IAM test, the RoADA test (graded Gold) and the RoADA Diploma. 

That doesn't change my view that the part 2 is more advanced than the standard 'L' test though.  The IAM and RoADA tests are different in that  they also require advanced techniques so making them advanced in a different way!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#110 15-02-05 12:02:31

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: advanced driving

Nigel,

That's fine . . . we'll agree to disagree. But you still haven't replied to a single point put to you with a specific answer.

Sorry, Dash, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. The fact that the ADI part 2 is harder to pass than the 'L' test does, in my view, make it more advanced than the 'L' test.

Why is it 'more' advanced? How much more advanced than advanced is 'more' advanced? On what evidence do you base your generalised answer?

Fact: part 2 is marked the same as an 'L' test and is based on the 'L' test

Fact: I have never, ever, seen a part 2 test where all the DSA maneouvres were asked for

Fact: The length of the 'L' test has no relevance whatsoever. Safe driving for life does not mean safe driving for 30 minutes

Fact: Learners should be taught all the maneouvres to test standard, as the examiner can ask for any maneouvre on any test. The only reason for there being less maneouvres is the time restriction on the examiner

Fact: The 'L' test is the standard that every single person in the country, with no additional driver training whatsoever, should be able to acheive. It is the 'base' line, not something out of the reach of 'joe public'

Fact: as an ADI you should, quite rightly, be able to perform the 'L' test to a remarkably high standard. That is what part 2 is. A test based firmly and squarely on the 'L' test. Nothing more. It is harder because you are allowed less errors. So what? The education boards quite often vary the pass marks for various exams. Would that turn an O level pass into a degree? No, because it's the same test, based on the same subject, tested in exactly the same way.

One would like to think so, but does this happen in other walks of life? There will always be the rogues in life, we just have to watch out for them.

So that makes it ok then, does it Nigel?

You have shown a great deal of committment by submitting yourself for the other advanced tests, as I have. You have gained, and will gain, new skills that you can pass on to your pupils, and they can really learn a lot more from you than they can by simply getting better at the 'L' test standard.

What do you think 'joe public' will learn from those ADI's who, through no fault of their own, manage to get through part 2 with the bearest minimum of training required, and then go on to advertise advanced courses?

Would you like to know about the ADI's who applied for a job to deliver advanced courses? They were to be employed on a full time basis and had to be prepared for extra advanced training. Would you believe me if I told you that the initial selection test was conducted by a DSA examiner, 30 minutes duration, 15 minor errors accepted, and had only one maneouvre due to time restrictions?

Would you believe me if I told you that he vast majority of them failed the selection test? A large number of experienced ADI's failed a test based absolutely on the 'L' test and was in fact even easier, because of the restrictions. You probably wouldn't believe me, but it's completely true.

Yet these ADI's were advertising their skills in teaching advanced driving techniques. Completely amazing.

If you had seen the standard of driving (absolutely and completely appalling) of several of the ADI's I've tested for advanced courses, you may just change your opinions slightly.

(Lee, before you even ask me "NO!!" I cannot give you specifics of this test, where or when it was held, or which performance car manufacturer it was organised by. To do so would be a breach of the confidence the company have in me and I won't do it. It would also cause a great deal of embarrasment for the ADI's concerned. Having said that, I've no doubt you'll quote me and ask me anyway)

As I've said previously, there are a lot of ADI's who go out of their way to obtain new skills, sharpen up their old ones and to constantly learn new techniques. I have no doubts whatsoever that the vast, vast majority of ADI's who come onto these forums are exactly like that.

I'm certain that the efforts they show in advising each other on here are reflected completely in their pride in gaining new knowledge and skills in their work as highly professional ADI's.

I have learned an awful lot more from the very professional ADI's on here than I have from anywhere else. The enthusiasm for teaching driving, learning about driving and just driving! is shown in almost every post on almost every topic on these forums.

But please, Nigel . . . don't let that fool you. There are also a very great many ADI's out there who will sit back and do nothing to improve. They'll advertise their advanced driving sessions and teach nothing much at all. Watch out for the flying sticky stuff, because we all just might end up getting tarred with the same brush.

So, yes, I agree with you . . . we will have to agree to disagree.

Keep some room in your diary though, Nigel . . . If the compulsary re testing for part 2 does ever come into play, you may just find yourself very busy indeed.

