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#1 26-06-06 08:44:50

paulwall
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From: Leicestershire
Registered: 03-01-05
Posts: 8

pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Hello. my pt 2 due in mid July. (2nd attempt   sad ) . taking it at Wigston in Leicester.
Couple of things. Pork Pie island . This is apparently a spiral island, not vey large. When folowing the lanes as drawn on the road you are directed to exit onto a dual carriageway into the right hand lane. should i, if safe move into the left lane whilst still on the (smallish,not much time for checks etc) roundabout or exit in the right hand lane and then move over when on the d.c.

2nd question. (sorry) in general, if a roundabout has 3 entry lanes, is the left hand one always 'left turn only'

Hope its okay to chuck question in as they pop into my head.
Cheers all.

Paul     smile


Hmmmmm.....

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26-06-06 08:44:50

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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?



#2 26-06-06 10:09:50

sv1000s
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Hello.   Re exiting the roundabout into right hand lane of d/c - is that maybe because the traffic from the roundabout into left lane of d/c is normally busy?  Without local knowledge, can't say for sure but I'd imagine there may be a good reason for the marking directing you that way - hopefully someone else can help for sure.

Re the 3 lane approach to roundabout. I'd say that, unless roadmarkings or signs direct otherwise, left or middle lane for straight ahead and left for ... left!  might there be a road sign on the approach to clarify.

All the best for the test.

Alex.

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#3 26-06-06 10:39:40

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

You must never change lane while on the roundabout so you should exit using the right lane of the dc and when safe to do so move into the left lane.

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#4 09-07-06 09:56:28

CarlatPUK
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Whaaaat? "you should exit using the Right lane and then move to the left"?????

I don't believe I just read that Doc!!

As for changing lane on a roundabout how do you exit after entering one to turn right unless it spirals? and even if it spirals your exit could require a lane change.

The ambiguous HC states "use the most appropriate lane" when approaching a roundabout.

In the absence of directional road markings lane 1 of 3 is normally the safest, lane 2 could be used to expedite progress if there is a queue of traffic waiting to turn left, the danger then is a lack of effective observations to the nearside for the leading vehicle in lane 1 moving into the roundabout intending to also go ahead.


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#5 09-07-06 11:49:15

sipin
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Have to agree with CarlatPUK in the area he teaches there is a spiral roundabout where if you are going round to the right you have to change lanes in the roundabout or go off in the wrong direction


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#6 09-07-06 15:04:41

Tomcat
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

2nd question. (sorry) in general, if a roundabout has 3 entry lanes, is the left hand one always 'left turn only'

How many lanes on the roundabout?

If there are only 2 then the left hand lane is for turning left only.  wink

#7 09-07-06 15:44:42

paulwall
Member
From: Leicestershire
Registered: 03-01-05
Posts: 8

Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

theres 3entry lanes with the only indication of which lanes to use being arrows on the road which are barely visible.(typical of most of Leicesters test routes). going around the roundabout there are 3 lanes. marked as 2 for straight on and the right most as right turn. the left lane disappears into a short dual carriageway.

Also. where a rroundabout is large enough to accomodate 2 lanes around it and some of the entrys are just about large enough for 2 lanes, do i treat it as a 2 lane roundabout even though all the entry/ exit roads are single carriageway and no paint markings indicate 2 lans. e.g. a car turning left is stopped waiting. should i pull up alongside if going straight on or right. or , a car apparently going straight on, should i pull up on its left/right if im turning or would this count as poor lane discipline.

Also !!!! neutral with an island with wide roads but no lines painted, do i treat it as one single, but , wide lane or should i keep well left when going straight on or just follow the easiest path which seems like cutting lanes. in other words, do i drive it as if there where lines painted or just straight line it ??


Hmmmmm.....

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#8 09-07-06 16:06:50

Tomcat
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

neutral Just going for a lie down.  neutral lol lol lol lol

Have you got a photo or diagram?  :? :?

TC (terribly confused)  lol lol lol lol lol

#9 09-07-06 18:40:59

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

If the lane Paul chooses leads to the right lane of a dual carriageway then he should remain in that lane until exit. These roundabouts are disigned as such for a reason. Where is the traffic coming from to end up in the left lane of the dc? do you think they would be safe if the lane change took place on the roundabout? what should Paul do if the left lane is occupied?

Two weeks ago i had a pupil fail his driving test for exiting in the left lane where his lane was exiting into the right lane. We had covered it before his test but he panicked in the moment

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#10 10-07-06 07:34:50

paulwall
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From: Leicestershire
Registered: 03-01-05
Posts: 8

Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Sorry about the long texts, its hard to put thoughts down in a readable order that make sense to everybody else. Docs answer makes sense when you consider other traffic could be using lanes unseen by me and it does definately guide you to the offside lane when exiting. it feels right to follow the lines and change when youve left the island.

