Position for Corners.

[?]

During my time as a Fleet Trainer I have come across people who in previous training courses have ALLEGEDLY been advised to, position to the right of the centre line on approach to left hand bends. I am not talking about open viewed double / series of bends here but left handers, some with very limited views on narrow roads.  
When we have talked about this they have said they have been told it improves their vision. I understand the arguement but all too often they use this positioning in inappropriate places.
Any opinions as to the problems / benefits of such positioning.  
  

[tony adi]

Not something I'd do or advocate others to do for, what should be, obvious reasons. I know where it comes from and have (no doubt as you have yourself) heard all the arguments for and against, and I'm in the against camp.

[timmanwaringadi]

It was always suggested that this came from the IAM/RoSPA camp, but both organisations have recently made it clear that there should be no crossing of the centre line for view.

I'd suggest that the previous trainers have been ex-police drivers, for whom there are good reasons for this.

As a H&S at work issue I would definitely not advise it - can you imagine being called in as a witness for the defense ("yes, I did say that, but I didn't mean to do it when there was a truck coming.....")?

Benefits - view and stability at speed when used correctly.

Downsides - unless the driver really is extremely competent and can assess the safety very accurately it can be quite incredibly dangerous. At work there should be no need for the kind of speed where this becomes a benefit.

[Lynne]

Benefits - view and stability at speed when used correctly.

Downsides - unless the driver really is extremely competent and can assess the safety very accurately it can be quite incredibly dangerous. At work there should be no need for the kind of speed where this becomes a benefit.

I'm with Tim  and that's basically what we were taught on the Dip course.

[David1108]

Well I am a advanced driver of a car and if we move close to the centre line without moving across it we open up the view to see more.  Also if we move to the left near to the kerb then we again open up the view.  But I also know it will work in a lorry but can't say for sure.

[adiNigel]

You may need to be a little careful here David.  You appear to be coming across a little on the patronising side.  The advantage of view has already been mentioned, but you need to realise that there are also disadvantages to this action as mentioned by Tim, Lynne & others.

Nigel

[jonnmedds]

I've never been a big fan of moving to the centre line for left bends and to the kerb for right bends as I find drivers tend to take it a step too far. Last week I was out with a company driver who is also an IAM member.

On one left corner he was so close to the centre line that he had to take evasive action to avoid an artic who cut the white line(the bend was so tight the HGV had no choice)

On right bends he was so close to the kerb that we were hitting the drain grids and driving over all of the rubbish that gets pushed over to the kerb.

His reasoning was, it was an advanced technique to improve his visibility and thus his safety

The problem I find is that drivers missunderstand the advise they are given by trainers and observers and as Tim say's there's no way we as fleet trainers can advise our clients to folow this technique in case they cause an accident.

Does positioning really make a big difference to our visibility?

Jon

[David1108]

Well I know it works for cars but not get too know to the kerb or the the centre line.  But yes he may need to get over as he will see more road.  I love using this way of going round bands as it opens up the view.  I don't know it a bus or lorry can do the same as I can.  It would be good to find out. 

[Stephen7738]

Perhaps it not that they misunderstand the advice,but perhaps its how it is explained to them and that it should only be done if the appropriate circumstances are right.  The problem that I find with most people when showing this is that you show them one scenario and they think that it can be done all the time in similar scenarios which is not always the case and it should be demonstrated over and over in as many different scenarios as possible not just on half a day or a full day.
Stephen 

[Lynne]

Perhaps it not that they misunderstand the advice,but perhaps its how it is explained to them and that it should only be done if the appropriate circumstances are right.  The problem that I find with most people when showing this is that you show them one scenario and they think that it can be done all the time in similar scenarios which is not always the case and it should be demonstrated over and over in as many different scenarios as possible not just on half a day or a full day.
Stephen 

Definitely and surely each corner will be taken on it's own merits each and every time you approach it.  Any number of situations could mean a different approach to the same corner.

[timmanwaringadi]

David, I'll apologise if my comments seem insensitive or in any way dampen your enthusiasm for the forum, but....

....simply repeating a simplistic view of what IAM suggest, after these basics have already been covered amply will not win you any friends.

Please read through the whole thread before posting and avoid repeating things that the previous posters have said. If you have new information, please add it or if you have a question, please post it.

Also, as you are working towards becoming an observer I would suggest that you pay close attention to your communication. It may be that your spoken communication is excellent, however your written communication could do with a little more clarity.

If you have something important to say, it may be worth creating a new thread, rather than dredging up ones from ancient history. This one isn't terribly old, but I've seen another that you found from several years ago.

[paulcook]

For me, the whole "roadcraft" approach to positioning for left and right hand bends belongs with   (a) emergency response vehicles  and (b) males of varying ages who need to grow up a wee bit.

Whilst many males wouldn't admit it, driving is only one step up from playing sport.  This approach to dealing with bends elevates them in their own minds as somehow more skilful.  Males love this.  Because many males are inherently immature.

I know one advanced driver who regularly cuts a straight line through multi-lane roundabouts when it's quiet, and just loves to tell me it's because "the quickest, safest way etc etc".  As far as I'm concerned, this driver is like many, in that he's actually playing sport, i.e. I'd bet it's the same parts of the brain that are stimulated as when he's playing his Wi or E-box.

I'll conclude my rant by suggesting that people of that persuasion should go join the police.  Alternatively, slow down a bit and come to terms with the fact that driving is actually very serious and potentially dangerous. 

Phew.  Haven't had a good blow out like that in ages.  Feel great now.