I've PM'd you, by the way.

regards,


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

Offline


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#111 15-02-05 13:41:19

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: advanced driving

dashdriving.com wrote:

....
Fact: part 2 is marked the same as an 'L' test and is based on the 'L' test

That is not in dispute.  What we don't agree on is that on part 2 you have to maintain a higher standard (only 6 errors) over an extended period.  I believe that makes the part 2 a higher level than the standard 'L' test, you don't.

dashdriving.com wrote:

Fact: I have never, ever, seen a part 2 test where all the DSA maneouvres were asked for

I had to do tir, left rev right rev, I cannot now remember whether I had to do both parking manouvres, I don't think I had to do an emergency stop.

dashdriving.com wrote:

Fact: The length of the 'L' test has no relevance whatsoever. Safe driving for life does not mean safe driving for 30 minutes

The length of time is very relevant, you need to be at a higher level to maintain a standard for 60 or 90 minutes than you do to maintain it for 30 minutes.
I don't think anyone on here has suggested that safe driving for life does mean safe driving for 30 minutes.

dashdriving.com wrote:

Fact: Learners should be taught all the maneouvres to test standard, as the examiner can ask for any maneouvre on any test. The only reason for there being less maneouvres is the time restriction on the examiner

Of course they should be taught all manouvres to test standard.  There are some instructors out there that don't teach emergency stop until a couple of days before the test!  I have just taken on a pupil who had recently failed her test.  She hasn't been taken out of Swindon over all her lessons!  I prefer to take my pupils to different towns wherever time permits.

dashdriving.com wrote:

Fact: The 'L' test is the standard that every single person in the country, with no additional driver training whatsoever, should be able to acheive. It is the 'base' line, not something out of the reach of 'joe public'

agreed

dashdriving.com wrote:

Fact: as an ADI you should, quite rightly, be able to perform the 'L' test to a remarkably high standard. That is what part 2 is. A test based firmly and squarely on the 'L' test. Nothing more. It is harder because you are allowed less errors. So what? The education boards quite often vary the pass marks for various exams. Would that turn an O level pass into a degree? No, because it's the same test, based on the same subject, tested in exactly the same way.

Sorry this analogy is flawed and does not, in any way, equate to comparing the 'L' test with part 2!

dashdriving.com wrote:

<snip>
What do you think 'joe public' will learn from those ADI's who, through no fault of their own, manage to get through part 2 with the bearest minimum of training required, and then go on to advertise advanced courses?

I still don't think how much training they required to pass is really relevant.  Does it really equate that person A who had 2 weeks of training is going to be a better driver than person B who only needed 3 days training?  Person B could have been at a higher standard to start with.

dashdriving.com wrote:

Would you like to know about the ADI's who applied for a job to deliver advanced courses? They were to be employed on a full time basis and had to be prepared for extra advanced training. Would you believe me if I told you that the initial selection test was conducted by a DSA examiner, 30 minutes duration, 15 minor errors accepted, and had only one maneouvre due to time restrictions?

Would you believe me if I told you that he vast majority of them failed the selection test? A large number of experienced ADI's failed a test based absolutely on the 'L' test and was in fact even easier, because of the restrictions. You probably wouldn't believe me, but it's completely true.

Yet these ADI's were advertising their skills in teaching advanced driving techniques. Completely amazing.

Now, I am in total agreement with you.  If they were advertising advanced driving TECHNIQUES with no extra qualifications other than part 2 then no they shouldn't be allowed to do it!

dashdriving.com wrote:

<snip>

I've PM'd you, by the way.

regards,

I pm'd you back.

I would expect CPD when it is implemented to include something to test our driving ability, though probably not in the same format as part 2 currently is.

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#112 15-02-05 15:25:39

Graham
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Hi Nigel

First of all I must apologise for seeming to suggest that you personally had not anything other than pass your Part 2, prior to teaching advanced skills.

When I mentioned 'you' in the final paragraph, it was a general 'you'. Much like the Royal 'We'.  But not as posh!

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you hadn't gained further qualifications and I'm sorry if this upset you. It wasn't meant to refer to you, but to any ADI who hadn't done anything to improve their skills before placing adverts that offer advanced training.

My teacher colleague who completed his qualification in a weekend has a certificate that is less than worthless. It's not recognised by anyone, but his students don't know that! Which was the point I was trying to make. The students have put their faith in his ability and I feel it's misplaced. Hence him being economical with the truth. My teaching qualification took considerably longer!!

Anyway, you and Dash have worn out a couple of keyboards between you on this thread and I've enjoyed putting my twopennywoth in. It seems to have run its course now, unless there's any point that hasn't been covered wink

I look forward to sharing a pint or three with you all at the get together.