Strange how some islands work like this put others require you to cross paint in order to exit.

CONFUSSSSSSED. (not dot com) :?


Hmmmmm.....

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#11 10-07-06 12:00:29

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

CarlatPUK

Obviously on a normal roundabout you will have to cross lane but that is not the situation explained by Paul. So what you are saying (you too sipin) is that in the scenario that Paul describes you would/do teach to cross lane on exit? Do you both think that is safe? Have you experience of a pupil doing this and passing or at least not receiving a serious or dangerous fault while on test? 

If my advice is wrong then it would result in a minor fault being recorded under position normal driving [1 of my faults on my own part 2] but if you are wrong then the result could be a serious or dangerous fault being recorded as well as putting the driver and others at risk of injury.

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#12 10-07-06 12:07:34

luchell
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Doc I know where you are coming from, if the pupil here has gotten themselves in a position where they have to exit onto the right hand lane of the dual they must then move over to the left if safe. If not SERIOUS fault. Its happened to two of my pupils who used the incorrect lane on entry they should aim to exit in the left hand lane of the dual BUT they MUST NOT cross over lanes or that would involve a serious as well. the two pupils even being told they must move over stayed in the right hand lane of the dual when they should have moved over once they had left the roundabout.

That is the situation for our three spiral roundabouts here as they come off onto duals.

If it a 'normal' r'bout then of course you switch to the left before exit as normal.



#13 10-07-06 12:19:18

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Perfect post luchell that demonstrates exactly as i have said, thank you. The situation that Paul describes is that he chose the correct lane but that it leads off to the right lane of the dc. I am assuming that the left lane is for the cars coming from the exit before to allow progress to what i can only guess is the busier of the flows and the opportunity to move over to the left doesn't present itself until you have exited the roundabout.

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#14 10-07-06 12:28:21

luchell
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Its diffucult when you do not know the roundabout in question. All i know is what i have stated above. that is how it HAS to be done here and it makes perfect sense. That is how the roundabouts are actually set out.

For instance... Coming from one r'bout to the next pupil is on a dual carriageway examiners direction is "follow the road ahead 2nd exit to the DUAL CARRIAGEWAY" Thats the hint. Two lanes go there, we drive on the left select the left hand lane out of the two that are marked straight on to exit on the left lane of the dual.

So imagine pupil gets confused changes to the right hand lane BEFORE the roundabout they now HAVE to exit onto the right hand lane of the dual OR they are cutting traffic up from the left hand lane going ahead.

We also have r'bouts where you MUST exit in the right hand lane due to a SOLID white line, once the solid white line is over they must safely move to the left asap.

I think you just have to take each to its own and work out which is the appropriate lane to exit in for the circumstances.

#15 10-07-06 12:35:37

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

So the lane you chose on a spiral is the lane you remain in until after you have made your exit otherwise a serious fault will be recorded.

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#16 10-07-06 12:43:14

luchell
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Yes smile smile

#17 10-07-06 12:46:26

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

I am so glad we got that clear, wouldn't want to be advising drivers to do dangerous manoeuvres. I don't think my conscience could take the guilt.

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#18 10-07-06 17:55:27

sipin
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Registered: 26-03-06
Posts: 232

Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

You all have to remember In driving there are many different variations, nothing is in black or white just various shades of grey

For example using Doc's reply on a spiral roundabout (M5 Junction 6) approaching from Droitwich the DE asks the pupil to take the road leading to the right it's the 4th exit sign posted towards Warndon the A4440. On entering the roundabout in the right hand lane you have to position into the spiral lane marked to the M5 South if the pupil does not change lanes (using MSM) they will end up going onto the Motorway and have the test terminated. Yet comming from the opposite direction on the same roundabout if you change lanes you will get a serious.

So really it all depends on the circumstances at the time


Even when things go wrong you can learn from them

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#19 10-07-06 19:12:10

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

If the M5 exit is the 5th exit then i'd say you are choosing the wrong lane on the roundabout. If the M5 is the 3rd exit then you have to adopt the next lane as it appears to your right and remain in that lane to exit. This change to the right is not a lane change as you are joining the lane as it appears so there can't be anyone to your right that would cause a danger. If any of the above applies to your roundabout then i'd say this is nothing like the situation described by Paul, to which my response is entirely appropriate.

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#20 10-07-06 22:42:33

sipin
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Yes Doc your responce is entirely appropriate for most situations, but not the roundabout I was trying to describing


Even when things go wrong you can learn from them

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#21 10-07-06 23:53:56

Doc
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

I accept your point on differences, which would make contacting the SE to ask directly, the better option for Paul to take.

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#22 11-07-06 07:42:45

sipin
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Re: pt 2 soon. some questions as i think of them if nobody minds ?

Whole heartedly agree with you Doc


Even when things go wrong you can learn from them

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