#113 15-02-05 16:03:07

dashdriving.com
Member
From: Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Hu
Registered: 29-11-04
Posts: 148
Website

Re: advanced driving

Graham,

Again, couldn't agree with you more! I'm sure that the get together will happen and I'm sure that we'll carry on arguing!

At the end of it all, we are just looking at the world through different eyes, with different experiences and different opinions. No one's opinion is any less valued than any one else's and I accept completely that Nigel has his views. I don't agree with him . . . but hey, I can't afford another keyboard!!!

I think it could be time for that beer. Now, what to argue about next . . .

Cheers everyone,

Dave H


Dave Hartley
ADI Trainer for Dash driving

www.dashdriving.com

you never do anything wrong,
you just find new ways of not doing it right.

Offline

#114 15-02-05 16:28:56

Anonymous
Guest

Re: advanced driving

I have scanned through this thread and the thing that stuck in my mind was that on Part 2 it is suggested that not all of the manoeuvres are asked for.  Well in Southampton I was asked to do the lot.

Started with a bay park in the car park.  Then out into the road and was asked to do TITR, Left Reverse, Right Reverse, Reverse/Parallel Park and an Emergency or Controlled stop.

Was out for well over the hour and received two minors.  Also I thoroughly enjoyed it.  big_smile

It may not be advanced in the true sense of the word, taking driving skills to a higher level, but it is still a test of one's driving ability and to be able to concentrate whilst under scrutiny for more than an hour without a break; toilet, drink or smoke.

Wessex

#115 17-02-05 22:29:02

ADI349
Verified Member
From: East Yorkshire
Registered: 24-01-05
Posts: 193

Re: advanced driving

Hello All
I finally got to the end of this thread and I've forgotten how it all started.
All I will say that during any training either 'L' test , standard/advanced police training, students will follow the advice (mostly).  When they have sucessfully completed the training some will revert to bad habits regardless of how much they have been told.  You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink> How many get points for speeding and the like despite how they are advised.

wink Ps349


If you only do what you've always done, you will only achieve what you've always achieved

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#116 18-02-05 21:28:23

buzdriver
Guest

Re: advanced driving

what a load of twoddly that some of you are coming out with lol  lol  lol  lol people fail there driving test mainly through lack of experince and pressure as well you know. advanced driver training is easy compared to learners why because the person can already drive.

#117 18-02-05 22:32:00

ExAdiNigel
Member
From: Plymouth, Devon
Registered: 13-12-04
Posts: 4,739

Re: advanced driving

Don't really agree with you there buzdriver.  Teaching learners is different but I wouldn't say it is more difficult.  A learner is usually a blank canvas, so you have an easier time putting your view & style into the learners brain.  An experienced driver has probably picked up many bad habits and it can be harder to change a bad habit than it can be to put a good habit onto someone who hasn't done it before.

I wouldn't say one is harder than the other, just different!

Nigel


National Standards Cycling Instructor, Ex Adi

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#118 18-02-05 23:20:28

ADI349
Verified Member
From: East Yorkshire
Registered: 24-01-05
Posts: 193

Re: advanced driving

Hi Buzdriver
They think they can

:cry:


If you only do what you've always done, you will only achieve what you've always achieved

Offline

#119 19-02-05 20:09:33

buzdriver
Guest

Re: advanced driving

well ive trained enough for part two and they are better than learners im talking from personal experince. the avrage part two would be about 12hrs tuition where as learners is more like 45 hrs. .


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#120 26-02-05 22:19:38

Graham10
Member
Registered: 17-02-05
Posts: 185

Re: advanced driving

crr003 block changing for L training came in, in the mid to late 70s.

for the most part, the safe way round the bend, is the centre of your lane,
as off; this line, the road surface is often broken up or has loss chippings giving less grip.

And sometimes I do get the pupils to move out on Lh bends.

As for signals the good old double standard agency, is moving towards only signals if they help.
but I feel this may being going too far

graham

Offline


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#121 27-02-05 18:37:23

crr003
Guest

Re: advanced driving

Graham10 wrote:

crr003 block changing for L training came in, in the mid to late 70s.

for the most part, the safe way round the bend, is the centre of your lane,
as off; this line, the road surface is often broken up or has loss chippings giving less grip.

And sometimes I do get the pupils to move out on Lh bends.

As for signals the good old double standard agency, is moving towards only signals if they help.
but I feel this may being going too far

graham

Wow!  I'd forgotten I'd asked anything!

Thanks for replying  smile

Roger

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